Anyone for Aya?

[phalanx]

Are there any Ayahuasca drinkers still around? I am dismayed at how infrequently it is mentioned in this forum. The place seems to be overrun with cactus, salvia and weed fans. Anyone else keeping the Aya flame alive here?

[polly ester]

i love aya, but it's a bitch to get it to work. i mean, you spend all day cutting up the shit, boiling the shit, straining the shit, boiling down the shit and then you could still get a dud. disapointing
the best trips i have had have been on aya, and when i made it out of chacruna and caapii it tasted like slightly bitter tea.
but pot and shrooms work every time.

[phalanx]

I understand your frustrations, Polly ester, it has happened to me many a time. The brewing problems, possible dangers, bad taste and nausea all conspire to put people off. I recommend all beginners use rue and mimosa because they are cheaper and easier to make. If you get a dud it isnt so bad.
Try going back to rue and mimosa for a while, then vine and mimosa. There is loads of valuable experiences and learning to be had with those combos. I don't care that they aren't traditional. Rue and mimosa are very valuable plants in their own right and shouldn't be seen as second-class ingredients. I started with vine and leaves yet learned plenty from rue and mimosa later on which in turn helped me with brewing vine and leaves.
Hopefully sucess with them may give you back some confidence and lead you back to vine and leaves, or maybe you will be happy enough with the analogues. Good luck, bro!

[rocketman]

Phalanx, how about a recipe? If you know a good tek for rue and mhrb please feel free to post it. Do you feel that rue and mhrb have the same healing attributes as the vine and leaf?

[phalanx]

Rue and mimosa can be very healing and therapeutic, in my experience. Vine gives and extra kick to the visuals but rue can be quite profound in its own way.
Ultra simple and reliable recipie for beginners:
1. Grind rue in coffee grinder
2. hammer some mimosa to soften it, break it up by hand, grind like above.
3. Sieve mimosa through a fine sieve (wire coffee filter is ideal)
4. Mix rue powder with some water, drink the lot
5. Mix mimosa powder with water, drink the lot
rue dose: 1.5-2g , mimosa 8-10g (pre-sieve weight). Drink slowly to lessen chance of puking.

[marsofold]

I've never done ayahuasca, but from what I've read the way to do it with the least nausea is to use 140mg harmaline freebase (extracted from rue or caapi) mixed with 70mg DMT freebase. The phosphate salt is supposedly the least nausating, so the above dual mixture may be mixed into phosphoric acid (Coca-cola) and drank. MJB sells pre-extracted harmaline freebase for $10/gram. The DMT can be made at home...

[~Hippie3]

there are legal ramifications that prevent many from making such extractions.
i myself still prefer the caapi vine and viridis leaves,
but i often toss in a bit of rue just be be sure i get enough
MAOI activity, and often some chaliponga [Diplopterys cabrerana] too
again i like to use multiple kinds/sources in case any one ingredient is weak.

[I_am_me]

The maoi restraints and time restraints are hard to fit into my schedule. I'd love to kick up a good brew but I've got to order the stuff, find time to brew it and then finally find time to fast and drink it. Heh. Maybe enough posts like this though and you'll inspire me.

[marsofold]

Hippie3, how much Viridis leaf weight do you typically use for a single dose of ayahuasca if you don't put any chaliponga in it?

[AlienTouch]

Mosly done aya from Rue and Mimosa extracxt in capsules. Next intent is from capi n virdis.

Oh man, the vomiting.

[~Hippie3]

Originally Posted by marsofold

Hippie3, how much Viridis leaf weight do you typically use for a single dose of ayahuasca if you don't put any chaliponga in it?

at least 30 g of viridis leaves in one dose
but i never brew a one-dose batch,
minimum of 2 'doses' at a time brewed,
again to offset possibility of low strength ingredients
that way if one is weak i can double dose

[phalanx]

In my experience, the best way to minimise nausea is to get the maoi dose right first. It is very easy to take too much rue which will cause serious puking. Second is to drink the stuff very slowly rather than gulp it down.

Beginners might be better starting with 5-6 g mimosa. It is hard stuff to get used to. Learning to drink it without hurling takes practise. Then there may be some trouble getting the trip to kick in, and dealing with transient nausea and puking later in the trip. Also panic and dehydration, and preparing your self and environment for tripping. All these basics have to be learned before you can work with aya properly. Trips will be highly variable until then.

Its like growing shrooms. You need practice and experience before you get consistent results. Luckily the results are well worth all the trouble. Unfortunately you won't realise that until you get your first proper trip. You have to trust the people like me who recommend it that it is the best stuff ever.

