spice ?s

[mdbnkc]

ok so a foaf who doesn't have the internet got some mhrb and is attempting an extraction. They are in the middle of the emulsions step right now. he read it isn't really necessary with mhrb to defat,so he had a few ?s:

is he safe that this will still work?

if so which layer will he evap from? the black one?

would it take longer to evaporate since its not naptha? (assuming so).

and if it does, could he just freeze it?

Thanks for all the help and he's still got another ounce to give it another try if he messes this one up. The BBB store is located less than an hour away from him so he's not really worried about waste. Thanks a lot!

o ya i 4got to add he did add acid if this makes a difference.

[Shadowlord]

You don't have to do a defat but you will still be using Naptha.
You mix the powdered bark w/ the lye/water ( basic water ) and mix together and then you add Naptha. After gently tumbling gently to mix once an hour you can start pulling the Naptha in 4hrs min up to 24 hrs later. Add more Naptha to the black gunk for a total of three times.
You evaporate the Naptha to get the DMT. If you want to try to freeze precipitate it you should evaporate the Naptha down to 1/2 or 1/3 or even 1/4 and put it in the freezer. Your freezer should be cold enough to freeze ice cream hard.
For more detail than this, look at the many teks available here at the 'Topia or at the DMT nexus or the Archives, the list goes on and on. I couldn't believe the amount of info out there on DMT and I thought it was an obscure, rare drug.
Hope that helps!

[nugget]

Ive had pretty good results , grinding the bark up adding 60 graMS of powdered bark to a quart mason jar with 2.5 cups of water + 4 tablespoons of lye , mixing it for 30 minutes with 175 ml of naptha in it then extracting the naptha and drying it
i let the lye water cool before adding the powder though and dont breath that shit in.
in fact hold your breath dump in 4 tablespoons and leave the room for a while.
i do it 2 or three times , the mixing and extracting .. recently i did a third pull a few days later and still got crystals, itll get gooey if you leave the naptha in there a few days but if you just add the naptha when your ready to mix and extract it pulls crystals.

[Norman]

Emulsion step?
What's the emulsion step?
We usually try to avoid emulsions.
What tek are you using that doesn't explain which layer to evaporate?
I'm not trying to be an asshole here, though I guess I'm being one anyway, but you need to read up before you start messing around with this shit.
Can we try, just a little bit, to kill the "Dude, I read about this shit on the internet that get's you fuuuucked uuuup!" stereotype? It just makes it that much harder on all of us.

[Entropymancer]

I'll second that emotion, Norman! I think the OP would do well to reread his tek, and to read my DMT Extraction Overview. And absolutely, do your homework before jumping in, unless you know enough chemistry to freehand your extractions.

[mdbnkc]

Thanks for the replies. I've got the basic idea, just didn't understand that naptha not only defats the solution, but pulls the crsytals as well. I'm following the tek @ erowid and the emuslion step its after you add the naptha and shake it. Actually I don't believe in god so I hope this is a spiritual thing like some say, so it's not to get "fuuuucked uuuup!"

[warrensaged]

mdbnkc,
You really should track down & read as many different teks as you can (both A/B and Straight To Base teks), before starting your first extract!!
Learning what each step is doing and why each is necessary, was key to me refining my method down to getting clear-to-white, crystal shards right out of the freezer!! No recrystallization needed!!

I suggest finding & at least reading "Vovin's Tek"!! (U can find it by searching on this board)
A very detailed & informative, albeit long reading, A/B tek.
IMHO, Straight To Base teks are a fucking mess and almost always require a recrystallization to get a good clean yield. So even though they have less steps & seem like they would take less time, the extra steps in most A/B teks are there to help clean the spice as its being extracted in a very thorough way. So you end up with a cleaner product quicker. Usually.

Trying to do any of this quickly usually results in a low quality yield!! And a fucking mess along the way!
(...and in worst case, you can actually get yourself hurt!! Lye is nothing to monkey around with!!)

