Alcoholic Ayahuasca

[phalanx]

I am coming down from a very strong trip, way more potent than I expected.

I finely ground 25g of chacruna. I put the leaf powder in a glass. I added 35ml of white rum (Bacardi, 40% alchol). I mixed it up well with a spoon. The quantity of rum was barely enough to moisten the leaf powder thoroughly. I left it to soak at room temperature for 8 hours.

I chewed and swallowed one 150mg tablet of moclobemide and washed it down with a bit of water (very bitter). One hour later I added 100ml purified water to the leaf powder paste, gave it a good stir and drank the lot.

The trip had plenty of ayahuasca character and was very therapeutic. I felt myself changing into a feline. I had some wonderful deep relaxation, feeling tensions being released in my body and soul. "Feline relaxation therapy", heh.

I will use this leaf preparation method from now on. I already made a few regular brews with this batch of leaf and tonight's trip was the strongest!

Next time I will use vine. Potent as the trip was, it lacked much of the magic and shine of true ayahuasca. My next trip using vine with this leaf prep method will surely knock my socks off!!!

Tonight I have proved to myself that this alcholic leaf prep method works brilliantly, and that vine is more than a simple maoi. I read speculations that tetrahydroharmine is a weak serotonin re-uptake inhibitor. Maybe that is what makes the difference. I don't want to totally knock moclobemide though. It gave me a super trip tonight. But vine has that extra magic something.......

[phalanx]

The rum was actually 37.5% alchol.

This method reminds me of when I discovered the perlite humidification tek here at Mycotopia. I had a load of grief using more complicated methods. I thought "Could it really be that simple and effective?" I tried it and it worked brilliantly, way better than all the other methods.

BTW, I changed my name from Leprachaun to Phalanx and deleted my old account, in case anyone is wondering who I am.

Is it okay to drink alcohol, with MAOI's?

[phalanx]

Yes because alchol isn't an amine and I'm still alive and well, and had no ill effects during the trip. I retched a few times when drinking the pv, but after that the nausea was minor and transient.

It would be safest to only use pure drinks like white rum or vodka rather than wine or beer. The alchol buzz seemed to wear off about an hour after drinking the leaf, before the main trip started.

Simple is best!!!

[phalanx]

I tried this method again but used 30g vine. It was quite potent. I saw some wonderful heavy gold imagery, including a lake full of golden gondolas. I also learned about desert survival.

As expected, the caapi gave the gold and extra atmosphere which the moclobemide lacked, even though the caapi dose was weaker. I went to bed at 3am last night, but with the moc it was 5.30am despite dosing at the same time and using the same batch and quantity of leaves prepared the exact same way. I will up my caapi dose to 50g-60g next time.

Another problem was that the trip came in several waves instead of one big tsunami. It seemed to be due to eating 2 slices of toast with butter instead of one. This made me thirsty and had to keep drinking water to keep it flowing. I will only eat 1 slice in future and use olive oil instead. The salt in the butter causes thirst. Maybe my thirst is what brought on the desert survival visions.

I couldn't get deeply involved in the visions because they would fade before fully developing and another wave would come with different themes.

Is there not a native people who use mimosa and massive amounts of powerfull white rum in NE South America?

"I couldn't get deeply involved in the visions because they would fade before fully developing and another wave would come with different themes."

I have been there. It is like watching tv with someone that changes the channel of the tv every 2 minutes..

(Message edited by roo on January 19, 2005)

good thing my chacruna bush is starting to shoot new leafs and branches YAY!!, i just got it about a week ago.

[phalanx]

Is there not a native people who use mimosa and massive amounts of powerfull white rum in NE South America?
Really? First I heard about it. Did read of natives letting the brew stand for days so it started to ferment.

have been there. It is like watching tv with someone that changes the channel of the tv every 2 minutes..

LOL, yeah, its a bummer
I got the squirts as well, which is unusual. I had some amusement park visuals at the very beginning, of people on cart rides/rollercoaster type stuff. Shanon says that is common!

Also, I felt myself turning into a blue octopus/sea urchin thing with many legs which was too weird to describe.

In a trip a couple of weeks ago, I had a vivid experience of turning into a camel!!! It felt so silly and strange I had trouble rolling with it. AYA IS COOL!!!