[skullfarmer]

Originally Posted by polly ester

i love aya, but it's a bitch to get it to work. i mean, you spend all day cutting up the shit, boiling the shit, straining the shit, boiling down the shit and then you could still get a dud. disapointing

not to mention fasting for a day or 2 and gettin a dud!!!!!

[phalanx]

There is no need to fast for any more than a few hours before dosing. It is best to eat only light food earlier in the day that is quickly digested. Then the stomach is fairly empty when dosing.

[AlienTouch]

well said Phalanx

[polly ester]

i also made aya some time back, i boiled 20g's mimosa 70g's caapi and 30g's chacruna, i boiled it, drained x3 then let it decant in the fridge, next day i poured some warm clear, flavorless jello into the jar. i then drank the mixture.
it didnt' taste bad at all. like tea and cream. no nausea, no vomiting, no trip.


oh well, ONWARD MEN!!

[phalanx]

In my experience, vine sediment is VERY potent and discarding it is a SERIOUS mistake. I bet if you had consumed the sediment with the liquid, you would have had your ass blown off.

I used the gelatine method once and it worked brilliantly. High potency and fairly easy to drink. But I only added it to the hot jurema brew at the start of reduction.

Get rue and mimosa working properly first. Preparing a potent dose is only the first step of several in getting a strong trip.

[~Hippie3]

Originally Posted by phalanx

There is no need to fast for any more than a few hours before dosing...

yep.
i like to dose in the AM,
before breaking fast.
but really
fasting is not required at all,
just observe a few minor diet restrictions
for a few hours after splash-down
and you're good.

[phalanx]

Drinkers who are here (Ayahuasca Club @ Mycotopia Botanicals forum):

Me
Hippie3
Poly ester
Alien Touch

Drinkers who used to be here (or maybe still are):

Redmonk
Carpo4
Tehutiroo
Llama

There may be a few others but its still not many.

[skullfarmer]

Originally Posted by phalanx

There is no need to fast for any more than a few hours before dosing. It is best to eat only light food earlier in the day that is quickly digested. Then the stomach is fairly empty when dosing.

i'm talking about fasting from the meth.hehehe
(skullfarmer goes in search of light bulb)

[elixir]

I've desired to experience it for awhile now but don't have the finances to explore it. I definitely will try it when I get the chance though. I need to find some good forests though. Hell if I'm gonna journey in an urban enviroment (damn sirens!).

[phalanx]

Originally Posted by skullfarmer

i'm talking about fasting from the meth.hehehe
(skullfarmer goes in search of light bulb)

Ayahuasca could easily help you to get away from that terrible stuff before it ruins you.

[grimblegrumble]

I have not partaken of Aya in some time.
I have some nice plants going though, for the future.

Ayahuasca could easily help you to get away from that terrible stuff before it ruins you.

How very true phalanx, how very true.

A couple of years ago Aya helped to show me how terrible my diet/lifestyle was, and how poorly I've treated my body in the past.
I have since lost about 50lbs. am fit, trim and eat mostly organic/all natural.
I am a much happier person now.
I am not saying that Aya will help you lose wieght, but that it helped me, No, told me, that the best thing I could do for myself was to change my diet/lifestyle and start taking care of myself.
I listened.

[phalanx]

Ayahuasca also told me to make some dietary changes which resulted in me gradually losing 15lbs without excercise, and to stop drinking tap water in any form. I use a water distilling machine now and can see the crud in the bottom of it that I used to be drinking. Ugh!

Welcome to the Ayahuasca Club, Grimblegrumble! Glad to hear Ayahuasca has worked so well for you. Which plants are you growing? I would like to grow some but I think my climate is too cold.

Another drinker I forgot to mention is DukeX. I don't know where he is now.

[~Hippie3]

dunno what's up with duke,
he hasn't turned up since halloween

[skullfarmer]

Originally Posted by phalanx

Ayahuasca could easily help you to get away from that terrible stuff before it ruins you.

im kind of playin,although the bitch(crystal) has been hanging round my place lately.im not hooked,i just like moving faster than usual sometimes.zoomzoomzoom

[Redmonk]

Hey Phalanx , Hippie , Grimble , everyone ! I haven't been over here for awhile , just lurking occasionally . I attended the Shamanism Conference in Iquitos this past summer . This provided me with my first opportunity to drink Ayahuasca in a group setting , with experienced shamans , in the jungle . This was an incredible experience ........but doing it in the comfort of your own home has it's merits also ! Once you go off the deep end , it really doesn't matter where your physical body rests.......you're in Ayahuasca's hands now . I hope you're all doing well with your brews and uncovering the healing and wisdom that you seek . See you here or in hyperspace !

