Desmanthus for DMT

misteratheister · 06-25-08, 19:01

I have been browsing the Internet for pictures of Desmanthus Illinoesis and Desmanthus Leptobolus, and while i have found many pictures of what these plants look like, I live in an area that has MANY species of Desmanthus, most of which little to no pictures exist. My main concern is identifying the correct plants that contain DMT. Since I can find little information on the various species of Desmanthus in the area which I live, I find it hard to try to identify the particular species. Desmanthus Illinoesis has a peculiar bundle of seed pods which makes it easy to identify, but my prime concern is that I could harvest one of the many species of Desmanthus which I cannot find an accurate identification key for. I have no idea what these species of Desmanthus contain, and I fear that some may have potentially harmful chemicals in them. Is there anyone experienced in the identification of these plants that could guide me to a source which has information on ALL the species of Desmanthus, or at least information on the ones which do not contain DMT? I simply wish to make sure that the end result will be a pure product, and not poison. I've been perusing the web on DMT-containing products for purchase, but they all seem so expensive when I have DMT growing not 100 feet away.

WilliamsEyeLophori · 06-25-08, 22:21

im looking for the desmantus illinois as well, found some smallish fern like plants but no strange seed pod, i read full to partial sun esp full, by rivers, railroads, fields, ... you could always buy seeds, but harvest would probably be next year... good luck

sangraal · 06-25-08, 22:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by WilliamsEyeLophori

im looking for the desmantus illinois as well, found some smallish fern like plants but no strange seed pod, i read full to partial sun esp full, by rivers, railroads, fields, ... you could always buy seeds, but harvest would probably be next year... good luck

I forget the name of the seed company (it wasn't an ethnobotanical company), but I purchased a few hundred seed for around $6-7 of the Illinois Bundleweed roughly this time of the year a few years back. They grew reasonably well in the climate, even just as seeds after soaking them in water/peroxide solution overnight. I presume that if the plants are growing wild in your area, then it's not so much different than mine...

An adult Desmanthus reminds me of a small American Mimosa tree, it's leaf structure is very similar.

But I can understand the necessity in determining which sp. of Desmanthus is growing in your yard, they should be about ready to harvest. I honestly cannot tell one from another as having only grown Illinois. Are there any colleges in the area that may have someone that specializes in plants?

WilliamsEyeLophori · 06-26-08, 03:52

hey, sengrall, did you harvest the rootbark? how long did you wait to harvest? i ask beacuse i dont know how long i can hold out here, in my town, usa, hardy zone 6a or b, i wonder if cubes will grow out doors?

mycot · 07-02-08, 01:54

The study of desmanthus species for Dmt is maybe still a little in its infancy.
I think it was J. appleseed who went round and tested via TLC a number of Desmantus species for the presence of Dmt and liked the alkaloid profile of D. leptolobus and indicated lower amounts of Dmt in a number of other species.

D.illioensis on which a paper was published that indicated relatively high alkaloid levels is since believed to highy variable in alkaloid levels with many strains testing relatively low.
If the same is true of a number of the other species (D. leptolobus seems an exception in having a consistantly good profile) then with a Tlc kit or some other means of assaying ( eg...paper chromatography is cheap and much simpler than Tlc. Mini A/B extractions is also a means of testing provided one has some means of recognizing the final product with a little accuracy) one may chance upon a good strain.

Good Luck.

misteratheister · 07-18-08, 08:29

I have found reliable sources of identification of the desmanthus species in the good, wholesome, local library. It appears that there was one particular botanist who took it upon himself to provide accurate identification of the Desmanthus species in my local area. Coincidentally, he was a professor at my local university many, many years ago. From what I have been seeing in the forums, however, I will need a MASSIVE amount of Desmanthus leptobolus/illinois to get a proper amount of DMT. Somewhere in the vicinity of 100gr/dose? Is that somewhere close to correct? I'm just curious to know how much I should harvest, and whether it would be a worthy cause. Any additional information/experience would be much appreciated.

marsofold · 07-18-08, 15:27

Desmanthus Leptolobus seems to be the best plant source for home-grown DMT in climates where winter is just slightly below freezing. First, it flowers and makes seeds the first year of growth. This is important because the plant does not have to survive the winter. And while Trout thinks the rootbark may be more potent after three years of growth, I am not convinced at all that it is absolutely necessary to get tolerable yields. The jury is still out concerning Leptolobus' ability to survive truly hard winters. While it's much weaker cousin Desmanthus Illinoisis certainly is cold-hardy, a USDA map of Leptolobus' native range extends no further north than central Missouri. At about the 39th parallel north:

http://plants.usda.gov/java/county?s...9&symbol=DELE2

Trout, however, claims that Leptolobus has been found natively as far north as Nebraska. Seeds from this latitude could be the holy grail of DMT. Second, it seems to have tolerable concentrations of DMT in the rootbark. Although I never extracted it, Trout's excellent book on it ("Cultivation of Desmanthus for Rootbark Production" - Moksha Press) claims that it reliably yields in the 0.1% range by percentage dry weight. This equates to around nine doses per pound. Third, the alkaloid profile seems favorable, that is - mostly DMT (subjectively determined by personal trips). I once did two extractions of Illinoisis. Commercially purchased products from two different places. Both extractions yielded within 10% of each other. I obtained roughly 1.5 doses (83milligrams) per 409 grams of whole root. That's right, it takes a half pound of whole root to get one single dose. So yeah, Illinoisis is too weak to bother with. But at nine doses per pound from Leptolobus, if a bulk TEK were used it could be quite practical to do once a year. If there is much interest, I'll post the A/B TEK I used for Desmanthus. It differs slightly from my old Marsofold TEK a bit.