...didn't understand that Naptha not only defats the solution, but pulls the crsytals as well

The naptha (non-polar solvent) attracts fats & bases.
When the bark solution is still in its acidic state, doing a naptha mix/separation pulls out unwanted plant fats and is then discarded (defat step). At this time, the DMT is in its acidic state, as liquified DMT salt so it stays in the bark solution.
Once you have basified the bark solution, the DMT is turned into its freebase form, so doing a naptha mix/separation now, pulls out the DMT freebase.
And its now cleaner, because the fats where removed while the DMT was still acidic. So they don't end up being pulled out with your freebase!!

Also, You don't want an emulsion!!!
Do Not Shake the Mixture!!!
Turn it end over end for a good 5 to 15 minutes, depending on the size of your extract!!
Do your reading chap!!

Good Luck!!

WS

[lost_onabbey_rd]

if you were going to defat the solution you would add a small bit of naptha before you add the lye.. at this point your DMT is still a salt, and dissolved in the slightly acidic solution. the naptha would pull out all of the fats (non-polar molecules), and you would suck up that layer of naptha (making sure to get all of it) off the top of the solution and discard it. THEN you add the lye, which knocks the ions off you dmt salt, turning it into a freebase form. Then you do your 3 naptha pulls to extract the freebase from the now very polar solution.
at which point you can either evap the naptha or freeze precipitate and filter out your dmt.
and to answer your other question naptha evaporates much quicker then water.

[nugget]

yea warren your right , my 4th pull was goop, but since i take it orally does it really matter?
since the naptha costs a bit too I try to be conservative with it.

[warrensaged]

my 4th pull was goop, but since i take it orally does it really matter?

Well if the "clean" stuff is white crystal, your "goop" has a ton of impurities in it. Right?
So far you've used HCL, Lye, Naptha and whatever else you may have put in to extract this stuff so if the goop is not just DMT, its probably got a bit more of those other chems in there with the spice to eat.
So the real question is, do you really want to eat leftover lye?
I don't!!

since the naptha costs a bit too I try to be conservative with it.

Little tip for you, If you freeze precipitate your crystals out of the naptha instead of evaporating, you can reuse the naptha for like 3 or 4 more extractions!!
You'll want to use fresh naptha for the defatting step.
But you should save the freebase extraction naptha in a separate container, once you've filtered out the freeze precipped crystals, it can be stored & used for the freebase extraction/freeze precip on your next 3 or 4 extractions!!!
Then, if you like to waste your time (IMHO), you can evaporate that naptha & retrieve any leftover spice that didn't freeze out on the 4 or 5 extraction that is been used on. In my experience, you don't yield enough to bother evaping it. And what you do yield, is yellow & goopy & would requier 2 or more recrystalizations before it was smokable!! Which wouldn't even leave enough spice for a full dose!!
That equals a waste of time in my book!!

Cheers!

WS

[mdbnkc]

Thanks for all the tips warren. I'm definately going to read through a lot more teks before I make a second attempt. I have got the naptha evaporating right now, so I'll report back if I messed it up completely or if it was a success. Again, thanks a lot for all of the help. It is is taken as constructive criticism, because, well I need it. Thanks everyone.

[nugget]

yea , thanks alot man. I might have to rethink my extraction and give that a try.
I especially like the idea of reusing the naptha.
evaporating it I went through quite a bit.

[lost_onabbey_rd]

that red stuff isn't lye or HCL.. both of which for white crsytals.. besides mix NaOH and HCl and you get NaCl (salt) and H20 (water). but since there is alot more lye then HCL if anything you get some extra sodium in your diet.
but the red goop is most likly other alkiloids, dmt is the main one, but most certainly not the only. there is a thread around here somewhere, maybe in the vaults, that goes into detail about the different colored stuff you can get when extracting the rootbark

[warrensaged]

It is is taken as constructive criticism, because, well I need it. Thanks everyone.

Right on, thats all its meant to be!!

I especially like the idea of reusing the naptha.
evaporating it I went through quite a bit.

You'll be rather surprised at how much easier & cleaner freeze precipitating is!!
I evaped my first extraction and what a mess, what a stink, what a lot of work getting that dirty spice scraped up and cleaned and above all, what a waste of time!!!

but the red goop is most likly other alkiloids,

Nobody mentioned red goop, just goop from pulling basified bark solution after the standard extraction was already done.
The "other alkaloids" come out when using Xylene or Toluene after (or instead of) using naptha for your pulls.
I've done a Xylene extraction too and it has to be evaporated because red, oily, shit doesn't freeze out so well, Doesn't smoke so well either!!
...And my god Xylene is a scent from the devil, takes weeks to evaporate that shit too!

