Morning Glory LSA Extraction...conflicting recipes

[ajurfhas]

Hello and good day.

Three questions concerning LSA extraction from Heavenly Blue Morning Glory seeds:

1) I've been interested for some time in extracting LSA from morning glories, and have done extensive online research, but many procedures give conflicting advice.
Specifically, these:

EXTRACTION:
Erowid Morning Glory Vaults : Extraction of LSA (Method #2)

The first procedure says to soak the seeds in ethanol for 3 days after pouring nonpolar solvent (in this case White Gas) over them and through a filter. The second says to soak the ground seeds in nonpolar solvent (in this case the less-specific Petroleum Ether) and then make a quick solution of seeds and ethanol and then filter it.
[the second procedure also says to evaporate the ethanol after making the solution, but I am going with the solution-consumption method, so ignore that portion]

MY QUESTION: In order to make a not-so-nauseating and psychoactively potent LSA solution, should one soak the ground seeds for days at a time in the polar or nonpolar solution? Or both?

2) I have also done research into using various forms of Petroleum Ether in LSA extractions, and learned that Benzene is bad. Very bad. I perused the camp fuel selections of my local camping outfitter and found a brand of white gas, which I later looked up online. The Material Safety Data Sheet for this specific product can be found here:

zenstoves.net/MSDS/MSDS-SuperFuel.doc

I quote from the MSDS:

" In addition to EPA Hazardous Air Pollutants showing `Yes' under "HAP" above, using manufacturers' data, based on EPA Method 311, the following EPA Hazardous Air Pollutants may be present in trace amounts (less than 0.1%): Benzene,Polycyclic Aromatics"

...

"Leukemia been reported in humans from Benzene. This product contains less than 50 ppm of Benzene. Not considered hazardous in such low concentrations. Absorption thru skin may be harmful."

MY QUESTION: Is this more than a normal amount of benzene for petroleum ether, should I use it anyway, should I buy another brand of fuel, or should I buy another form of petroleum ether, such as Naptha?

3) I came across numerous water extractions for Morning Glories, but at first glance and in my gut they seem a bit shaky and quick.

MY QUESTION: Do MG water extractions work, should I use water instead of mucking about with chemicals, and if so could someone point me in the direction of a water extraction that works well?

One final question:
If I hadn't asked for advice here I probably would've use this recipe:

Erowid Morning Glory Vault : FAQ

...which I have read works very well. Is this so?


Thanks bunchez.

[warriorsoul]

Water extractions work just as well, if not better.

[tr3eman9]

Originally Posted by ajurfhas

2) I have also done research into using various forms of Petroleum Ether in LSA extractions, and learned that Benzene is bad. Very bad. I perused the camp fuel selections of my local camping outfitter and found a brand of white gas, which I later looked up online. The Material Safety Data Sheet for this specific product can be found here:

zenstoves.net/MSDS/MSDS-SuperFuel.doc

I quote from the MSDS:

" In addition to EPA Hazardous Air Pollutants showing `Yes' under "HAP" above, using manufacturers' data, based on EPA Method 311, the following EPA Hazardous Air Pollutants may be present in trace amounts (less than 0.1%): Benzene,Polycyclic Aromatics"

...

"Leukemia been reported in humans from Benzene. This product contains less than 50 ppm of Benzene. Not considered hazardous in such low concentrations. Absorption thru skin may be harmful."

MY QUESTION: Is this more than a normal amount of benzene for petroleum ether, should I use it anyway, should I buy another brand of fuel, or should I buy another form of petroleum ether, such as Naptha?

you already breathe in a fair amount of benzene every single day in the form of car exhaust. don't know how much is in car exhaust compared to naphtha though. but if you use the right stuff its supposed to all evaporate totally away anyway.

im going to try doing a cold water extraction any day now.

[ajurfhas]

awesome, thanks.
Still looking for answers to my first question, though...it's been bugging me.
And is there a super-awesome water extraction you can point me to?

[tr3eman9]

um i could look up a specific link but basically its pretty simple:

grind up the seeds
put them in teabags (or you could just throw them in the water and filter it out later, the teabags just save you the filtering)
get a tall glass of col water, add some lemon juice to it
stir the teabags in it for 30 minutes or so
take out the teabgas and drink the water.

[tregar]

tr3eman9 and everyone else in this thread is correct.

Ive done both extractions and the water extraction was more potent and fresher, done in an hour to a few hours vs. 4 days for the reagent grade petroleum ether defat then ethanol soak--did twice but it was weak, the water extraction can work really well, allow 2 hours before the LSA creeps up on you well, sometimes it takes 3 hours to hit, then its quite euphoric. Would go great with mescaline no doubt. teabags and cold water, easy and works read the quotes by "hermes" use the search engine...

