DMT and REM?

abaca · 10-08-07, 21:58

What do you suppose a 'spice' journey would be like if you were dosed in a dream state? I asked this of a friend and his only comment was 'no way, not for me.' Although I have no desire to try this I think it will make for an interesting thread. For the sake of this discussion let's assume it's a breakthrough dose given by IV.

Doctor D · 10-08-07, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaca

What do you suppose a 'spice' journey would be like if you were dosed in a dream state? I asked this of a friend and his only comment was 'no way, not for me.' Although I have no desire to try this I think it will make for an interesting thread. For the sake of this discussion let's assume it's a breakthrough dose given by IV.

That sounds absolutely terrifying. It scares me just thinking about it. You'd probably wake up, so you would be disoriented due to the abrupt wake-up and because of the breaking through. With any luck, you'd sleep through it and not remember it. I'd pass.

NEPHROSIS · 10-08-07, 22:56

Wow

That's definitely something to think about haha...

karmadiver · 10-09-07, 12:57

I would be afraid, be very afraid.

kd

Paradox · 10-09-07, 13:49

I think it would wake you up as Doc D says

LotRev · 10-09-07, 20:43

Possibly the strangest aspect, assuming you were
still sleeping, would be that you would be in your
dreaming mindscape (which is very jumbled, or mine is).

On DMT you seem to still be there mentally, but
in a complete state of awe of course. If you
were in the trip and you were lost in the
wandering mind of the dreamer, who could
predict the outcomes or impacts.

If you are receiving DMT during REM sleep anyhow,
would it just be a higher dose?

I think this is slated for those IV DMT dreamers.

I can hardly bring myself to smoke the stuff,
even when I want to, much less inject it...
but who knows, maybe it wouldn't seem so bad
if I were dreaming.

Terence McKenna often spoke of the ability to
have actual DMT experiences within your
sleeping dreams once you have had the real
thing. I have had a few dreams like this, but I
find it even more difficult to withhold any
information that it presents.

Oddly enough, it happens just as he says...
someone in your dream will approach you with
a little glass pipe, and you will smoke it, and
you will go there, not as in a dream, but as in
a DMT experience.

LotRev · 10-09-07, 20:53

Btw: It is not recommended to listen to REM while
on DMT.

Vapor · 10-16-07, 21:56

At best perhaps one would not remember anything...just sleep through the experience. On the other hand there may be serious and, perhaps, long lasting negative ramifications. I do't see any gains what-so-ever, so why bother?

NEPHROSIS · 10-16-07, 22:26

Dose-wise, do you guys think it'd be much less though?

Paradox · 10-17-07, 04:52

We go in and out of REM during the night. As time goes on the time spent in REM gets longer. A possible reason why lucid dreams are easier to achieve in the morning. With the elevation of blood pressure from the DMT my thought is it could possibly wake you if done in one of the REM periods towards the end of the sleep session. In one of the earlier REM sessions ?

mycobri · 10-17-07, 07:57

i thought a mild DMT experience was already
in-effect during REM periods anyways.

the book 'DMT the spirit molecule' by rick strassman, M.D.
suggests after many clinical tests that DMT may be produced in our
pineal gland during REM and other stages of sleep.

makes sence how dreams are so hard to remember
and have a sence of timelessness.

just a thought.

entheogen23 · 10-17-07, 22:37

I immediately thought of Rick Strassmann as well. I think this would be a good question to pose to him. I have heard he is responsive to emails. This would be a valuable study for his new entheogen research project, The Cottonwood Research Foundation, which will soon be doing more in depth research into DMT and its endogenous presense in, and powerful effets on, the human brain.

I think I might email and ask him about this. I'll post his answer if I do!

-e23

NEPHROSIS · 10-17-07, 22:46

That's why I asked about the dose because I read DMT is thought to be produced during sleep. So maybe the dose would be much lower and breaking through would be easier.

entheogen - email him..I'd like to see what he says.