If it says anything to you, my buddy & I tried the "jungle spice" (that I took the 2 fucking weeks to evap) just one time each, the rest is still sitting in a drawer!! BTW, that was at least 6 months ago, and I can still smell the Xylene in it!!
No one I know wants it! Especially when there is perfect white crystals to be had much easier!!
I've done 3 good, clean, extractions since then & I'll stick to my clear & white crystals, you can have the oily crap if you so desire.

I guess I don't understand why anyone making their own psychedelics, that they plan to consume themselves, would want to make anything but the cleanest, purest product they possibly could, In the easiest, quickest way possible?!?!?
Maybe thats just me, wouldn't be the first time.

Glad to help turn the world on!!
WS

[Psilo-somatic]

nobody seems to have mentioned the fact that a good portion of the yellow crap you got that most would discard or do cleaning steps to get rid of is quite rich in DMT n-oxide. This can be avoided by adding zinc powder to your basic aqueous phase which converts the n-oxide into freebase before your naptha pulls (you can also use this zinc trick to convert already extracted yellow spice to freebase). You can also do subsequent xylene/toluene pulls to get the rest of the n-oxide as well as red spice. This boosts your yeild quite a bit. good luck and happy trails!

[cheech]

Originally Posted by Psilo-somatic

nobody seems to have mentioned the fact that a good portion of the yellow crap you got that most would discard or do cleaning steps to get rid of is quite rich in DMT n-oxide. This can be avoided by adding zinc powder to your basic aqueous phase which converts the n-oxide into freebase before your naptha pulls (you can also use this zinc trick to convert already extracted yellow spice to freebase). You can also do subsequent xylene/toluene pulls to get the rest of the n-oxide as well as red spice. This boosts your yeild quite a bit. good luck and happy trails!

my cat finds this interesting. elemental zinc is used or it's oxide? gonna read up on this. can you provide some specifics on why this works? my cat has some chem skills. he's a pretty good cat too.....

[Entropymancer]

Elemental Zinc is a reducing agent, I assume it's forming zinc oxide. It's a common technique for reducing amine oxides.

The first reference I've seen with respect to using it on DMT is from a Fish & Horning (1955) analysis of some Anadenathera snuffs. K Trout also commented on the method in his Notes on the Genus Desmanthus. Searching either here or the Nexus, I'm sure you can find the exact quotes.

[mdbnkc]

So last night FOAF did his first pull(ever) when I was there and all he got was this very oily DMT. It was left outsideL(probably 75-90 degrees, very humid) to evaporate overnight (my gf says it actually rained) and will NOT solidify(it's not even crystals) unless frozen, then within a 5 mnutes it when taken out of the freezer it melts again. He's wondering what caused this to happen; he used a STB tek that did not call for defatting. Is this the problem ? I will post pictures tomorrow if he gets the same results freezing it. Again it's not crystalizing, its forming oil. Thanks for all the help.

[warrensaged]

First,
If it rained in your evap dish, don't throw it out yet, but your probably out of luck on that one.
Second,
Start a new extraction. Defat this one!!! (take the time to do it, come on!!)
After you've basified the new bark solution, stir your naptha/water disapointment into it.
Re-check your pH to make sure you've not lowered it too much.
Continue on with your naptha pulls, etc... as normal.
...and freeze precipitate this time!!
Your probably gonna get a larger than normal yeild because you should actually be getting two yeilds!! (or at least close!)
If your wanting fluffy white crystals, you gotta do this as slow as it takes!! You can not rush a good thing!
Hope that helps!
WS

[mdbnkc]

Thanks again warren. I'll try adding the naptha/water to my third and final pull. On my second pull I froze it, and it seems to be crystalizing (haven't brought them down room temp tho). I think I'm gonna drive out to BBB in lawrence this weekend to pick up some more bark. I'll probably get the half pound to have bark to play with for a while. I really appreciate all the help you've given me and with such a broad title any more help I need will be asked here. I love this community and the people in it, they are just good down to earth people.