(Message edited by phalanx on January 19, 2005)

do you get nausea when just using the chacruna leaves ?

"Also, I felt myself turning into a blue octopus/sea urchin thing with many legs which was too weird to describe.

In a trip a couple of weeks ago, I had a vivid experience of turning into a camel!!! It felt so silly and strange I had trouble rolling with it. AYA IS COOL!!!"

Thats what I like also! I once had a vision of sorts like this I turned into a snake. I was wiggeling around the house on the floor. Just slithering around. It was so real, I became the snake, I felt like the snake, I was the snake.

I just go with it when stuff like this happens. It is definatly a wonderfull experiance.

woah i wanna be a mongoose.

[phalanx]

Nausea can be quite bad with chacruna brewed the regular way, but when using this alcholic method it is a lot easier to drink and the nausea afterwards is between minimal and zero.

It seems to be because the dmt/tannins or whatever are still sitting inside the leaf when you consume, so you can't taste it so much to make you nauseous when drinking. Also, it doesn't irritate the stomach for apparently the same reason. It passes quietly through to the small intestine to be absorbed there. This minimises post-consumption nausea.

It still tastes bad and makes me retch, but not half as much as a regular brew. It is the only way I would consume mimosa if I had to again.

awesome i have getting sick i'm gonna try your method first buddy boy

[phalanx]

Thats what I like also! I once had a vision of sorts like this I turned into a snake. I was wiggeling around the house on the floor. Just slithering around. It was so real, I became the snake, I felt like the snake, I was the snake.

LOL, I love hearing about people having similar experiences to my own. It is so DAMN real! Especially when you start physically acting out.


awesome i have getting sick i'm gonna try your method first buddy boy

Kewl! Good luck. I would love to hear someone else's experience with this method. I ground the leaf in 2 batches of 30 seconds each in an electric coffee grinder. It is important to grind well. If you are using caapi, use a good quantity and be sure to grind it down well too, before brewing. Don't filter too fine and drink the sediment. A medium-fine kitchen sieve is all you need.

Wait an hour between dosing the caapi and the pv for best results. You may need to eat a small amount of fatty food about 1 to 1.5 hours after drinking the chacruna to make the trip kick in fully. Drink 200-300ml water with it to help digestion.

(Message edited by phalanx on January 19, 2005)

interesting thanks for the specs...

[phalanx]

I had another powerful trip with moclobemide and this leaf prep. Blew my ass off. The central message was that worry causes suffering, so don't worry, be happy! I also realised that I AM VISION. I sculpt my world with my vision. It was very relaxing, erotic and therapeutic.

I let the leaf mix soak for only 4 and a half hours this time. It was a different leaf batch but I felt I got every bit of dmt out of it. There was some metallic visuals and a bit of gold. I ate one slice of bread with about 10ml olive oil and drank 400ml water slowly after it to make the trip kick in. It is better than butter.

Wow, I can't wait to try this with a decent dose of vine. Hippie3, are you going to give this method a go and give it the official thumbs up? You can kick everything else I wrote out of the archives and put this in instead. It is the dog's bollocks.

I would like to try using syrian rue. Maybe the excessive nausea that people sometimes get is due to overdosage. I have an accurate 0.1g scales so I could carefully control the dose. If I can get the brilliance of vine from syrian rue without excessive nausea then I am truly sorted.

i just ground up 55 grams of inner root bark, m. hostilis
i soaked it in everclear for an hour then
strained and i am doing a second soak then i will
do a third.
can i boil it down a bit...?
what can i do from here?

"I would like to try using syrian rue. Maybe the excessive nausea that people sometimes get is due to overdosage."

From my own personal experiance I would say it is because they grind up the whole seeds and eat them.
I have had much better luck making an extraction of the seeds and using them this way. There seems to be something in the seeds that is NOT water soluable that makes one very sick. It seems that the good stuff IS water solable. I can handle an extraction made from 15 grams of rue with very little sickness by using this method.

Give it a shot! I am sure you will find it to be much makes you much less sick.

"55 grams of inner root bark"

Better not drink that all at once! If you do I expect a full report! If this method works and you happen to extract all of the DMT from the bark, 55 grams of mimosa would send you on one VERY powerfull trip. I have done 30 grams using a water extraction, and literly went OBE and met the goddess face to face.

I would try 1/4 of this extraction to see what happens. I would also keep the mimosa after the extraction. If nothing happens, chances are the good stuff is still in the mimosa. Waste not want not!! It is also NOT a good idea to boil ever clear, just let it set at room temp and it will evaporate very quickly.

(Message edited by roo on January 24, 2005)

yeah i have it at room temp.
it is sitting in my sock drawer.
it is weird, the color of the liquid is like reddish-brownish
but at the bottom there is a really light colored
layer of silt looks like it woulb be white without
all the liquid in there, one day i will find out.
how long do ya think it will last in there, ...
btw i squeezed the holy living hell out of the last of the grinded root bark through 2 coffee filters.. the liquid just looks psychadelic.

[phalanx]

Is everclear basically almost pure alchol that hasnt been denatured with methanol etc? If the bark is reasonably potent, 10-15g should be plenty.

I looked up one of my books which said dmt FREEBASE is soluble in alchols, dilute acids, and acidified alchols. In mimosa etc, it must be in some salt form which may or may not be so soluble. And a certain amount of cooking may be necessary to make it soluble.

I prefer to consume both plant material and alchol solution to be on the safe side. I look on the alchol as a gum and wax dissolver to make the plant powder more digestable. Maybe it dissolves dmt too, I dunno.

Jason, if your method doesn't work, try consuming the plant material together with the alchol. And use white rum. This Everclear stuff sounds like overkill.

Roo, thanks for the brewing advice. Could you give my alcholic method a go, consuming plant material and all? Use a batch of leaf or mimosa that you already know is potent. You could use syrian rue instead of vine for convenience.

i only have 151 proof everclear it isn't the 190 killer stuff.
i'm letting it evap as much as i can on my computer desk, should i avoid light contact?

[phalanx]

I suppose to be on the safe side you should keep the mix out of direct sunlight.

Roo, another question. I may have asked you this before, but do you think syrian rue gives the full aya character of vine (apart from any excessive nausea) or is there something lacking?

[phalanx]

mistake, put post in wrong place

(Message edited by phalanx on January 24, 2005)

ok guys i found a cool little article here...
http://entheology.org/edoto/anmviewer.asp?a=62&z=5

i like the way they ingested the stuff ...
sounds fun.

"Roo, another question. I may have asked you this before, but do you think syrian rue gives the full aya character of vine (apart from any excessive nausea) or is there something lacking?"

I have heard people say that Caapi contains a spirit that is much more familor with humans, rue does not. I know this is a strictly esoteric answer.

To me Caapi seems like a lighter trip, more spiritual, more healing. Like I am in flight. To me it has more "energy". Rue seems heavy, and the visions are not the same to me. Rue seems to be more of a body buzz, and I feel rooted to the earth.

I would have to say that Caapi gives the experiance depth. Its is like a higher frequency of mind. The same goes with the mental aspects.

If you just want pretty visions, go with the Rue, If you want to experiance the spiritual and healing aspects, go with the Caapi.

This is true just for me so far, it may not be like this for everyone. People should try it both ways.

[phalanx]

I suppose it is a hard question to answer. The content and quality varies a great deal even with caapi. I'll be ordering some rue tonight so I will find out for myself soon. I feel a bit left out for not trying rue, even though everyone says caapi is better.

Try one of the "salt" methods to extract the rue. I realy used to hate the high body load of rue untill I tried this. This stuff is good on its own or with the shroom.

At least for me it realy mellows me out.

[lucysmiling]

hey guys, i got a question about alcohol, mimosa syrian rue extraction. I was reading down bellow on some other forum about it, and it sounds like a decent extraction. I cant use my stove so i am wanting to do one of these. Can one of you elaborate on what i should do with this extraction. I just want to get this right.

thanks a million

lucysmiln

[phalanx]

Hi Lucy, I would have replied sooner but I was away.

I never used rue but you could try the following method. Grind about 3-5g to a powder, add a little bit of bacardi to moisten and let sit for a few hours. Then add 100ml water when ready to dose in order to bulk it up.

You could either filter the mix through a fine sieve to remove the seed powder and only drink the liquid, OR simply stir it and swig liquid with the seed powder together. The second option would probably be more reliable but would make you sicker from what I have heard.

For mimosa, hammer the bark to soften it and grind it to a powder in an electric coffee grinder. Use a fine sieve to separate out all the fibre from the powder. Put the powder in a glass and add enough bacardi rum to fully moisten it. Mix well. Let it sit for a few hours. Then add 100ml water and stir well. Drink the lot, sludge and all. 10-15g should be enough.

[Hippie3]

i'd suggest read ALL of the threads here too-
http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages...tml?1059710278

can you post this extraction method you speak of, the URL on the other un-named forum perhaps ?

[Hippie3]

I changed my name from Leprachaun to Phalanx

ah, thx for the update.

[phalanx]

I'm really hogging that aya archive

I tried taking 4g syrian rue (first time ever) and 20 chacruna tonight but it didn't work out too good.

Weighed the rue on a 0.1g scales. Ground 30 seconds in an electric coffee grinder. Got a fine yellowish brown powder with a yucky smell like dark chocolate. Put in a glass and added 10ml rum. Mixed and left to soak.

Ground leaf for 30 seconds. Put in glass with 30ml rum, mixed well and left to soak.

After 5 hours, added 50ml water to seed mix and drank the lot. Very bitter.

After 40 mins I had a cool buzz and was seeing "shimmers" when I looked around the room. After 1 hour I was fairly well whacked out before even taking the leaf. I felt dizzy and sick when walking around. Shimmers all over the place. Saw distinct tracers around stuff. They were colourless, ghostly and beautiful. Reminded me of the monster in the predator film when it was invisible and moving around. Glassy.

100ml water was added to leaf mix to make it drinkable.
I puked 3 times when I started to consume pv. Chilled out for a while and drank the rest. This was 90 mins after taking the seeds.

After another 90 mins, I ate some bread to kick in the trip and puked a few more times. Felt much better and ate more bread.

After 30 mins the tracers were now coloured but the trip was weak.

The rue dose was too high, causing excessive nausea. I will use 2g next time. Also, I ate a load of sausage rolls 5 hours before dosing. I thought it would all be digested by then but no. The fuckers were still sitting in my digestive system causing a backlog, increasing nausea and slowing absorption. That is the first time I ate such heavy food on the day of a trip and it will be the last. No meat!!!

Unfortunately I can't really comment on the character of rue as opposed to vine. Trip was too weak and unfocused. Better luck next time. Rue effects alone were interesting. MAOIs really can be hallucinogenic without dmt.

[I_am_me]

Maybe try the salt extraction for the rue? It seems pretty simple.

[phalanx]

SUCCESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am coming down from a cool trip of rue and leaf.

I used 2g rue. Had to grind it for twice as long, 1 minute, to get the same fineness I did with 4g. May be due to the ultra low bulk. Put in a glass with 5ml rum.

I used 20g pv prepared like last time. Both rue and pv were from the same herb batches as last time.

I ate only light food earlier in the day, and fasted 4 hours before dosing. Herbs were soaking for 4.5 to 5.5 hours.

One hour after drinking the rue, I had a pleasant buzz but no nausea, dizzyness, shimmers or tracers. Drank the pv then. There was minimal nausea after that which was easily cured by fresh air and burps. 2 hours after pv, I ate one slice of toast and c.10ml olive oil, chewed it very well and drank 200ml water slowly after it.

The trip was cool. Way stronger than last time. It seemed to have all the purple erotic magic and insight of vine. The trip was of moderate intensity but I felt I got the full dmt hit from the leaves. I would like to try this again with a larger dose of leaf to see how deep the rabbit hole goes with rue. I strongly suspect I will end up in exactly the same place I do with vine.

2g rue was the perfect dose. IMHO, I think all excessive nausea associated with rue is simply due to overdosage.

[I_am_me]

Yea I've read many many reports on the net of 1.5-2 grams of rue being plenty to give the proper maoi effects.

[I_am_me]

Glad to hear it went well by the way, I'm still waiting for the right time. For some reason I think I'm somewhat apprehensive of drinking it in my small studio apartment. I can't explain why but I've been wanting to plan a camping trip with a very close friend of mine to partake there or at a house out in the country. Heh, we will see.

[phalanx]

The seeds are so damn potent that even 1g could make the difference between just right and too much or too little. Accurate scales are essential when using rue IMO.

Many people probably use crappy scales, spoons, or just eyeball the dose. Madness!!! Or they follow the usual guideline of 3-5g like I did, and get burned.

1.5g may have done me fine.

[phalanx]

If you want to try aya for the first time, I recommend you start at home, taking small doses at first to ease yourself into it. It would be a bad buzz to go out to the middle of nowhere to camp and only then find out your brew was a dud.

Your studio will turn into a jungle or something when tripping so there is no need to worry about how it looks when sober. Anyway, I prefer being in almost total darkness in bed with eyes closed. You can really go places that way. I find aya is much less prone to paranoia or claustrophobia compared to shrooms.

[phalanx]

Certain classical music goes well with aya. Matches the flowery drama of it all. I only listen to it in the early stages to help me chill out. I can still hear it in my mind now. I prefer silence during the peak. I may experiment more with music in future.

[phalanx]

Had another cool trip with 1.5g rue and 25g of another batch of leaf that was more potent.

It had loads of vine character. Changed into a british fisherman and some fat british guy who seemed to be a doorman and liked wearing black. I was briefly a middle aged woman.

I had been watching laurence of arabia and started turning into some of the characters but they lacked depth. They were only shroom-type acting.

As it got more intense I turned into a lovely girl who seemed to be tripping on aya herself!!! I could see with golden violet metallic aya vision putting an exotic sheen over everything. Drinking purified water felt wonderful and significant. Aya loves water. It is mad to think that there may be a girl somewhere who was turning into me as she tripped!!!

The main part of the trip revolved around vision which is a hot topic in my recent trips. I realised I am out of focus and need to be corrected. I momentarily managed to fix my eyesight and could see with amazing clarity, but I lost it again. I got the feeling I could change things simply by being able to see them the way I wanted them to be, instantly. But i would need focused aya vision, alas.

There were loads of highly erotic shameless fantasies. I learned how to look at women in a certain way that made them horny instantly. I've forgetten it now, shit!!!!! I also keep getting loads of incestuous, gay and s&m master fantasies which freaked me out at first but I'm used to it now. Also fantasies of raping women and exhibitionism. I have leaned to accept these aspects of myself and feel more relaxed about them.

This phase of imagery only started when I went up to bed. I think I may trip around my house with my eyes open in future. The trip has a tendency to go a bit psycho with eyes closed. Maybe it is just repressed fantasies being released in a violent burst and I suppose it is ultimately healthy.

I learned how to become disembodied by letting go of everything and I felt my body begin to melt away. I got worried and solidified again. Allegedly

That was my trip, quite a ride. Despite getting some of the coolest features of vine, I'm still not entirely sure rue is as good. I'll need another 5-10 trips or so to make up my mind. It may be lacking an extra kick. Tetrahydroharmine?

[phalanx]

Dammit, just noticed I spelled "Alcoholic" wrong in the thread title. Argh!

[Hippie3]

repressed fantasies being released in a violent burst and I suppose it is ultimately healthy.

if
and only if
one doesn't not dwell on
or indulge the fantasy further.
just touch, accept, let go and move on.

[phalanx]

It is dangerous territory but it is good to have all these psychological tensions released in harmless fantasies than to come out in real life. The only harm that can be done is feeling really guilty about it and not being able to accept it. Or acting them out, of course. There was plenty of other non-sexual fantasy violence on a grand scale.

I feel back to my normal self today and I think it was therapeutic. I feel relaxed and in good humour despite all the nasty things going through my mind last night. Aya works in strange ways.

[phalanx]

I think I know now why I occassionally get these ultra-violent aya trips. It is my subconcious mind letting off steam.

I when I first started to get them I was totally shocked that a nice guy like me would have such thoughts, and I felt very guilty about it. I realise now that I get them BECAUSE I am a nice guy and wouldn't do these things in reality. It is all pent up energy being released in a safe and socially acceptable way, relaxing and purifying my soul. I thought the brew was trying to turn me into a psychotic maniac, but actually it is trying to stop me from becoming one. It was a purge!

