Banning of Discussion of RC's at topia

[cleanjar]

love it.

great descision.

kudos to hip, fur keeping on top of things.

hopefully, well actually, maybe this should be deleted too

but, its under different circumstances.
because i am in agreement hehe

anything rc related is bound to become an argument,
especially if im around,,,

it's just trash

and if anything,
rc-talk should be done in the
resist and rebel forum.

garbage yes,
something designed to challenge drug laws,
yes to that too.

so there, it does serve some purpose,
but its not to my liking
and i think rc's are a sad revolution.

the man (alexander) who designs them
never pulled off making something
as good as lsd.
and lsd will never be matched,
because its simply the most incredible
chemical ever designed.

and lsd is what everyone who toys with
RC's wants.
lsd breeds goodness and madness into this
world unlike any other molecule.

if rc users spent even half the time
they do sickening themselves with
weird rc-chemicals, they would probably
have scored some acid by now.
but they dont,
because RC's are lazy,
and actually destructive in most instances.

complete and utter garbage.
i wish every generation had lsd at their fingertips.

tis sad.

ive said all ive said and ill say no more.

[roc]

Well said and I agree!

Kudos for Hip banning this type of discussion here!

What is an "RC"?

Look Here.

That's all I'll say about it.

i'll agree with you guys too...
that shit is just bad news.
i'll be sure never to talk that
stuff again...

i hate to restrict our discussions
but trafficing in RC is a red flag issues
for the federales
and we just don't need the heat.

[elgr]

I'll agree with you, especially about RCs being used namely by people who can't get lsd. Which is a shame. However, I do have a great deal of respect for Alexander Shulgin as a chemist.

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

the man (alexander) who designs them
never pulled off making something
as good as lsd.
and lsd will never be matched,
because its simply the most incredible
chemical ever designed. <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

There is a distinction that is so very important here, that it is worth mentioning.

RCs are synthetic. They are made by monkeying around with chemical structure.

LSD is fundamentally not a synthetic substance (and was not "designed" by the hands of man). It was originally found among ergot alkaloids, it is made naturally (by the ergot fungus). It can be synthesized from precursors like LSA, yes, but it is fundamentally not synthetic.

Natural drugs are superior to synthetic drugs, and I will only use natural drugs.


Shaman

LSD is a synthetic, much like hydrocodone, however, the precursor to LSD, before the amide functionality is added, is a naturally occurring compound.

I stand corrected. Lysergic acid was chemically reacted with diethylamide to get the derivative LSD:

In the late 1930s, Albert Hoffman was working in the pharmacological department of Sandoz, in Basel, Switzerland. He was studying derivatives of lysergic acid, including systematically reacting the acid group with various reagents, to produce the corresponding amides, anhydrides, esters, etc. One of these derivatives was the diethylamide, made by addition of the -N(C2H5)2 group, and it was named LSD-25.
-----------

from http://www.flashback.se/archive/my_problem_child/

I further employed my synthetic procedure to produce new lysergic acid compounds for which uterotonic activity was not prominent, but from which, on the basis of their chemical structure, other types of interesting pharmacological properties could be expected. In 1938, I produced the twenty-fifth substance in this series of lysergic acid derivatives: lysergic acid diethylamide, abbreviated LSD-25 (Lyserg-saure-diathylamid) for laboratory usage.

I had planned the synthesis of this compound with the intention of obtaining a circulatory and respiratory stimulant (an analeptic). Such stimulating properties could be expected for lysergic acid diethylamide, because it shows similarity in chemical structure to the analeptic already known at that time, namely nicotinic acid diethylamide (Coramine). During the testing of LSD-25 in the pharmacological department of Sandoz, whose director at the time was Professor Ernst Rothlin, a strong effect on the uterus was established. It amounted to some 70 percent of the activity of ergobasine. The research report also noted, in passing, that the experimental animals became restless during the narcosis. The new substance, however, aroused no special interest in our pharmacologists and physicians; testing was therefore discontinued.
-------------------
The solution of the ergotoxine problem had led to fruitful results, described here only briefly, and had opened up further avenues of research. And yet I could not forget the relatively uninteresting LSD-25. A peculiar presentiment - the feeling that this substance could possess properties other than those established in the first investigations - induced me, five years after the first synthesis, to produce LSD-25 once again so that a sample could be given to the pharmacological department for further tests. This was quite unusual; experimental substances, as a rule, were definitely stricken from the research program if once found to be lacking in pharmacological interest.
Nevertheless, in the spring of 1943, I repeated the synthesis of LSD-25. As in the first synthesis, this involved the production of only a few centigrams of the compound.