I will never again do the petroleum ether defat then ethanol soak...the cold water extraction the shaman's use is super-potent compared to the long drawn out chemical soak which no doubt harms the actives which are easily broken down over a 4 day period due to their fragile ergoline structure. Air and light break down the actives quickly since they are not tartrated salts....

Be sure to add some lemon juice or a tiny dash of tartaric acid when doing the teabag cold water soak--it increases potency, extracts more, ph=4 or 5 works wonders. I had an incredible time on the teabag soak for 1 hour in the fridge with frequent agitation of tea bag, then quickly drink water. Wait 2.5 hours and felt very euphoric at the mall and music coming from the speakers in all the stores sounded really nice, plan to combine with mescaline in future. Very potent anti-depressant qualities too...it does really rock and no nausea. I was in a foul mood before I took them, and 3 hours later I was grinning like an idiot happy as can be and really enjoying everything around me. my mood did a 360.

The lsa's take much longer than acid (45 min) to come on...expect to wait 2 to 2.5 hours before it hits. It's best quality is its euphoric properties and enhancement of smell & sight & hearing senses. If you are in a bad mood it will put you in a great mood....you will be grinning from ear to ear. This is not a myth it really does work...do it the time tested way the shamans did it by using a water soak. They used loin cloth bags but we have tea bags in modern times, so use the tea bags..it keeps the nauseating crap in the bag but lets out the polar (water-soluble) actives into the water. Let it soak in the teabag in your cup/jar of distilled or spring water for 1/2 hour to 1 hour with agitation of teabag every 10 minutes. Press a spoon on the teabag every 10 min or so to agitate it or shake jar by putting lid on it...keep in the dark in fridge do not expose to light and DO NOT USE CHLORINATED water..it will kill the lsa's instantly.

I plan to do this again real soon I really enjoyed its feel-good euphoric properties, combined with mescaline it would be the bomb.

I wrote a faq on this and its in the archives, I met "hermes" who for years got effects from morning glory seeds (fairly fresh) that were equivalent in many ways to LSD. He used the teabag and cold water soak with lemon juice to get these effects. Read my faq and you will understand why it works..hey it worked for the shamans for thousands of years...but don't take my word read the quotes by hermes. Hermes will also explain the differences between LSD and the morning glory seeds as he has used both. I have used both too and the euphoria generated by a good soak of the seeds is equivalent to the euphoria enduced by LSD imho. Chemist Peter Webster (I have talked with him) believes that by soaking the seeds in water for 1/2 to 1 hour, this generates 3 actives as opposed to 2...read the book "sacred mushrooms of the godess" chapter on MG seeds towards the back to understand why. Water really does increase the formation of an additional active isomer. but takes about 1/2 to 1 hour or so.

I agree with this anonymous message on the net about it's feel good qualities:

Also, trips from the extractions I've tried have been powerfully, overwhelmingly emotionally positive. In contrast to psilocybin and LSD, which let you use the whole emotional gamut including profound fear and sadness, morning glory extract seems to filter out those negative ones and leave you a grinning idiot for the duration. While this is great from a recreational point of view, it leaves something to be desired if you're trying to experience introspective or spiritual psychedelic effects. In this way the extract is almost like using marijuana -- it's easy to giggle about stupid shit, but difficult to accomplish anything concrete.

If you order a bunch of seeds you like, freeze the extra seeds in a foil bag put into a food saver bag, vacuum the air out and store in freezer, and the seeds will keep their potency for a very very long time this way. Use the seeds that are less than a year old for best effects. Seeds put into freezer will keep their potency for years to come.

Draw up some of your water extraction after 1/2 to 1 hour with a medicine pippete and put it in front of a blacklight--it will glow a beautiful bluish color due to the active ergolines. Do not put the whole jar of water in front of the blacklight--that will kill its activity. These are very unstable un-tartrated salts, fragile alkaloids.

Cmon people! post your water extracted morning glory trips--I want to hear them, it really does work...

Don't forget to lower the ph to 4 or 3, this will pull out the actives from the teabag with increased efficiency.

