DATURA??

[makecakelate]

I FOUND A PLANT THAT HAS THOSE THORNY APPLE LOOKING THINGS THAT DATURA HAS. I LOOKED AT PICTURES OF DATURA AND THE ONLY SIMILAR THING IS THE THORNY APPLE AND THERE IS NO FLOWERS. CAN ANYONE HELP ME IDENTIFY THIS PLANT??

[Titus]

If it's small it might be a cocklebur

[Titus]

If it's small it might be a cocklebur,
these look deceptively like small thornapples IMO.
Could that be it?

If it is you can bet that it's growing in very nutrient rich soil.
Cocklebur plants only grow in high grade soil

[makecakelate]

ITS LIKE 3-4 INCHES LONG AND 2 INCES WIDE. ITS PRETTY BIG. I CANT FIND ANYTHING ABOUT IT OTHER THAN THE THORNY THING LOOKS LIKE PART OF THE DATURA PLANT

[Titus]

well it beats the heck out of me then if it's that big.
Is this even the fruiting season for thornapple?

[makecakelate]

i have no idea. i dont know what else this thing could be. it is on a vine

[cactuswren]

I just had a flash-back to the early 70's when the Castaneda books became popular here in NM. There were record numbers of emergency room admittances for Scolpolamine/Atropine poisoning. Never having actually read the books or any information about Datura, young people were ingesting large amounts of the seeds in hopes of having what they heard was an LSD like experience. A young man from my high school was in the hospital for a week after taking what he was sold as "organic mescaline." Turns out it was a crude Datura seed extract. They are abundant here and have beautiful looking and smelling flowers that bloom at night. The rest of the plant literaly stinks; stink weed being one of its many nicknames. The "devils snare" is my favorite nick-name I've heard it called. It would be simple to go on-line and print great photos of different Datura's in order to identify it to avoid eating it. The Jimson Weed here certainly isn't a vine. Maybe it's Datura metal, Zombie cucumber, [I kid you not] a common weed in the Nightshade family that contains tropane alkaloids. Don't eat the Zombie cucumber; it is the devils salad!

[omentheduck]

does the plant have a very strong distinct smell?

[AmBe]

Datura is one thing I will never willing ingest.
If you do, be sure and post a trip report.

[twoguysupnorth]

i dont know where you are but the seed pods should be in the late summer, if there are pods there wouldnt be flowers on the plant at the same time(illinois). i tend to agree that the seeds arent really enjoyable, 20-30 seeds just seems to mess with my eyes and stomach.

[darklordofaudio]

Sounds to me like wild cucumber. These things are common in Californian chaparral country, I've seen them on dayhikes since I was a kid. The fruit strongly resembles that of datura, but the plant itself is, like you said, a creeping vine, not a shrub or tree.

On Wikipedia, the plant is listed as having a number of medicinal uses, including a claim that the seeds of one species are hallucinogenic. Could this have come from some poor soul that mistook datura for wild cucumber? Or are we on the verge of finding a new botanical treat?

[DarkLestor]

Tred lightly with datura. Very lightly if at all...

[yerbaadam]

...UnlEss you Want to ENd uP LiKE me

[the jesus]

Ah so that's what happened.

[ShroomGuerilla]

Do NOT do it unless you are a veteran of psychedelics. I did it when i was a stupid 17 year old on a school trip to Central America.

I didn't know anything about it at the time, some local was telling me and my buddy that the locals consume a plant that produces serious hallucinations. Starved for drugs on the school trip, a hallucinogenic plant seemed ever delicious. Returning to our camp we noticed that one of the plants the local had showed us was right beside our cabin. After consuming the datura tea the onset took forever until Boom! I was so fucked I hardly remember the first few hours. I lost my sense of reality, my hallucinations seemed to be real. The whole time I thought I was being followed by a crippled kid with a deformed face. Im pretty sure it was a dog in reality. My teachers started to notice that my friend and I were fucked out of our gourds. One told me to wait on this path and not move until he returned. He left down the path and I started to freakout being alone so I followed the path my teacher went down. I saw him standing near a tree with my whole class talking about the tree and all the different things growing on it. He takes one look at me and come charging over "What are you doing here?" he asked me. "Listening to you, trying to be a part of the class," I said. "What class?" he says. I turn around and NOBODY is there. Next thing I know Im being driven in a rickety van-ambulance to a hospital. During the ride my leg kept turing into crippled deformed kid. In the hospital i really wanted a cigarette, I would would start to think that i had on between my fingers, but almost every time i would nod off or fall asleep I would be jarred awake thinking a burning cigarette was on me, freaking out the nurses hourly. After an charcoal pump, a plane ride, and an explusion later. I knew what datura was. DO NOT DO IT.

[Beastmaster]

Dudes, we don't even know if what he has is datura, no need to lecture on how dangerous datura is til we know what he actually has. All this scary talk and you might get the guy so excited to try the forbidden datura that he'll end up eating something that its not.

If you want a plant identified, WORDS, EVEN IF CAPITALIZED, ARE NOT USEFUL FOR IDENTIFYING PLANTS. PICTURES, NOW THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY.

Attached are pics of a southern california datura wrightii. Not sure what differentiates it from meteloides, or even inoxia, though i'm pretty sure one of those is supposedly more of a bush than a sprawling vine like thing.

The wild cucumber does not grow out in this type of desert, you'll find the wild cucumber in more forested regions. Also the wild cucumber has tiny white flowers, and lots of those viney tendrils that grab onto things.

One major difference, is that if you break or rub a leaf, if its one of the daturas it should have a very strong musty, peanut buttery smell. The cucumber will not.

[Doctor D]

Originally Posted by Beastmaster

If you want a plant identified, WORDS, EVEN IF CAPITALIZED, ARE NOT USEFUL FOR IDENTIFYING PLANTS.

Good to know...

It is pretty early in the season for datura, and VERY early for seed pods, regardless of your latitude. I am in USDA Zone 6 and my plants are only about a foot and a half tall, with few mature leaves. BM's right, the leaves do stink. (Never equated their smell to peanut butter, though)

[makecakelate]

well its not datura. its wild cucumber. does anyone know if you can eat it or use it for anything?

[Myc]

These photos were taken in September. I think it's too early for Datura to be flowering or producing seed pods.

Personally, I would avoid these types of alkaloids. They are pretty dangerous, producing a dissociative high (as described above) with the user being unable to discern whether he is "tripping" or not.

[twoguysupnorth]

i am not sure about the cucumbers, if they are usefull in any way. myc is that just one plant? wow.

[Beastmaster]

As far as I know the Wild Cucumber is a pretty useless plant. That was, until I read the article in Wikipedia on wild cucumbers....

One interesting thing about the Wild Cucumber is the massive root that forms under the plant, often weighing up to 100 lbs. The natives called this plant "Manroot" for that reason.

Well, I was gonna say the manroot is useless, but if you read the wikipedia article on Wild Cucumber you will find that the Native American tribes that shared territory with the various species of this plant had a few uses for it. There's several species of this plant distributed throughout Western North America, and with overlapping ranges at that. So identifying to species could prove difficult.

Why identify to species? I don't want to take the fun of internet research away from ya'll, that wiki article has lots of good info. The plant itself has uses, two of which I think are potentially of interest to members of this site.

[Sinewave]

Originally Posted by cactuswren

Never having actually read the books or any information about Datura, young people were ingesting large amounts of the seeds in hopes of having what they heard was an LSD like experience.

Funny too. There's only one of his 10-12 books that discusses hallucinogenic plants. And the Datura story is nothing at all like an LSD experience.

[Myc]

Originally Posted by twoguysupnorth

myc is that just one plant? wow.

Yes!
That is a single plant in the photo. It was between 6 and 8 feet along its longest axis and about 3 to 4 feet across. I've tried propagating some seeds from this plant but they won't germinate. Will probably try again when the weather's hotter.

[barngoddess]

My datura seeds have sprouted outdoors in Zone 5 and are about 1 1/2
inches high as we speak. Leaves are getting bigger (penny-sized), but these puppies get HUGE leaves on them and the flowers are big enough that humming birds go into them! That is so cool! The scent is intoxicating! I just cannot go without these beautiful plants.