In the final step of the synthesis, during the purification and crystallization of lysergic acid diethylamide in the form of a tartrate (tartaric acid salt), I was interrupted in my work by unusual sensations. The following description of this incident comes from the report that I sent at the time to Professor Stoll:


Last Friday, April 16,1943, I was forced to interrupt my work in the laboratory in the middle of the afternoon and proceed home, being affected by a remarkable restlessness, combined with a slight dizziness. At home I lay down and sank into a not unpleasant intoxicated-like condition, characterized by an extremely stimulated imagination. In a dreamlike state, with eyes closed (I found the daylight to be unpleasantly glaring), I perceived an uninterrupted stream of fantastic pictures, extraordinary shapes with intense, kaleidoscopic play of colors. After some two hours this condition faded away.
This was, altogether, a remarkable experience - both in its sudden onset and its extraordinary course. It seemed to have resulted from some external toxic influence; I surmised a connection with the substance I had been working with at the time, lysergic acid diethylamide tartrate. But this led to another question: how had I managed to absorb this material? Because of the known toxicity of ergot substances, I always maintained meticulously neat work habits. Possibly a bit of the LSD solution had contacted my fingertips during crystallization, and a trace of the substance was absorbed through the skin. If LSD-25 had indeed been the cause of this bizarre experience, then it must be a substance of extraordinary potency. There seemed to be only one way of getting to the bottom of this. I decided on a self-experiment.

is E and RC?

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

stand corrected. Lysergic acid was chemically reacted with diethylamide to get the derivative LSD: <!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

I know this might sound nit-picky but the above should read: "Lysergic acid was chemically reacted with diethylamine to get the derivative LSD"

[_nothing_]

ohhh.. "mine" instead of "mide".. it took me awhile to notice the difference in what you corrected him with.. haha

bongholio-

e is not an rc
at least for this discussion

e is scheduled, the law is firm on the posession and distribution of mdma

the operative difference here i believe is that research chemicals are analogues of chemicals that are scheduled

almost exactly but not quite-

i guess the dea would compare it to holding up a bank with a toy gun instead of a real pistol.

yeah, that's lacking, but that's the only comparison i could figure quickly

I have a few friends that have dabbled in RC's. I have always thought that if they could find a nice source of LSD, they would not risk their minds and health with those damn RC's...

I'm glad to see that others share my opinion of RC's. It's too bad LSD isn't around where I live as much as it once was. I hear of people drinking cough syrup and eating Cordicedin (not the right spelling, I know) to get a trip. Its a shame; the RC's, cough syrup, and things like that are WAY more dangerous than LSD.

So what's the deal? We can't discuss RC's or just the acquisition of them? There are some natural RC's, like 5-MeO-DMT was sold through many RC companies. I have tried a few of them and I have friends that tried a bunch, but none are as great as the natural ones, in his opinion. He did like the 2ci, though.

my objection comes when sources get discussed
too much hassle trying to enforce a thin line
on folks who really don't care about the safety or security here
so best to avoid entirely, imo.

Could someone pls tell me what RC's are pls...or what RC stands for? By the sounds of it its to remain clear of these here items...so It would really help if I knew what they were so as to recognice and avoid with greater ease

RESEARCH CHEMICAL

Danke...dont thing id be doin any of that anyway

[shroomzhilla]

Didnt a lot of comic book super villians get their start with RC's?

[cleanjar]

the abuse of cough medicine is a sad tale imo.
cough medicine is a research chem, basically.
dex, dxm, ccc = bad news imo.
not to say it is safe or unsafe, good or bad,
no... it just sucks. hehe.
and it is relatively pathetic to be a junky,
with cough medicine;
and mycotopia is not too privy with theives.

5-meo-dmt that comes from a supplier = RC
5-meo-dmt that is extracted from various natural sources, is not a RC.
i might even be wrong about that,
but it is RC,
it's just too destructive,
and deconstructive
for mycotopia.

MDMA, is not a RC.
LSD is not a RC.
We discuss these blackmarket drugs
on a low-profile, and
nobody has to talk about them like
walking on egg shells.
and there is (obviously) no room here
to trade these drugs here because they
are already illegal.

RC's are just a sh.tty thing to trade here.
And the majority of the people here at topia
prefer natural drugs, and prefer to use or
at least learn to use drugs as building matter,
and positive ways; not negative and destructive.

i could go on and on and on and on and on.

Oh and LSD is still on our planet.
It just moves around in a different way now.
LSD is still produced.
It hides in the hands of many people still.
In peoples hands that are not in a hurry to
Sell.

LSD familys changed their ways of doing things
Shortly after jerry garcia passed away,
to be precise.
The last great wave of doses were the
"jesus christ" blotters,
from shortly after jerry passed away,
9+ years ago,
after that things changed.

Kids need to realize that scoring acid
is not very impulsive of an ordeal,
the people who hold great amounts of doses
are not impulsive to sell that quickly.
Certainly not as quickly as it takes to go
to the store and steal cough medicine.

"5-meo-dmt that is extracted from various natural sources, is not a RC.
i might even be wrong about that,
but it is RC,
it's just too destructive,
and deconstructive
for mycotopia."

I agree with what you are saying cleanjar. To a point.. Let me pick your brain, one lunatic to another.

If I create a brew that contains a plant that contains 5-MEO are you saying that I have violated some holy mycotopia writ. Is this what you are saying? What criteria are you using to judge these substances?

I would VERY much consider MDMA and LSD to both be RC's. Most other people would also. They do not exist in nature, nor have they had much use during human history. MDMA is very much a wildcard. We have no freaking clue of what long term use will do to a person. Its right up there with AMT, unknown, unstudied. I have known many MDMA heads who show signs of possible brain damage. Not only that but they have an inability to foster healthy relationships without the use of the drug. These people are just as fractured as a coke head is.

LSD is a man made substance. Its new in terms of human consumption. Compared to things like DMT or psylicybin, it is VERY new. More is known about Datura than LSD. Real medical research using LSD is confined to less than 10 years during the 50's and 60's.

I never really liked LSD. The trip was "metalic", non animated, and hardly visionary. I only did it maybe 40 times over a 3 year period and gave up on it. To me its a yawn, and it lasts too long to be of any use for me. Good for digging around in your head, but shrooms do this also with the added bonus of a cool "light show". They only last 4 or 5 hours vs acid which from my experience can go more than 12.

People did change after Jerry died. But not as much as society did. Do you honestly think that if Jerry was alive today people would go see him? The whole hippy thing is becoming "un-cool" again, even more so than the 80's. God forbid if he where alive and tried to revive the antiwar thing of the 60's or if he decided to hold a concert against GW. Maybe he was better of to go when he did rather than be ruined by what exists today.

Right now its just a bunch of kids who want to get "f'cked up". There is no spiritual aim to the experience, no real aim to discover ones self. I have read posts here by people who's only intent on getting etheogens was to get screwed up. It always comes down to, "is it worth the buy?".. I have seen people here asking questions about Ayahuasca and all they want to know is will it really f'ck them up and how to they make it. Send them to the archives! Then they come back and say it seems like too much work to make the brew. LOL! I love it when they find out how easy it is, then they post there log of the extraction, then they say they are going to drink it! HA! They seem to never post again.. Perhaps the vine tore them to pieces. Good riddens.

Its my belief that these people who talk about trading in RC's are most likely too young to be here anyway. I am also certain that many of them are the "damaged" group of people who grew up during the mid 90's. Products of the system. A TV in every room of the house and now they put them even in cars and vans. Their minds are limited and sterile.

These kids need to spend a few years getting stoned out of their minds before they even touch an etheogen. Getting stoned can undue the damage inflicted by the sick society they have grown up in. But then, now is not the time for someone who can think for themselves. Society is in need of drones that can produce "product" and nothing more. LOL! A whole generation of "product".

[swine]

Maybe a bit off topic, but..

"...the "damaged" group of people who grew up during the mid 90's. Products of the system. A TV in every room of the house and now they put them even in cars and vans. Their minds are limited and sterile."

This is an unfair generalization. I was in highschool in the late 90's. There are plenty of young adults who are very promising, and nowhere near limited or sterile. And come on - getting fucked up off weed doesn't undo any damage inflicted by society.

heh, drugs are like a hammer, you can build great things, or you can really screw things up.

[yogi]

Thoth, I believe that we must exist in alternate universes!
First of all while I do agree with you that most young people today don't have a clue about the sort of conciousness that entheogens can bring and that commercial conciousness is rampant I do see a changing trend. First of all if Jerry were alive not only would people still go to see him I believe that he would be more popular than ever! The rest of his bandmates have celebrated a very succesful summer tour (for the 2nd year in a row)and while they are getting older they are still drawing devoted crowds to their shows.
when I went to their New Years show the parking lot was just like the old days with one interesting exception. LSD was not very in evidence but mushrooms were happily filling this void and were very much in evidence. Seems to me to be a natural response and not a bad one at all.
Garcia was never directly political in his voice. the Dead were always much more about lifestyle and compassionate endevors than about politics. Perhaps that is why they survived as long as they did. They didn't piss off those in power too much.Weir at this time is endorsing Kerry which is an honest and relatively noncontrovesial stand that about half of the country agrees with.
Out here on the coast it seems that the war in Iraq has brought back a resurgence of a 21st century anti war movement that respects its roots in the Vietnam movement but is still modern in its concerns. I see more IMPEACH BUSH bumper stickers when I am on the road than all other sentiments combined. Am I living out of touch with reality? I just know what I see around me.

[forseti]

<blockquote><hr size=0><!-quote-!><font size=1>quote:</font>

I am also certain that many of them are the "damaged" group of people who grew up during the mid 90's. Products of the system. A TV in every room of the house and now they put them even in cars and vans. Their minds are limited and sterile.<!-/quote-!><hr size=0></blockquote>

Actually, a question about your whole post in general Toth: What makes you so f'cking advanced?

for our purposes here
a RC is defined as any one of the gray area drugs invented in the last several years that hasn't yet be scheduled as illegal yet still falls under the Federal Drug Analogue statutes.
that would exclude LSD and MDMA as they are scheduled as illegal.

[cleanjar]

alright everyone just settle down

listen to what hippie said.

So we CAN talk about MDMA?



^ Rolling Smile

"Actually, a question about your whole post in general Toth: What makes you so f'cking advanced?"

Because I am a human being first and foremost. Physically I owe my creation to the universe. I think, I am self aware. In reality I am the product of over 4 billion years of life. As far as I can tell as I scan the universe there is no GOD but ME. We are what we think we are until proven wrong are we not? So far nothing has ever proven that I am not a member of the most advanced species in the universe.

As far as YOU thinking that you are less advanced, as you think it, it is probably TRUE.


"This is an unfair generalization. I was in high school in the late 90's. There are plenty of young adults who are very promising, and nowhere near limited or sterile."

I agree I made "an unfair generalization". I was perhaps a bit rash, I am sure there are those in your generation that are not hopeless drones. But my question for you is what has your generation really created that was not something that was inherited from my generation. My generation had "hippies", "tye dyes", "psychedelic everything". We created a social movement, and ended an unjust war. We broke the mold that was the society of our parents.

As far as I am concerned your generation was born and bred to be the "yes people" of a brave new world. I know the public school system, I know what changes where instituted in the 80's to create such people.

Have you really looked at your generation? Where are they now? The sad part is that your generation will only have half the quality of life my generation enjoyed, with twice the work. This is what I am getting at. I do not hear any complaints, not even a wisper. They have been trained to "just say no" to anything that is not approved by society. To swallow the bitter pill of slavery..

You are right. Not everyone in your generation is like this. I have had the good fortune of working with many people from your generation. What small minority there is that is not like my "unfair generalization" is wonderfully radical. More so than any other generation that came before it. They believe in ACTIVE, hands on "protest" that is near and dear to my heart. Be it the WTO protests or burning down fields of GM corn.




"And come on - getting fucked up off weed doesn't undo any damage inflicted by society."


But it does to screwed up people like this. Not people in high school, but people a few years beyond that can benefit from its use. It helps to break social programing. It helps people who have been trained to be "drones" see that life is more than working ones balls off for the man, and spending the rest of the time vegetating in front of the TV. Anything that gets people away from the "BOX" is a good thing. The box is what tells people how to think in this society. It sets standards. LOL! It tells you are a Republican or a Democrat. Its sets standards of public and private conduct. It tells you what society thinks is "HOT, bountiful, and acceptable. If your a male you most likely have developed your taste in females by what you have seen on TV.

