lophophora ?

[twoguysupnorth]

lophophoras dont need another cactus for pollination do they? how old would you say a 2" plant is? it isnt grafted.

[prism1234]

Good question!

I am listening intently... My friends are so Tiny!! I got quite a while to wait!! My Bridgesi are kickin arse tho!!!

[rocketman]

Lophs are self fertilizing.

[twoguysupnorth]

here are the babies started around the time that you started yours prism. i think they are torch.




thanks rocket

[prism1234]

Hmmm...

Yours look bigger than mine...

[stormer88]

Originally Posted by rocketman

Lophs are self fertilizing.

Not all lophs are self fertilizing.

[rocketman]

Which ones are not, and please do cite your source.

[Myc]

Originally Posted by rocketman

Which ones are not, and please do cite your source.

I've done a lot of reading and haven't seen that info. either. I would be interested to see that study as it would blow a lot of my theories about self-pollinating plants out of the water.
I just presumed that, by nature, plants as sparse and spread out as Lophs would need to be self pollinating in order to reproduce.

[spacecake]

Originally Posted by twoguysupnorth

how old would you say a 2" plant is? it isnt grafted.

4-7 years ..maybe ?

[twoguysupnorth]

wow, really? older than i thought. 4 doesnt seem far off from what i had imagined though. its one of the things i hope to order soon, a mature flowering/fruiting plant for the "now" and some seed for growing. its the cheapest mature one they have at about $25 or $12.50 lbs. i wont eat it, but is this about the size you would harvest at if you were?

[stormer88]

According to many reports the Peyote in the southern areas are self sterile while Peyote in the Northern regions are self fertile. I'm no expert but here's a link that goes in depth on exactly which variations are self fertile and which are not.

http://www.cactusconservation.org/CCI/cslm01.html

[rocketman]

That pretty much says they dont know if some arent self fertile doesnt it, or am i reading that wrong.

[spacecake]

Originally Posted by twoguysupnorth

but is this about the size you would harvest at if you were?

Hmm,I would wait twice as long and take a couple of them to be sure...

[stormer88]

Originally Posted by rocketman

That pretty much says they dont know if some arent self fertile doesnt it, or am i reading that wrong.

I think what it is saying that that specific variation they don't know yet. I don't believe there is any question that some variations are self fertile while others aren't. They just havn't had a chance to test all variations as of yet.

"We know that the northern populations of L. williamsii (including all of the known US populations and most probably the Coahuilan plants) are self-fertile. This means that they outcross very little and within a given population there is little to no genetic diversity among individuals. "
(Based on the preliminary DNA data published in Chapter IV of Dr. Terry's dissertation.)

For example: if you wanted a variation that was self fertile you could go with L Williamsii v Texana. If you wanted Self sterile L W. v El Huizache. However with Lophophora williamsii v Tamaulipas they don't know which category it falls in SF or SS but it looks identical to the Northern populations specimens found in Texas. They are presently doing tests to decide if it is also self fertile like the Texas specimens.

I may be reading it wrong also. If i am please correct me.

[twoguysupnorth]

thanks space and everybody else. it sounds like they know for certain some varieties are self fertile and at least one isnt, with an unknown too.

[Kadass]

williamsii is self fertile.

diffusa, koehresii and fricii are self-sterile.

this is confirmed by many growers/breeders.

i have not been able to cross any with each other except fricii father to koehresii mother, strangely it doesn't work the other way around...at least with my plants.

i have the begginings of it online if you want to see.....but i have been very slow adding to it cause it takes a while to edit and i am lazy!
http://kadasgarden.com/Lophophorachart.html

[stormer88]

SO I take it from reading your info that most of your collection is self sterile? Have you ever had any success self fertalizing a Williamsii specimen? How about your Texana specimens?

ISn't it true that even if you did self fertilize a specimen that the seeds coming from it's fruit would be less and possibly not as viable than from a cross with 2 parent Williamsii's?

I've read this assumption on many forums but I don't think anybody has actually stated that from personal experience. I can understand how the assumption is made. I know working with MJ plants attempting to create feminized seeds with pollen from a female stressed to gain male pollen sacks it's a big no no to self fertilize it because the seeds that would come from it would be inbreds and much higher likelihood to sprout sickly if at all. It's like a brother impregnating it's sister.

Wouldn't that be also true with Williamsii?

[Kadass]

no, williamsii are self fertile. i have seen it mentioned as well that some are not, but all mine are....

the similarity in flower and ability to cross is what makes me think fricii and koehresii are far more closely related to each other than the others.
but who knows....

seeds from selfed plants will still be fully viable in my experience. wha tthe disadvantage is is you get far fewer seeds (i get 1-5 usually from selfed and 10-30 from crossed) and the resulting plants may or may not be weaker/stronger. but germ rates are the same as far as i can tell.



texana is williamsii, its just a locale. just like africans, asians, europeans etc... all humans and can breed. so being a williamsii, it is self fertile

[stormer88]

Ok. Thanks for clearing that up. I had read your info wrong.

As for L W Texana. I know they are just a localle I was interested in them because the specimens I've seen especially the ones you've posted have those swirly tufts unlike specimens from other locales. I bet they flower quite beautifully. It's interesting how they can change in appearance from Locale to locale. Adding to my collection I'm hoping after a few years I can have a few specimens from many areas.

Thanks for clearing up my assumption on fruits from self fertilized specimens. I take it what your saying is while the fruits are not any less viable they are much fewer.

Your web sight is very informative to a beginner like myself I go between your sight and the Lophophora blog daily. I hope some day to have 1/10th the knowledge and experience as you have regarding this species.