Paradox · 10-18-07, 04:15

My thought is dreaming itself could be viewed as a breakthrough in that one reality stops and another starts ? Could this be through production of dmt ? When i have took melatonin supplements i've sometimes gone from busy mind to hypnagogic imagery. Could it be when melatonin is produced (at night when tired) we start to produce dmt ? If I remember right from Ricks book , melatonin , serotonin and dmt and very similar molecularly . Ive got no answers so it would indeed be interesting to see what Dr Strassman has to say

entheogen23 · 10-18-07, 21:23

Here is Strassmann's reply:

Hello:

Thanks for reading the book, and for your note.

We'd like to study DMT levels in REM sleep, maybe not give it to people during REM sleep, although that would be interesting. It would need to be a low dose or they would awaken.

Best,

Rick Strassman

mycobri · 10-18-07, 22:45

thats pretty cool you got such a quick response

inquiring minds want to know

aumbrellaforainydays · 10-19-07, 11:22

from a movie
"i had a friend once that said its a mistake to think you're alive,
we are sleepwalking in our waking state and wakewalking in our dreaming state"

"why worry selling your waking life for minimum wage, when we get our dreams for free?"

i think our dosage of DMT helps us ease that transition of the appearingly opposed consciousnesses, the awake and the dreaming. whos to say that our dream realities are any less than our waking? whats to presume that those mental happenings under REM are no less real than the real life we make through mental conceptions?

this question of DMT and dreaming will probably be a lifelong one for me. many experiences to exlpore i believe in this area of entheogens.

[Home]	[The Vaults]	[Glossary]	[Donate]	[Sponsors]	[Affiliates]
[Calendar]	Mark Forums Read	[VIP Chat]	[Register]	[Activate]	[Resend Email]

10-08-07, 21:58	#1 (permalink)
abaca jerk of all trades Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 241	DMT and REM? What do you suppose a 'spice' journey would be like if you were dosed in a dream state? I asked this of a friend and his only comment was 'no way, not for me.' Although I have no desire to try this I think it will make for an interesting thread. For the sake of this discussion let's assume it's a breakthrough dose given by IV. __________________ "All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous." (Paracelsus)

10-09-07, 13:49	#5 (permalink)
Paradox Rumplestiltskin's Butler Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 83	I think it would wake you up as Doc D says __________________ We seek peace, knowing that peace is the climate of freedom.

10-09-07, 20:43	#6 (permalink)
LotRev Technopagan Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 475	Possibly the strangest aspect, assuming you were still sleeping, would be that you would be in your dreaming mindscape (which is very jumbled, or mine is). On DMT you seem to still be there mentally, but in a complete state of awe of course. If you were in the trip and you were lost in the wandering mind of the dreamer, who could predict the outcomes or impacts. If you are receiving DMT during REM sleep anyhow, would it just be a higher dose? I think this is slated for those IV DMT dreamers. I can hardly bring myself to smoke the stuff, even when I want to, much less inject it... but who knows, maybe it wouldn't seem so bad if I were dreaming. Terence McKenna often spoke of the ability to have actual DMT experiences within your sleeping dreams once you have had the real thing. I have had a few dreams like this, but I find it even more difficult to withhold any information that it presents. Oddly enough, it happens just as he says... someone in your dream will approach you with a little glass pipe, and you will smoke it, and you will go there, not as in a dream, but as in a DMT experience. __________________ Willful suspension of disbelief.

10-09-07, 20:53	#7 (permalink)
LotRev Technopagan Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 475	Btw: It is not recommended to listen to REM while on DMT. __________________ Willful suspension of disbelief.

10-08-07, 22:56	#3 (permalink)
NEPHROSIS Mycotopiate Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 233	Wow That's definitely something to think about haha...