What sort of social skills does TV actually teach? People now sit hypnotized for hours and get their dose of social programing. Give them weed. Let them sit around, get stoned and TALK to each other.

I apologize for my "unfair generalization", but I do see more "drones" than ever. I must also apologize to my wife as she is a part of your generation.

(Message edited by dr_hyde on October 06, 2004)

There are some young folks here, and there are some old folks here, but both folks are here.

So Thoth what exactly is my generation supposed to do? I'm busy surviving, is that the work you speak of? My generation was raised by your generation. You blame an electrical device for the drones, I blame your generation's parenting.
I am a survivor of a world I inherited.

i dunno whats going on, i'm gonna pack another bowl, all this
generations and generations is crazy ..

I wish I where about 19 again. These are exciting times and the "young folks" are the ones that can realy change things. Us old folks blew our chance. Perhaps what I feel is envy. Hmm... One of those 7 deadly sins.

My hope is that whatever "movements" do form become apolitical. My generation was used. All we have now is more of what we had then. There is a twist of psychedelica, but its something that is for sale. It sells things...

If I had to do it all again I would avoid becomming tied to any political party that was not created by the movement. We got used, we got "tricky Dick". Republicans used us to gain power, then the democrats used us. Now that we are the ones in power, we use each other.

Here for what Suckerfree.. The Buzz or the trip? This whole RC thing is full of strange "moral" arguments. How can one praise LSD/MDMA and put things like RC's in a synthetic, non natural light? I think as far as the law goes they could care less if it is "natural" or not. If they catch you with shrooms they are going to to the same thing as they would if they found LSD. Your screwed. As far as the effects on the body, who is to say what they are. There is bias on both sides.

I sense a moral argument buiding here. Natural vs Chemical. In reality its all chemical. My point is not a moral one. My point is safty and long term use. These things are big unknowns. Nothing that disrupts brain chemistry is without some risk. My point is what substances do we have the most information about? LSD has serious risk involved in its use, as well as mushrooms. There is an unfound bias that natural substances are less risky than synthetic. The data does not support this.

I think it comes down to what you are trying to acomplish by taking these things. People who consistantly take them to escape have problems that need to be resolved other than their drug use. People who want to explore their minds, talk to whatever GOD they worship etc, have a much better chance of using them in a responsible way. They tend to trip in settings that are more peacefull. They are not likly the ones trying to fly off buildings etc. Ketamine can be used in this way, as well as LSD or shrooms. One is not more evil than another.

I realy do not see the point of this thread. Other than people trying to use this site to score. Its the same things as using this site to score some dried shrooms or weed. I sense the "moral" or "natural vs synthetic" argument building.

Hippie3 is the final word on all of this. He can do whatever he wants. But my question is one of philosophy. WHat makes one "drug" better than another? In my mind it is safty. We just do not know enough about RC's, with the exception of 5-meo.

"My generation was raised by your generation. You blame an electrical device for the drones, I blame your generation's parenting.
I am a survivor of a world I inherited."

As too am I a product. The TV was given to you by my generation.

My question is that do you want to be the generation to put the final "brick in the wall" or the one to knock it down, once and for all. If you are happy with what you see, so be it. Leave it alone..

Maybe its just me, but I think most of your generation is happy to leave things the way they are. To put their hope in the illusion of "the American dream" and freedumb.


" I'm busy surviving, is that the work you speak of?"

But are you thriving? We all survive. Even if we live on the streets we survive. What kind of hope do you have for the future of your children. Would you like to see them go to college, make something of themselves, do MORE than just survive. Would you like to do more than just survive on more than the crumbs that fall from OUR masters table?

This is my question. Does this generation realize they are going be be screwed more than any other generation in history? Its already happening. When I was young I did the job of one person, now you must do the job of 2 or 3 for money that buys less. Is your generation going to do anything to change this?

Why not?

What are you afraid of and why? Ask yourself this question.

We should create a seperate thread of this.. Completly off topic.

I have enjoyed this exchange with you Suckerfree. In reality I could be of the generation I speak or or I could be of your parents.

Either way it sucks, either I watch myself get shafted or my children get shafted. The issue is not about money, but prosparity.