Druiddream is a frequent ayahuasca user. Check out his report after he wrote to me and I taught him how to do a proper MG extraction:

Druiddream's trip report (June 2007):

Just wanted to thank you for the Morning Glory thread. Yesterday I had my first experience with this Green Elder with a cold water extraction in phosphoric acid, pH 3. I shook my little muslin Spice bag 4 times in the hour, filtered crudely through coffee filters and Kleenex, then put it back in the fridge until the next day. I used 8g. of "Ipomoea tricolor" from Bouncing Bear , and the experience was wonderful. I had 1g. of raw rue seed 2 hours before, taken in yogurt so I wouldn't have to chew them or taste them. The experience lasted from 11am to 6pm, with a distinct afterglow period where I was totally baseline, but I was still full of energy. I wish I had explored CEV's more, but I got some impressive visions that were totally unlike anything I'd seen in Ayahuasca , and more like the paintings of Dali or Magritte (for example, a pyramid with an eye in the center floating on clouds was something I saw).

Unlike Ayahuasca , this WAS NOT SCARY at all and felt really nice in the body, and was easy on the mind.

Please read how you've inspired me! See the Plant World Forum: Yopo/Vilca as Medicinal Herbs. The cold water extraction seems to be generalizable to seeds with nasty seed oils, such as yopo and Syrian rue.

When I made Syrian rue with cold water methods, the liquid (which usually makes me retch just smelling or tasting it) comes out clear of any rue smell or taste, which all stays in the bag. I used a muslin spiced bag with a coffee filter folded up inside it containing the ground seeds.

Not only has the LSA thread revolutionized LSA prep, but also can make Syrian rue and yopo more user friendly...

One hour, shaken every 15 minutes, filtered with plain old coffee filters and Kleenex. Kept in the fridge until the next day. He smoked mapacho and caapi leaves from time to time and found the experience *very* interesting, lasting for 6 hours. Eyes closed visions (not just visuals, but fully-formed visions) were nothing like he had ever seen before with Ayahuasca -- totally different. He saw lots of the "eye" motif, with an eye in a pyramid against a brilliant blue sky and floating on clouds. He also had a lucid dream in which a phosphorescent snake encouraged him to try to follow him through a portal in the corner of his bedroom, but the snake slithered through, while he, the lucid dreamer, couldn't figure out how to perform the same trick. The 6-hour period was followed by another 5 of afterglow, and it continued, he said, into the next day very strongly.

He had no nausea of any kind, and no sedation from Heavenly Blues (Ipomoea triclor). He told me it felt very much like being sped up on lots of caffeine or Kratom . The day was very full and active, as opposed to meditative and serene at home, as with aya. He went all over town, cleaned house, did things he had postponed for months at home in the way of repairs and cleaning...l

A word of warning! I only drank 1/3 of the portion and got effects similar to yours one hour later. He thought it was a dud, and went to the store, and it hit him while he was standing in the checkout line of the supermarket. He said the body effects made it difficult not to just drop everything and start dancing and singing! He had another 1/3 two hours later, and the last 1/3 two hours after that. The visions came more or less later in the experience, but the body effects came early on. Effects were not sedating at any time. He was relaxed and super energetic.

It's hard to just lie down and achieve CEV's because it's difficult to remain still and calm in the beginning. CEV-observation is more conducive towards the end of the experience, he said, unless you especially adept at sitting or lying still long enough to trance into the CEV state amidst the excitement, which makes one want to dance around and sing!

Recent article on LSA by Peter Webster (pages 24-35) download:
http://earthrites.org/invisible-coll...eltane07sm.pdf

[SpiralFree]

I'm having trouble finding this "FAQ".

A FOAF is interested.

[tregar]

Here you go spiralfree:

http://forums.mycotopia.net/misc-ent...-extracts.html (Lucid and Visual Morning Glory LSA Extracts)

From post #24 down you will be able to read the experiences from user "hermes" (has had several years experience with the seeds).

It is a long faq that took many months of research to compile.

I have spent around $200 via the reagent petroleum ether defat then ethanol soak route only to have dissapointing results x 3 seperate times with different batches of seeds (most likely due to the actives deteriorating over the defat period and 3 to 4 day ethanol soaks). However when I did a simple teabag water soak, I had beautiful potent results....go figure. Experiment by soaking the seed mush in the tea bag in your acidified cold water in the fridge anywhere from 1/2 to 1 hour to several hours to 8 hours if you want...find what works for you. I use a ph meter and dash of 99% DL tartaric acid powder (ebay) added to the water to get to ph=4. You can also use lemon juice or food grade phosphoric acid drops. Don't go below ph=4.0. A blacklight is good to have for testing. Don't expect to feel anything for 2 to 3 hours, comes on very slowly.

[TexaSGuy]

Short and simple - don't fuck with benzene. It's not worth it. Simple as that. Consider that it's harmful and can be absorbed through your skin - now consider how much more effectively it will be absorbed through your stomach lining (which is designed to absorb stuff).


