ending emulsions

lyqwyd · 03-30-07, 17:08

this anaconda was doing a spice extraction and ran into a pretty bad emulsion. heating is out since the tek is made for room temps. he knows that salt will end emulsions, but isn't sure whether this will be detrimental to the process. the snake is using the vortex method/straight to base.

Scroto Baggins · 03-30-07, 17:42

Is SWIL using KOH or NaOH? I hear that KOH is better because it doesn't form emulsions as easily. Anywho... since heating is out of the question the only other thing I can think of is to add more basic solution.

Also can you explain the science behind NaCl killing emulsions?

cheech · 03-30-07, 19:50

if your solution is base enough (13.8+) there will not be an emulsion and the layers will sep in 5 minutes or so.

synth · 03-30-07, 20:51

idk.. heating ftw, dude.

Quote:

Originally Posted by scroto

Also can you explain the science behind NaCl killing emulsions?

more dissolved ions seems to help, ie any salt.
strong bases are best though. add more lye.
no, it won't hurt the process.

lyqwyd · 03-30-07, 23:45

ok. an excess of lye was added for exactly that reason, but didn't seem to help. according to loochypooch's measurements 3Tbsp/2cups h20 was fine, and 2Tbsp/1cup was used. took 4+ hrs to fully separate. possibly too much RB powder, the aqueous layer is pretty thick. don't see how that would prevent separation however. salt ends emulsions because the more ions dissolved in a polar solvent the greater the dipole shift (i think) and the less miscible it will become with a non-polar solvent. Would the Cl- end up reacting with the DMT base, turning it into a polar salt and therefore becoming soluble in the aqueous layer?

synth · 03-31-07, 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyqwyd

took 4+ hrs to fully separate.

congrats

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibid

the more ions dissolved in a polar solvent the greater the dipole shift

what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ibid

Would the Cl- end up reacting with the DMT base, turning it into a polar salt and therefore becoming soluble in the aqueous layer?

no.

--

another thing to consider is relative densities of the solvents. you will increase the difference by adding more salts.

lyqwyd · 04-01-07, 16:32

well, mr snake added more lye and everything came out great. now he's gonna wash the final product with some ammonia. the VM&P he used was not as clean as expected, a little brown gunk left behind. dipole shift/moment is the difference in strength between the various polar constituents of a solution i believe. at least's that what the snake said. thank's fer the help, mr snake appreciates it.

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03-30-07, 17:08	#1 (permalink)
lyqwyd Mycotopiate Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 490	ending emulsions this anaconda was doing a spice extraction and ran into a pretty bad emulsion. heating is out since the tek is made for room temps. he knows that salt will end emulsions, but isn't sure whether this will be detrimental to the process. the snake is using the vortex method/straight to base. __________________ Hey man, there's a beverage here. - the dude

03-30-07, 17:42	#2 (permalink)
Scroto Baggins Mycophage Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 125	Is SWIL using KOH or NaOH? I hear that KOH is better because it doesn't form emulsions as easily. Anywho... since heating is out of the question the only other thing I can think of is to add more basic solution. Also can you explain the science behind NaCl killing emulsions? __________________ "I think I got really really drunk and really really naked." - Scroto

03-30-07, 19:50	#3 (permalink)
cheech Mycotopiate Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 423	if your solution is base enough (13.8+) there will not be an emulsion and the layers will sep in 5 minutes or so. __________________ greater vehicle, lesser vehicle. it does not matter, all vehicles will be towed at the owner's expense.

03-30-07, 23:45	#5 (permalink)
lyqwyd Mycotopiate Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 490	ok. an excess of lye was added for exactly that reason, but didn't seem to help. according to loochypooch's measurements 3Tbsp/2cups h20 was fine, and 2Tbsp/1cup was used. took 4+ hrs to fully separate. possibly too much RB powder, the aqueous layer is pretty thick. don't see how that would prevent separation however. salt ends emulsions because the more ions dissolved in a polar solvent the greater the dipole shift (i think) and the less miscible it will become with a non-polar solvent. Would the Cl- end up reacting with the DMT base, turning it into a polar salt and therefore becoming soluble in the aqueous layer? __________________ Hey man, there's a beverage here. - the dude

04-01-07, 16:32	#7 (permalink)
lyqwyd Mycotopiate Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 490	well, mr snake added more lye and everything came out great. now he's gonna wash the final product with some ammonia. the VM&P he used was not as clean as expected, a little brown gunk left behind. dipole shift/moment is the difference in strength between the various polar constituents of a solution i believe. at least's that what the snake said. thank's fer the help, mr snake appreciates it. __________________ Hey man, there's a beverage here. - the dude

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