[twoguysupnorth]

its good to know if they are going to get that big. i have several varieties to try this yr. i might want to keep them in pots or just spread them around the yard. i had 1 plant in a pot so far and it has stayed much smaller.

[makecakelate]

well i just found a bunch a datura plants around where i live i guess i never noticed them before. i picked on of the flowers and am drying it out. ive never had any experiences with this kind of plant so im hesitant to try.

[twoguysupnorth]

i was surprised to learn that some smoke the leaves, i dont know about the flower itself. what you want though is the seed pod after the flower matures and dies and makes seeds, if you are looking to use it or plant it.

[Hippie3]

you are right to hesitate.

Student cuts off penis and tongue after drinking hallucinogenic tea
Ananova - Story filed: 10:45 Tuesday 23rd September 2003 A student cut off his own penis and his tongue after drinking an infusion of the latest drugs craze to sweep Germany.
The 18-year-old, only named as Andreas W, from Halle in Germany drank a tea made with the hallucinogenic angels' trumpet plants.
His mother said: "Andreas was behaving normally the whole day until he left the house and disappeared into the garden for a couple of minutes."
When he returned to the house he was wearing a towel wrapped around him and was bleeding heavily from his mouth and between his legs.
The emergency doctor who arrived a few minutes later said the student had cut off his penis and his tongue with garden shears and it was impossible to reattach the organs.
Dr Andreas Marneros, from the local psychiatric hospital the student was admitted to, said: "Andreas will have to receive psychological help for years. Tea from Angels' Trumpets is extremely dangerous as the drug cannot be dosed."
Angels' Trumpets, known for their fragrant and trumpet shaped flowers, have increasingly become popular as an alternative drug in Germany.

from http://mv.lycaeum.org/mu/datura.html

[Skatterman420]

Originally Posted by ShroomGuerilla

Do NOT do it unless you are a veteran of psychedelics. I did it when i was a stupid 17 year old on a school trip to Central America.

I didn't know anything about it at the time, some local was telling me and my buddy that the locals consume a plant that produces serious hallucinations. Starved for drugs on the school trip, a hallucinogenic plant seemed ever delicious. Returning to our camp we noticed that one of the plants the local had showed us was right beside our cabin. After consuming the datura tea the onset took forever until Boom! I was so fucked I hardly remember the first few hours. I lost my sense of reality, my hallucinations seemed to be real. The whole time I thought I was being followed by a crippled kid with a deformed face. Im pretty sure it was a dog in reality. My teachers started to notice that my friend and I were fucked out of our gourds. One told me to wait on this path and not move until he returned. He left down the path and I started to freakout being alone so I followed the path my teacher went down. I saw him standing near a tree with my whole class talking about the tree and all the different things growing on it. He takes one look at me and come charging over "What are you doing here?" he asked me. "Listening to you, trying to be a part of the class," I said. "What class?" he says. I turn around and NOBODY is there. Next thing I know Im being driven in a rickety van-ambulance to a hospital. During the ride my leg kept turing into crippled deformed kid. In the hospital i really wanted a cigarette, I would would start to think that i had on between my fingers, but almost every time i would nod off or fall asleep I would be jarred awake thinking a burning cigarette was on me, freaking out the nurses hourly. After an charcoal pump, a plane ride, and an explusion later. I knew what datura was. DO NOT DO IT.

Wow, I've heard this trip report so many times, it seems this is common with people who end up going to the hospital from it. And the cigarette thing happens to everyone on the shit. Listen to this man people.

In my opinion the factors making someone "able" to doit is their body.
You need very strong guts to keep from being poisoned, and the dehydration is unbareable up until your start being delerious then you don't even notice, and that can be a big problem.

[Skatterman420]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

you are right to hesitate.

from http://mv.lycaeum.org/mu/datura.html

A friend of mine who is not deceased, was on them at a friends grandparents house and was found by the grandma flushing a towel down the toilet, when she asked what he was doing he said Cleaning.

Lady Datura can be very cruel, I noticed you can almost see her if you know to look, when under the influence of Datura. It seemed like I would always have a figure looking like "Death" in my peripherals.

Another thing I noticed I was looking straight ahead and in my peripherals everything on my table was in motion, but when you focus, there are no visuals.