The longer answer is using this extraction method (with benzene) once and a GREAT while probably won't kill you. I work in a chemical facility laboratory and come into contact with trace amounts of benzene on a daily basis, so I'm not one to talk, but still...do the cold water, you don't want more benzene in your body then it already has if you can help it.

I'd stick with the cold water extraction. It's not only safer, but more natural and will likely lead to a better high.

[SpiralFree]

Ah, thank you! my FOAF has stage 1 pre hyper tenstion, and is worried that he might not be able to even consider this.

Very nice information though.

[Lookyhere]

My friend in Colorado told me that he has tons and tons of Morning Glorys growing in his yard. He said that they basically took over the whole back yard and are now moving into the front yard. I told him about cold water extraction. My question is do all MG seeds work, or is it only certain types?

[tregar]

Heavenly blue are good. (blue flowers)

A few others are similar to lower in potency.

I think the best article so far was the one by Peter Webster in the 1st downloadable issue given above concerning morning glory seeds and his explanation of psychedelic activity, his experiments with migraine tablets. etc.

I once had a very potent and very enjoyable (much ecstasy) from a 1 hour cold water extraction of the seeds, came on in 2 to 2.5 hours and was very euphoric. I acidified the water to ph=4 with a dash of 99% DL tartaric acid powder to aid the extraction from the teabag full of crushed seeds in distilled water. I agitated the teabag every 10 min. no nausea at all. went from a foul mood before the tea to a state resembling an mdma experience about 2 hours after taking the tea all the while I was in public in a shopping mall. I just wanted to camp out under a speaker in the store cause the music sounded so good...euphoria was very high. But I'm not the 1st to report on the euphoria caused by them, piper and others in the faq I wrote also told of ecstasy resulting from the ingestion.

I didn't believe it until it actually happened to me that day.

Peter saids the shaman's method of preparation using water does work, I agree.

These seeds really interest me now all because of the happiness and ecstasy resulting from that single trip...I need to try it again soon.

[Lookyhere]

I read most of that link. It said that you want black seeds, not light ones. Pretty sure he said his are black, won't know until tomorrow. I asked if he could take a picture for me and he said it snowed 2 days ago and they're not out yet, but he will when they come back. There's not a type of MG that could be really harmful is there? If not then I will just tell him how to do it and if it works it works, if not, no big deal. I just don't want him to keel over or something. If they are the right type, I can get him to send me tons and tons of them when they arrive.

[tregar]

Yes they are black angular looking seeds. about 4 or so to each pod.

There are none that I know of that are poisonous. Just don't eat them or somatic discomfort can result--cramping and sickness. Best to extract with water.

[Lookyhere]

Cool. Thanks. When I was talking to him earlier I told him to check this site out so he did. Then he started reading a little about MG and I told him about it. Then he branched off somewhere else (some news site I think) and started reading about how teens are abusing it and it can kill them and all this stuff. I read that you should only do it once every 2 weeks or so on the link above, so I will let him know that too. Thanks again.

[tregar]

When I prepare my water extraction, I put the pint jar with spring water and tebag stapled shut with the finely crushed (electric coffee ground) seeds on top a portable magnetic stirrer (battery powered) or an ac powered lab stirrer and throw in a stir magnet...within seconds a white funnel cloud of salt looking actives will stream out of the teabag into the water for a good 15 to 20 minutes...when the funnel cloud stops, you can stop....the water will be crystal clear except for the white clouding by the actives...set the stirrer on a desk and watch it work...works every time....only the actives come out of the teabag since they are polar and dissolve in water (esp if acidified)...the nonpolar nauseating crap stays in the teabag...after 45 minutes or so throw the teabag away. Blend the water on a blender for 3 minutes then Drink the water. Pull up a dropper full of the water and put it in front of a blacklight--it will glow whitishblue if you were successful...that's all there is to it.

[SpiralFree]

Would lime juice work? Or does any juice have to used?

[SpiralFree]

FOAF tried this, nothing happened after a one hour extraction.

[tregar]

I've had many failed extractions as well, except for the one that worked extremely well where I used the technique above.

Tools needed: blacklight, medicine dropper pippette, lab stir plate and stir magnet, empty teabag, stapler to staple teabag shut, 1 liter jar to hold the water and teabag while it sits on the stirplate.
Also: distilled or spring water only, coffee grinder to grind seeds to a fine dust. The actives are contained in the hard white rubbery like embryon deep inside the seed...those are the parts that will stream out of the teabag and into the water and congregate all along the bottom when the stirring stops. Acidify water to ph=4 or so. Foil is good to cover jar to keep light out. Solution should be crystal clear when the stirring stops except for white like actives.

Grind the seeds very well in coffee grinder tell it's just a fine powder.

Best to move on to mushrooms or cactus if you continue to get weak or no results.

Morning glory seeds do not seem to be consistent in their effects.

Buy a 4 foot black light tube to check to see if a dropper full of your water glows a bright blue-white color...the sucessful trip I had with them glowed bright blue/white.

You can find a long blacklight tube for $20 to $40 or so at your local party store or gift store in the mall.

If it does not glow then they are either weak seeds or extraction failed.

I'll post a pic later if I can find it.

[malefacter]

how much seed should be used for a dose?

[tregar]

6 to 8 grams are first time dose.

Just don't combine with ephedrine or caffeine and make sure you don't get vasoconstrictive effects from the low dose (6 to 8 grams) before moving on to larger doses.

However I've noticed strong anti-depressant effects from as little as 2 to 3 grams.

Wikipedia:

The seeds of many species of morning glory contain ergot alkaloids such as the hallucinogenic ergonovine and ergine (LSA). Seeds of I. tricolor and I. corymbosa (syn. R. corymbosa) are used as hallucinogens. The seeds can produce similar effect to LSD when taken in the hundreds. Though the chemical LSA is illegal to posess in pure form, the seeds are found in many gardening stores. They should not be taken by people with a history of liver disorders or hepatitis. They should not be taken by pregnant women as they can cause uterine contraction which can lead to miscarriage. Individuals with a history of cardiovascular disease (Heart attack, blood clot, and stroke) or a family history of such problems, and the elderly should avoid consuming these seeds due to their vasoconstrictive effects.[2][3][4]

[Shadowlord]

As a Devotee of LSD, LSA definitely intrigues me.
My question is this:
I have read that eating the seeds is bad for your liver and not for people with liver problems ( Hep C etc ).
Is this still true after the extraction? The LSA itself isn't a liver load is it?
ANyways, with the scarcity of LSD these days, LSA and Mescaline are sounding like the way to go.
Have a great day all!

[SpiralFree]

Originally Posted by Shadowlord

As a Devotee of LSD, LSA definitely intrigues me.
My question is this:
I have read that eating the seeds is bad for your liver and not for people with liver problems ( Hep C etc ).
Is this still true after the extraction? The LSA itself isn't a liver load is it?
ANyways, with the scarcity of LSD these days, LSA and Mescaline are sounding like the way to go.
Have a great day all!

a FOAF commented to quickly prior and can vouch. He has an under developed liver and suffered no ill effects at all with cold water extraction.

[SpiralFree]

a friend of mine would like people to know that the vessel constriction is a bit of a huge warning for something that shouldn't be a *huge* worry.

He has stage 2 pre-hyper tension and pretty high blood pressure and did around 13 grams with no "tingles" in his hands or feet.

[Sidestreet Getaway]

Thanks everyone for this thread. I've had a big bag of MG seeds sitting around for a few years, but I didn't try extracting because I'd only read all the complex and dangerous-sounding teks. If I didn't have stuff to do today, I'd make some tea right now!

[SpiralFree]

Originally Posted by tregar

However I've noticed strong anti-depressant effects from as little as 2 to 3 grams.

a FOAF has noticed this as well.

[tregar]

My conclusions after extracting MG seeds for over 2 years is that they just aren't worth it imho.

I have 5 files on the seeds as I have collected information for about 2 years as well...and spent a good amount of money trying to get the seeds to work....I'm calling it quits. It's sad I know but I gotta move on.

They are just too damn weak. You get weak effects for about 3 to 4 hours but it's kind of sedating and you don't really trip at all. Sometimes you feel like you just want to go to sleep after taking it.

If you really want to trip and experience strong antidepressant effects and euphoria then just extract yourself some good ole' mescaline. Incredible stuff. Very similar to LSD. I've done mescaline over 20 times now. and LSD some 200 times.

I agree with this guy:

I have ten Stipa robusta plants growing outside and I experimented with it for about a year. My conclusion is that it does not have visionary effects. It is a tranquilizer par excellence, and has strong sedative effects that last about 3 hours and is free of side-effects.

Between 1972 and 1983, K Trout ate Ipomea Violacea seeds or seed extracts several dozen times with wildly varying results ranging from powerfully colorful visuals to sedative effects. The highest amount he evaluated during those years was around 2000 heavenly blue seeds, but usually about 300 seeds were used. K TROUT also consumed Argyreia nervosa seeds about 20 times using amounts from 10 to 24 seeds and he reported colorful visuals resulting each time. However, he also reported that in every instance of either seeds there was at least some sedative component.