10-09-07, 12:57	#4 (permalink)
karmadiver Mycotopiate Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 206	I would be afraid, be very afraid. kd

10-16-07, 21:56	#8 (permalink)
Vapor Mycophiliac Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 91	At best perhaps one would not remember anything...just sleep through the experience. On the other hand there may be serious and, perhaps, long lasting negative ramifications. I do't see any gains what-so-ever, so why bother?

10-16-07, 22:26	#9 (permalink)
NEPHROSIS Mycotopiate Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 233	Dose-wise, do you guys think it'd be much less though?

10-17-07, 04:52	#10 (permalink)
Paradox Rumplestiltskin's Butler Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 83	We go in and out of REM during the night. As time goes on the time spent in REM gets longer. A possible reason why lucid dreams are easier to achieve in the morning. With the elevation of blood pressure from the DMT my thought is it could possibly wake you if done in one of the REM periods towards the end of the sleep session. In one of the earlier REM sessions ? __________________ We seek peace, knowing that peace is the climate of freedom.

10-17-07, 07:57	#11 (permalink)
mycobri Stained Blue Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,447	i thought a mild DMT experience was already in-effect during REM periods anyways. the book 'DMT the spirit molecule' by rick strassman, M.D. suggests after many clinical tests that DMT may be produced in our pineal gland during REM and other stages of sleep. makes sence how dreams are so hard to remember and have a sence of timelessness. just a thought.

10-17-07, 22:37	#12 (permalink)
entheogen23 Mycophage Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 156	I immediately thought of Rick Strassmann as well. I think this would be a good question to pose to him. I have heard he is responsive to emails. This would be a valuable study for his new entheogen research project, The Cottonwood Research Foundation, which will soon be doing more in depth research into DMT and its endogenous presense in, and powerful effets on, the human brain. I think I might email and ask him about this. I'll post his answer if I do! -e23

10-17-07, 22:46	#13 (permalink)
NEPHROSIS Mycotopiate Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 233	That's why I asked about the dose because I read DMT is thought to be produced during sleep. So maybe the dose would be much lower and breaking through would be easier. entheogen - email him..I'd like to see what he says.

10-18-07, 04:15	#14 (permalink)
Paradox Rumplestiltskin's Butler Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 83	My thought is dreaming itself could be viewed as a breakthrough in that one reality stops and another starts ? Could this be through production of dmt ? When i have took melatonin supplements i've sometimes gone from busy mind to hypnagogic imagery. Could it be when melatonin is produced (at night when tired) we start to produce dmt ? If I remember right from Ricks book , melatonin , serotonin and dmt and very similar molecularly . Ive got no answers so it would indeed be interesting to see what Dr Strassman has to say __________________ We seek peace, knowing that peace is the climate of freedom.

10-18-07, 21:23	#15 (permalink)
entheogen23 Mycophage Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 156	Here is Strassmann's reply: Hello: Thanks for reading the book, and for your note. We'd like to study DMT levels in REM sleep, maybe not give it to people during REM sleep, although that would be interesting. It would need to be a low dose or they would awaken. Best, Rick Strassman

10-18-07, 22:45	#16 (permalink)
mycobri Stained Blue Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 2,447	thats pretty cool you got such a quick response inquiring minds want to know

10-19-07, 11:22	#17 (permalink)
aumbrellaforainydays Abandon certainty! Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 1,227	from a movie "i had a friend once that said its a mistake to think you're alive, we are sleepwalking in our waking state and wakewalking in our dreaming state" "why worry selling your waking life for minimum wage, when we get our dreams for free?" i think our dosage of DMT helps us ease that transition of the appearingly opposed consciousnesses, the awake and the dreaming. whos to say that our dream realities are any less than our waking? whats to presume that those mental happenings under REM are no less real than the real life we make through mental conceptions? this question of DMT and dreaming will probably be a lifelong one for me. many experiences to exlpore i believe in this area of entheogens. __________________ Best meet what comes when it comes.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode