Mescaline A/B Extraction help?

marvin gaye · 04-03-08, 15:30

I recently tried to perform an A/B extraction on a batch of ISO Alcohol extract I had, The black tar ISO extract was dissolved (with some trouble) in hot water which was then made basic with Lye, 200-300ml of xylene was added and the mixture was shaken up good. However when the mixture seperated, the xylene turned dark (much like the basic water mixture beneath the emulsion layer). This being my first atempt at any sort of A/B extraction I continued regardless. The xylene layer was syphoned off and squirts of dilute sulfuric acid were introduced, no crystals precipitated out so about 200ml ov very dilute sulf acid was added (possibly way too much but i didn't realy know what i was doing at this point), the xylene was removed and the urine colored acidic extract was boiled down to a smaller amount (turning it black). this was shoved in the freezer and allowed to nearly freeze, this solution was filtered and a black tar like residue was caught by the filter paper (nothing like mesc sulfate).

Having realized I'd failed I dissolved all this back in new basic water and started the process again except this time using just a few drops hcl acid in water for the salting step, however this time the much cleaner looking hcl/water extract was boiled down to produce a very small amount of a black flakey tar-like substance also unlike mescaline HCl

on a seperate note I managed to do a much more sucessful extraction on the rest of the powdered cactus, how ever I am not sure if my extract is safe to consume. Cactus powder was mixed with lye/water then xylene, xylene was pulled and mixed with Hcl acid solution ( 30 drops of 28% pure HCl in about 300ml of water in total, too much???). This acid solution was filtered and boiled down to produce a small amount of tan-colored powder, (a gram mabey?)

Is this extract safe to consume how it is? (does the fact that it is light colored indicate less impurities and residual acid?)

also is there anything that can be done to salvage the botched extraction i did earlier?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I also apoligise in advance for my spelling

DISSCLAIMER: the above is a fictitious work writen in the first person not an account of somthing that actualy happened!

Nunyabiz · 04-03-08, 15:42

If the stuff left over is a tan/white powder its good.. Taste a tiny amount.. Is it bitter like crank? you said a gram? how much you start with?
Sounds like you got some goodies.. The black tar isnt any good I dont think..

Have any pics?

marvin gaye · 04-03-08, 15:51

Will do that, got to go somewere now, bye, will post back in a day or two

Paradoxical · 04-03-08, 16:17

The black tar you started with was pretty much freebase mescaline to begin with (plus other junk like chlorophyll and cactus fats). What you wanted to do after that was turn it into a salt by acidifying first, filtering, defatting, basifying, etc.

Have a look at he TEKs on erowid:

Erowid Psychoactive Cacti (Trichocereus pachanoi & T. peruvianus) Vault

whatchamacallit · 04-03-08, 17:50

My suspicion is that the gunk is mescaline with other gunk.. When adding too much acid, more crap is pulled out along with the mescaline giving the brown stuff, that is common in many folks first extraction.. For nice crystals or cleaner mescaline, bubbling acid through the solvent is the best, which will make the crystals precip.. However, when you add water and acid, the mescaline freebase turns into the salt form (mescaline HCl or Mescaline Sulfate) which is soluble in water, so no precipitation will occur.. You just need to evaporate all the water to get the mescaline.. The color of the final product usually just depends on the purity.. As long as you evaporate all the water, with the HCl extract, any excess acid will evaporate into the air, but with the sulfuric acid, this isn't the case, so much more care is needed in properly titrating the amount of acid.

marvin gaye · 04-06-08, 22:21

Well I tried some of it, it seemed a bit weak allthough I ate it in stages as I didn't know weather it was going to make me ill. The thing is, I did another xylene pull today and this time used *less* acid but I ended up with more gunk? something that looked tasted like charcoal, ive heard if you leave your stuff in a strongly basic solution for to long the alkaliods start breaking down, is this what will have happened by now?

Anyway thanks a lot for your answers, Its allways better to try to understand what your doing rather than just following step by step instructions.

Ive heard of hcl gassing and Ive also heard that to purify mescaline hcl you can dissolve it boiling MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) then cool it down and mesc hcl precipitates out of the solution, I bought some MEK of ebay anyone know how I would go about this?

Anyway thanks again for your answers

brednenx · 07-20-08, 03:07

hey buddy seen a mek recrystalization here on myctopia and it was pretty much what u said.im looking at an extraction very shortly and am kinda worried about screwing it, but im gonna give it a go anyways. think im on bout the same level as you chemical wise n just what u said, tryin to get an idea of whats goin on instead a just followin instructions as this kinda result seems common in fisrt attemps. so heres my plan.take dry cactus powder, completely cover in water add enough hcl to bring the solution to ph4 to make the alkaloids salt. boil for an hour,strain to make a tea,boil this down if needed to more managable quantity.to this i will add a lye/water solution drop by drop
to bring ph up to 12-13 to turn alkaloids to base form.(will any alkaloids still be soluble in water?)then add 1 part xylene to 2 parts water, mix gently and leave to seperate for 24 hours and drain the xylene layer(i will then repeat this adding more lye,re seperating bfore disposing off non-xylene layer.)i will then add more water to double the amount of solutionand add hcl to bring ph back to 4, before placing in freezer where the acid water(hopefully containing the alkaloids)will freeze, then i can pour off xlene, quickly rinse with water and thaw and evap. i should end up with a yellow-brown powder right? if this works so far i shall then wash a feww times with chilled anhydrous acetone to get rid of any hcl residue and discolouration. this method is completely of my own findings from various places and i basically want to know if will work? has any1 done a similar extraction(iv made note of ph levels a lot more than most teks iv seen but from what iv read this seems pretty important if u dont want ot lose any product because the alkaloids are polar when basic and non-polar when acidic.

Somniferous · 07-23-08, 08:26

Hey mg this is one area I can help with.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I believe you killed your product by heating it with conc h2s04 (concentrating as you boiled the water off). The black sounds like charred product.

I know, I've done it. M + conc h2s04 + heat = black burnt looking/smelling inactive crap.

You need to be careful and only use as much acid as is required to salt the M.

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04-03-08, 15:30	#1 (permalink)
marvin gaye Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 5	Mescaline A/B Extraction help? I recently tried to perform an A/B extraction on a batch of ISO Alcohol extract I had, The black tar ISO extract was dissolved (with some trouble) in hot water which was then made basic with Lye, 200-300ml of xylene was added and the mixture was shaken up good. However when the mixture seperated, the xylene turned dark (much like the basic water mixture beneath the emulsion layer). This being my first atempt at any sort of A/B extraction I continued regardless. The xylene layer was syphoned off and squirts of dilute sulfuric acid were introduced, no crystals precipitated out so about 200ml ov very dilute sulf acid was added (possibly way too much but i didn't realy know what i was doing at this point), the xylene was removed and the urine colored acidic extract was boiled down to a smaller amount (turning it black). this was shoved in the freezer and allowed to nearly freeze, this solution was filtered and a black tar like residue was caught by the filter paper (nothing like mesc sulfate). Having realized I'd failed I dissolved all this back in new basic water and started the process again except this time using just a few drops hcl acid in water for the salting step, however this time the much cleaner looking hcl/water extract was boiled down to produce a very small amount of a black flakey tar-like substance also unlike mescaline HCl on a seperate note I managed to do a much more sucessful extraction on the rest of the powdered cactus, how ever I am not sure if my extract is safe to consume. Cactus powder was mixed with lye/water then xylene, xylene was pulled and mixed with Hcl acid solution ( 30 drops of 28% pure HCl in about 300ml of water in total, too much???). This acid solution was filtered and boiled down to produce a small amount of tan-colored powder, (a gram mabey?) Is this extract safe to consume how it is? (does the fact that it is light colored indicate less impurities and residual acid?) also is there anything that can be done to salvage the botched extraction i did earlier? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I also apoligise in advance for my spelling DISSCLAIMER: the above is a fictitious work writen in the first person not an account of somthing that actualy happened!

07-20-08, 03:07	#7 (permalink)
brednenx Mycophiliac Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 5	doin the same hey buddy seen a mek recrystalization here on myctopia and it was pretty much what u said.im looking at an extraction very shortly and am kinda worried about screwing it, but im gonna give it a go anyways. think im on bout the same level as you chemical wise n just what u said, tryin to get an idea of whats goin on instead a just followin instructions as this kinda result seems common in fisrt attemps. so heres my plan.take dry cactus powder, completely cover in water add enough hcl to bring the solution to ph4 to make the alkaloids salt. boil for an hour,strain to make a tea,boil this down if needed to more managable quantity.to this i will add a lye/water solution drop by drop to bring ph up to 12-13 to turn alkaloids to base form.(will any alkaloids still be soluble in water?)then add 1 part xylene to 2 parts water, mix gently and leave to seperate for 24 hours and drain the xylene layer(i will then repeat this adding more lye,re seperating bfore disposing off non-xylene layer.)i will then add more water to double the amount of solutionand add hcl to bring ph back to 4, before placing in freezer where the acid water(hopefully containing the alkaloids)will freeze, then i can pour off xlene, quickly rinse with water and thaw and evap. i should end up with a yellow-brown powder right? if this works so far i shall then wash a feww times with chilled anhydrous acetone to get rid of any hcl residue and discolouration. this method is completely of my own findings from various places and i basically want to know if will work? has any1 done a similar extraction(iv made note of ph levels a lot more than most teks iv seen but from what iv read this seems pretty important if u dont want ot lose any product because the alkaloids are polar when basic and non-polar when acidic.

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04-03-08, 15:42	#2 (permalink)
Nunyabiz Mycophage Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 122	If the stuff left over is a tan/white powder its good.. Taste a tiny amount.. Is it bitter like crank? you said a gram? how much you start with? Sounds like you got some goodies.. The black tar isnt any good I dont think.. Have any pics?

04-03-08, 15:51	#3 (permalink)
marvin gaye Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 5	Will do that, got to go somewere now, bye, will post back in a day or two

04-03-08, 16:17	#4 (permalink)
Paradoxical Mycophiliac Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 7	The black tar you started with was pretty much freebase mescaline to begin with (plus other junk like chlorophyll and cactus fats). What you wanted to do after that was turn it into a salt by acidifying first, filtering, defatting, basifying, etc. Have a look at he TEKs on erowid: Erowid Psychoactive Cacti (Trichocereus pachanoi & T. peruvianus) Vault

04-03-08, 17:50	#5 (permalink)
whatchamacallit Mycophiliac Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 27	My suspicion is that the gunk is mescaline with other gunk.. When adding too much acid, more crap is pulled out along with the mescaline giving the brown stuff, that is common in many folks first extraction.. For nice crystals or cleaner mescaline, bubbling acid through the solvent is the best, which will make the crystals precip.. However, when you add water and acid, the mescaline freebase turns into the salt form (mescaline HCl or Mescaline Sulfate) which is soluble in water, so no precipitation will occur.. You just need to evaporate all the water to get the mescaline.. The color of the final product usually just depends on the purity.. As long as you evaporate all the water, with the HCl extract, any excess acid will evaporate into the air, but with the sulfuric acid, this isn't the case, so much more care is needed in properly titrating the amount of acid.

04-06-08, 22:21	#6 (permalink)
marvin gaye Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 5	Well I tried some of it, it seemed a bit weak allthough I ate it in stages as I didn't know weather it was going to make me ill. The thing is, I did another xylene pull today and this time used less acid but I ended up with more gunk? something that looked tasted like charcoal, ive heard if you leave your stuff in a strongly basic solution for to long the alkaliods start breaking down, is this what will have happened by now? Anyway thanks a lot for your answers, Its allways better to try to understand what your doing rather than just following step by step instructions. Ive heard of hcl gassing and Ive also heard that to purify mescaline hcl you can dissolve it boiling MEK (methyl ethyl ketone) then cool it down and mesc hcl precipitates out of the solution, I bought some MEK of ebay anyone know how I would go about this? Anyway thanks again for your answers

07-23-08, 08:26	#8 (permalink)
Somniferous Mycophiliac Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3	Hey mg this is one area I can help with. I hate to be the bearer of bad news but I believe you killed your product by heating it with conc h2s04 (concentrating as you boiled the water off). The black sounds like charred product. I know, I've done it. M + conc h2s04 + heat = black burnt looking/smelling inactive crap. You need to be careful and only use as much acid as is required to salt the M.