I now see the wisdom of it. I reluctantly wrote out the full details of my trip but I'm glad now that I did. It helped me realise what is happening. I recently started threads about picking up women and self defense against scumbags. It all ties together. All my frustrations were released in a violent explosion of imagery and I feel much better for it now.

I don't want my experience to put anyone off Ayahuasca. It was only trying to cure me but I didn't understand. Now I do. Thanks Aya!!!

[Hippie3]

we all have a dark evil side to us,
that is part of being human
and even god.

[phalanx]

It reminds me of the part in Laurence of Arabia where Laurance wants to go home. He feels very guilty because he executed a man and ENJOYED it. He discovered a part of himself that he never knew existed and it shocked him.

Later on in the film he is shocked and terrified by his own bloodlust and fears he is going insane. He couldn't reconcile his image of himself as a nice guy, and his enjoyment of the thrill of killing mercilessly.

I've had to go through a similar process with my dark trips but I think I am finally accepting it all. The full range of human evil is inside all of us, looking for a chance or excuse to escape.

Anyone think the word "escape" looks like a leopard? I'm on aya now. Trip is low potency, probably built up a tolerance to rue after taking 4 trips in the space of a week. I got some appetite for this Ayahuasca. The word looks like jungle. Tigers and lions and stuff. Jaguars too. Gets hard to tell them apart when the are all morphing. Eyes are cool, glassy like marbles, makes everything look royal. I better shut up now.

[phalanx]

I think I have had enough of rue now. I didn't get a proper therapeutic trip, one that leaves me content for a few weeks with no desire to drink the brew again. After 4 rue trips I didn't get it. 2 were very potent but still not satisfying. I'll use vine next time. I got better therapy from moclobemide. I'll take a break from aya for a while to recuperate. Best not to be tripping too much.

The word escape still looks like a leopard. Or is it a cheetah or jaguar? Anyone who can spot the feline and describe it wins a round of applause.

It's a jaguar!!!

[phalanx]

I brewed 40g of vine today with alcohol and it blew my ass off. I didn't even get around to drinking the pv I had prepared. Yet I tripped!!!

The vine ground right down to a powder without loads of coarse fibre sitting in it like usual. Very strange. I put it in a pot with 50ml bacardi and 300ml purified water.

I let it heat up to low 70*c's. Alcohol boils at 78*C and I didnt want it all to evaporate out too quick by boiling the brew. Then I let it brew for 40 mins.

I filtered through a medium sieve only and did a second extraction the same way.
Then I did a third cold rinse which i siphoned and got a decent yield of crystals.

The reduced brew had heavy sediment and was very bitter to drink. Made me retch a few times which is unusual for vine. It made my tongue go a bit numb like moclobemide. This was my first suspicion i had taken a very potent dose.

After 1 hour, I was quite spaced. I had a good body buzz, head buzz, light-headedness, and felt a bit sick. My vision was altered in a subtle but distinct way. Hard to describe. Similar to rue but different.

Over the next 40 mins I had 3 puking sessions. That is when the hallucinations started. I went out for air and the clouds turned into various things. i saw pictures in my marble fireplace. When i looked at the reflection in my tv screen (off), I saw things which werent there.

after all the puking, I was exhausted and went up to bed. I tripped well for about 30-40 mins. I kept seeing people of all sorts. Buildings in distant lands. Houses, fancy rooms, cars.

The hallucinations were weak in the sense that they were semi-transparent with weak colouring. However, their clarity and detail was ASTOUNDING. It was like looking at reflections in black marble or on a tv tube. Crystal clear.

in one vision, I was in a room with a tiled floor. i knelt down and looked at my reflection in a black tile. I could clearly see myself and the rest of the room. Now that is what I call clarity.

In another, I saw the back of the head of a man with long black hair, spanish, standing outside in a town square in the sun. I could clearly see the sunlight reflecting off his hair. i could see the individual hairs. The detail was exquisite.

On one hand i am disappointed i never got round to drinking the pv, but on the other i am thrilled to have experienced a proper pure vine trip for the first time.

It was great to be able to drink caapi without the yucky vinegar taste. It was just caapi tasting like it should.