[phalanx]

Hi Redmonk! Your journey to Iquitos sounds cool. I would like to go sometime if I have the money. I agree that you can't beat tripping at home for convenience and the sense of security. I'd be a bit nervous dosing in a jungle far from home, surrounded by strangers. I'd need some time to settle into the new environment first and get to know some fellow drinkers.

In what ways did drinking with a group in the jungle change the journey, compared to dosing at home?

[Redmonk]

"In what ways did drinking with a group in the jungle change the journey, compared to dosing at home?"

On the plus side , I felt more comfortable drinking strong and large doses . I felt that if I got into a tough spot , the shaman would assist me . This happened the first night I drank in Iquitos . I left the circle and walked a little ways into the jungle to vomit in private . I was soon brought to my knees and began wretching violently in the weeds . The visions were accelerating pretty rapidly , along with the nausea , as I lay curled in the fetal position . Now , my hearing is pretty bad ( Doc says I need a hearing aid in both ears ) . I was far out of earshot of the group back in the clearing . Suddenly I could hear the shaman's singing icaro very clearly in my ears . It was as if he were right next to me . I felt somewhat better and made my way back to the others .
The three differant shaman's that I drank with all sang the most beautiful icaros on and off throughout the night . This really provided a type of bridge from this physical reality out into the visionary realms . It also provided a kind of lifeline back to the mothership , so to speak . It was also good to meet and drink with many of the folks over at Ayahuasca.com , so I didn't feel I was with all complete strangers . It was alot of fun meeting and chatting with Alan Shoemaker ( who always took the time to sit down and swap amazing ayahuasca tales with everyone ) . Another positive was being able to commune with Ayahuasca in her native homeland :the Amazon jungle . The jungle comes alive at night with a cacaphony of bizarre , other-worldly sounds eminating from her depths . A very ancient , mystical place .
The down side ? I found that I didn't enjoy drinking with large groups of people . I've always journeyed alone.... utilizing dark , quiet spaces to launch off from . Some of the groups were upwards of 30 people . It seemed as though someone was always contributing some auditory intrusion into the
session : channeled messages , singing , personal revelations , etc. ( Many times these sounds woud grab my attention , reel me back in , and cause the visions to stop ) . Sometimes my visions appear as if on the surface of a still pond . An interuption acts as a ripple that erases it . Sometimes they reform , sometimes not . I think that for me , small and respectful groups of no more than a handful of people would be best .
On a comical note : At home , I brew the two components seperately and drink each one slowly , sip by sip , sucking on a lemon drop in between sips . The whole procedure of imbibing the brew takes about one hour . I guess I just assumed that in Iquitos we would all be handed our cups of brew and then drink them at our own rate . Wrong ! The first night I panicked a bit when I saw that we were to approach the shaman , one by one , drink the whole glass down , and go back to our seats in the circle . Everyone seemed to be doing it easily , no problem ! I thought "Oh shit....I'm going to expose myself as a complete novice when I gag and throw up all over the shaman !!!" . Somehow though , with all the peer pressure , I managed to hold my own .

[phalanx]

Originally Posted by Redmonk

I think that for me , small and respectful groups of no more than a handful of people would be best .

I would be the same. Thanks for the nice story. Its interesting that you were able to gulp down the brew and keep it down even though you prefer to drink slowly.

[polly ester]

the only time i have ever vomited on aya was when i used mimosa.

[~Hippie3]

i got deathly ill once,
because i was trying to follow some advice
about eating buttered toast to kick up the trip a notch-
bad mistake for me.
now i'm back to just sipping apple juice to keep my blood sugar right
but nothing else.

[phalanx]

There are lots of little tricks to reduce nausea. Jurema takes practice. Heavy stuff, but that's why its so magnificent.

Errr....sorry Hippie3. Looks like one man's meat is literally another man's poison. Toast works great for me. It only boosts the trip if it has been impeded for some reason. Maybe your trips roll along fine without any help, so toast may not make any difference to intensity. Mine often stall for various reasons.

Is buttered toast bad with MAOI's or somethin? When you say deathly ill, what do you mean, Hip?

[~Hippie3]

i just vomited almost immediately after eating it,
and felt like crap.
got nasty bitter bile, taste in my mouth.

[phalanx]

I have puked several times after eating toast. I always wait until the brew has been full absorbed and I am feeling little or no nausea at all, before eating the toast. Then I am fine, although I may feel a little queasy afterwards.

Eating toast when feeling nauseous will just cause puking, although that in itself has made trips kick in for me. It can work great but doesnt guarantee anything. Its just a little trick that works sometimes, depending on the situation. Ayahuasca is such tricky stuff!