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06-25-08, 19:01	#1 (permalink)
misteratheister Mycophiliac Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 27	Desmanthus for DMT I have been browsing the Internet for pictures of Desmanthus Illinoesis and Desmanthus Leptobolus, and while i have found many pictures of what these plants look like, I live in an area that has MANY species of Desmanthus, most of which little to no pictures exist. My main concern is identifying the correct plants that contain DMT. Since I can find little information on the various species of Desmanthus in the area which I live, I find it hard to try to identify the particular species. Desmanthus Illinoesis has a peculiar bundle of seed pods which makes it easy to identify, but my prime concern is that I could harvest one of the many species of Desmanthus which I cannot find an accurate identification key for. I have no idea what these species of Desmanthus contain, and I fear that some may have potentially harmful chemicals in them. Is there anyone experienced in the identification of these plants that could guide me to a source which has information on ALL the species of Desmanthus, or at least information on the ones which do not contain DMT? I simply wish to make sure that the end result will be a pure product, and not poison. I've been perusing the web on DMT-containing products for purchase, but they all seem so expensive when I have DMT growing not 100 feet away.

07-18-08, 08:29	#6 (permalink)
misteratheister Mycophiliac Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 27	quantities? I have found reliable sources of identification of the desmanthus species in the good, wholesome, local library. It appears that there was one particular botanist who took it upon himself to provide accurate identification of the Desmanthus species in my local area. Coincidentally, he was a professor at my local university many, many years ago. From what I have been seeing in the forums, however, I will need a MASSIVE amount of Desmanthus leptobolus/illinois to get a proper amount of DMT. Somewhere in the vicinity of 100gr/dose? Is that somewhere close to correct? I'm just curious to know how much I should harvest, and whether it would be a worthy cause. Any additional information/experience would be much appreciated.

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06-25-08, 22:21	#2 (permalink)
WilliamsEyeLophori cyborg slunk Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 74	im looking for the desmantus illinois as well, found some smallish fern like plants but no strange seed pod, i read full to partial sun esp full, by rivers, railroads, fields, ... you could always buy seeds, but harvest would probably be next year... good luck

06-26-08, 03:52	#4 (permalink)
WilliamsEyeLophori cyborg slunk Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 74	hey, sengrall, did you harvest the rootbark? how long did you wait to harvest? i ask beacuse i dont know how long i can hold out here, in my town, usa, hardy zone 6a or b, i wonder if cubes will grow out doors?

07-02-08, 01:54	#5 (permalink)
mycot Mycotopiate Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 254	The study of desmanthus species for Dmt is maybe still a little in its infancy. I think it was J. appleseed who went round and tested via TLC a number of Desmantus species for the presence of Dmt and liked the alkaloid profile of D. leptolobus and indicated lower amounts of Dmt in a number of other species. D.illioensis on which a paper was published that indicated relatively high alkaloid levels is since believed to highy variable in alkaloid levels with many strains testing relatively low. If the same is true of a number of the other species (D. leptolobus seems an exception in having a consistantly good profile) then with a Tlc kit or some other means of assaying ( eg...paper chromatography is cheap and much simpler than Tlc. Mini A/B extractions is also a means of testing provided one has some means of recognizing the final product with a little accuracy) one may chance upon a good strain. Good Luck.

07-18-08, 15:27	#7 (permalink)
marsofold Mycotopiate Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 345	Desmanthus Leptolobus seems to be the best plant source for home-grown DMT in climates where winter is just slightly below freezing. First, it flowers and makes seeds the first year of growth. This is important because the plant does not have to survive the winter. And while Trout thinks the rootbark may be more potent after three years of growth, I am not convinced at all that it is absolutely necessary to get tolerable yields. The jury is still out concerning Leptolobus' ability to survive truly hard winters. While it's much weaker cousin Desmanthus Illinoisis certainly is cold-hardy, a USDA map of Leptolobus' native range extends no further north than central Missouri. At about the 39th parallel north: http://plants.usda.gov/java/county?s...9&symbol=DELE2 Trout, however, claims that Leptolobus has been found natively as far north as Nebraska. Seeds from this latitude could be the holy grail of DMT. Second, it seems to have tolerable concentrations of DMT in the rootbark. Although I never extracted it, Trout's excellent book on it ("Cultivation of Desmanthus for Rootbark Production" - Moksha Press) claims that it reliably yields in the 0.1% range by percentage dry weight. This equates to around nine doses per pound. Third, the alkaloid profile seems favorable, that is - mostly DMT (subjectively determined by personal trips). I once did two extractions of Illinoisis. Commercially purchased products from two different places. Both extractions yielded within 10% of each other. I obtained roughly 1.5 doses (83milligrams) per 409 grams of whole root. That's right, it takes a half pound of whole root to get one single dose. So yeah, Illinoisis is too weak to bother with. But at nine doses per pound from Leptolobus, if a bulk TEK were used it could be quite practical to do once a year. If there is much interest, I'll post the A/B TEK I used for Desmanthus. It differs slightly from my old Marsofold TEK a bit.