I regularly puke right up from my upper intestine, not just the stomach. It's no biggie. :-)

[neeb]

HELLOW fellow drinkers what i have found for the problem refering to the dud i like to cook it in a crook pot over night and i only use the vine rue is great just when i venture the iner wonder world i like the vine it might be placibo but it has more charecter or soal

what do u guys think of the difent vines i use the hawhiian strain found by terannce mckeena but they have white vine yelllow black red is there realy a diferences this is to the people that have tried it.

[phalanx]

I think vine has better visuals than rue, but the alleged different effects from different types of vine is baloney IMO. Each piece of vine is unique.

[~Hippie3]

i heard darker = older but i'm not entirely convinced it's any better
the best trips have been with white for me

[neeb]

where is the best place to get youer ayu herbs i usely bring mine back up from south america where my field work takes me once in a wile. last time i was there i stayed an extra month so i can spend more time with the natives and the stuff i tried with this tribe was was very strong the kind when you lay there and just slip in and out of it for houres, o those illusion those illusions were so great i cryed at emtion ties to the illusion was way to buttifull and way to ugley it was my iner self and i was seeing it truthfuly

[phalanx]

When buying vines, I prefer them to be big and old because they grind better than young stuff. I also prefer them to be whole (not powdered or shredded) and to have the bark still on. I don't pay much attention to the type anymore.

I have some of the young Hawaiian red stuff. It grinds poorly. I don't think I ever actually used it in a brew.

Neeb, your experience in south america sounds cool. The only source of aya herbs that can be mentioned here is the site sponsor Bouncing Bear. I never used them myself yet.

[phalanx]

Oh yeah, welcome to the Ayahuasca Club, Neeb!!!!!

[Psychenaut]

I'm also a religious drinker of Aya, I do it about 4 times a year. . normally on the solstice and equenox.. not for any "reason". . just a good "timming" mech. I'll do it if I feel it's in order at other times too.

I also started with Rue and still use it due to the higher harmaline consentration. . I like to mix Phalaris, mimosa and even some mushrooms now and then in the mix. When it comes to nasea, I've noticed if I do a dose that is too low and I don't puke, the physical discomfort is worse. As long as I have a nice strong dose and I puke, (normally it's an easy puke to, not one that makes you heave and heave) the trip becomes much more heady because I'm not constantly being reminded of my body being pissed off and I can go on out there in the wonderfull universe of possibility ..

I'm actually looking for a live cutting or rooted plant of a good accappi vine, same with psychotria, I've yet to get my hands ona knowen good cutting/prerooted plant. So if anyone has such a plant they could help me out with cuttings I'd love to work out a deal. . or if they know of a good online place in the Americas where I could get Yage ^ Ayahuasca plants, I would be forever in your debt. . or atleast a week . hehehe

ps. LIve Iboga is another one I'm on the search for, I love ethnobotany so havin these to nuture and work in sybiosis with would be great!

[phalanx]

Hi Psychenaut, I love the feeling of being totally cleaned out after a good puke at the right time, and free to trip without worring about puking on the floor or nausea causing stress and uggy visuals. It can greatly help relaxation and enjoyment.

[chem42]

A friend of mine has done Ayahuscha, but from his description of the experience it was pretty weak compared to what I have read on Erowid.

[phalanx]

Even a weak trip can be very insightful and therapeutic.

[reverend trips]

I have 100 grams of mhrb and some san pedro, that I won in a mycotopia raffle months ago. If I remember correctly Dukex said mhrb came from you phalanx. I have yet to try it out, and maybe over the holidays I'll be able to find time to put a batch together and try it out. I'll follow the directions you posted above. If I may burden you with a couple of questions, what is rue? and where would I find it? What sort of food, drugs or whatever should a person avoid when doing aya, and for how long?
Thanks!

[phalanx]

Hi RT, DukeX must have mixed me up with someone else. Syrian Rue is peganum harmala seeds which contain maoi to protect the dmt in the mimosa from being destroyed in the body. Bouncing bear should carry it.

See http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-m04.html for advice on using reversible maois. It refers to the synthetic moclobemide. The higher the maoi dose, the more careful you should be. There is a chance you may be abnormally sensitive to intereactions so be careful in the beginning and then slowly test your boundaries. I've yet to find mine!

[~Hippie3]

i have a shitload of rue on hand, i'll sell ya some, trips, if you want...

[reverend trips]

Thanks for the link and advice phalanx!

i have a shitload of rue on hand, i'll sell ya some, trips, if you want...

Very kind of you Hip.
pm'ing