Mescaline extraction gone wrong - need advice

[wikiwahwah]

Hello

SWIM has attempted his first mescaline extraction and something has gone wrong.

SWIM followed waylitjim's tek to the letter and will summarize what he did here:

1. Ground 100 grams of cacti (bought online) using a coffee grinder until powdered.

2. Mixed caustic soda with distilled water, enough to completely immerse the cacti (4.5oz soda to 0.5 pint water)

3. Put this is mason jar and shook it up.

4. Added xylene to jar and shook it up, left it for 1 hour, shook again then left for 24 hours (see pic)

5. Sucked xylene layer from jar and put in new jar.

6. Mixed hcl with some distilled water and added this to xylene (created half inch layer below xylene)

7. Put in freezer until hcl/water layer had frozen solid

8. Poured xylene back into jar with cacti.

9. Allowed hcl/water to thaw and put into glass pyrex tray.

10. Evaporated off the hcl/water using a desk fan.

11. After everything was evaporated - nothing left in tray!?!


SWIM is unclear what has gone wrong here. He can't see any steps that he has missed. He thinks the most likely culprit is the hcl he bought is not strong enough. Most of the teks he has read state that the hcl will be very strong and to watch out or you could become over powered by the fumes. SWIM could put his nose by the top of the container and it was not over powering at all. Does this suggest its very dilute? The hcl was bought from a builders merchants (see pic). Could anyone suggest a better product to buy - SWIM is based in the uk.

Also, is it possible the purchased cacti may not contain any mescaline? SWIM bought this from a reputable website. Again can anyone suggest a uk based site to purchase from (apologies if this is against forum rules).

SWIM would be grateful for any advice on what might have caused this to happen (he isn't a complete dunce, he has done a succesful DMT extraction).

Thanks

W

[RockyRaccoon]

did you measure the pH of the aqueous layer before decanting the xylene ? you'll have to check the literature to see what pH is needed to completely salt the mescaline . if you don't reach this pH , most of the alkaloid will remain in the organic layer as a freebase .

if you sniffed the surface of the HCl and it didn't make you feel like you were about to die , it is very probably too weak . if you can't find concentrated HCl , remember than you can increase the concentration yourself by adding an amount of dry MgSO4 or CaCl2 to remove the water (beware of evolved HCl gas) .

[mrpanda]

I am not 100% on this but I think your source for HCL is no good. The cleaner I believe has other things in it like surfactants. These are not good for your extraction. 100g is also a very small mount of cactus to be extracting, did you try scraping the dish with a razor? The residue may have been so slight that you can not see it.

[Shadowlord]

Your Hcl is way too dilute is what I am thinking.
If the Hcl you used to add to the water didn't burn your nose sniffing it it is no good.
When I open my bottle of Muriatic Acid ( HCl ) it almost causes you to react instantly. Like a smelling salt put under your nose. There is no way you would have been able to get your nose close enough to it to sniff it. You should see a white plume creeping out of the bottle.
Go to the hardware store and buy some fresh stuff and try again. Luckily, the Xylene should still be good and have all the magic in it still.
Yeah man, you'll know when you have HCl! That stuff is overpowering. That being said, be careful w/it when you get it! It's no joke. And have some vinegar on hand to neutralize it in the worst case scenario of a spill. An ounce of prevention......

I hope all turns out well for you!

[AndyLandy420]

I would definitely refrain from doing any freeze speration of any kind, heat speeds all reactions and increases solubilty, i do most every step as hot as can be, solvent (or water) will absorb your desirables quicker and hold more.

[AndyLandy420]

Originally Posted by Shadowlord

Yeah man, you'll know when you have HCl! That stuff is overpowering. That being said, be careful w/it when you get it! It's no joke. And have some vinegar on hand to neutralize it in the worst case scenario of a spill. An ounce of prevention.

Vinegar(acetic acid) will not neutralize HCl (hydrochloric acid). Baking soda(NaHCO3) could be used to neutralize HCl as it is basic. Vinegar could be useful in neutralizing lye(NaOH).

good thing you have never had a spill lol

[Shadowlord]

Originally Posted by AndyLandy420

Vinegar(acetic acid) will not neutralize HCl (hydrochloric acid). Baking soda(NaHCO3) could be used to neutralize HCl as it is basic. Vinegar could be useful in neutralizing lye(NaOH).

good thing you have never had a spill lol

You're 100% correct! That's what I was thinking of, Lye, not HCl. I am glad you caught that. Sorry for the Misinformation everyone.

[EmmisonJ]

like i've heard on here before, garbage in / garbage out
that means the better chemicals you get to work with the better the results.

is your caustic soda 100% pure NaOH granules?
is your hcl acid 33%? (i believe that's what waylitjim used)


if your acid is too weak then it's possible the good stuff is still in the xylene. that happened to me in a dream.

[whatchamacallit]

Originally Posted by Shadowlord

Your Hcl is way too dilute is what I am thinking.
If the Hcl you used to add to the water didn't burn your nose sniffing it it is no good.
When I open my bottle of Muriatic Acid ( HCl ) it almost causes you to react instantly. Like a smelling salt put under your nose. There is no way you would have been able to get your nose close enough to it to sniff it. You should see a white plume creeping out of the bottle.
Go to the hardware store and buy some fresh stuff and try again. Luckily, the Xylene should still be good and have all the magic in it still.
Yeah man, you'll know when you have HCl! That stuff is overpowering. That being said, be careful w/it when you get it! It's no joke. And have some vinegar on hand to neutralize it in the worst case scenario of a spill. An ounce of prevention......

I hope all turns out well for you!

Please don't sniff your muriatic acid, it can burn your nose badly and cause you to lose your sense of smell very easily.. Most muriatic acid aka hydrochloric acid in water, will fume, as pure HCl is a gas... It is put into a water solution up to 36%, I believe, which is where it gives off a lot of fumes, and about as strong as you can get it.. I am curious as to how much lye you added to the cactus powder as the mescaline could possibly still be in the water/cactus layer if you didn't basify (raise the ph of) it enough..

[Shadowlord]

I Don't advise sniffing your bottle of HCl as a test, I only mentioned that the HCl is so strong that you couldn't if you wanted to. That's how strong the vapors are. That if you could sniff the bottle then it had to have been diluted.

So no, I don't think one should sniff test it, just that if you can it isn't full strength Muriatic Acid.

[Shadowlord]

Originally Posted by AndyLandy420

Vinegar(acetic acid) will not neutralize HCl (hydrochloric acid). Baking soda(NaHCO3) could be used to neutralize HCl as it is basic. Vinegar could be useful in neutralizing lye(NaOH).

good thing you have never had a spill lol

Originally Posted by Shadowlord

You're 100% correct! That's what I was thinking of, Lye, not HCl. I am glad you caught that. Sorry for the Misinformation everyone.

That is why I wish one could edit their posts in threads here.
I knew I had misspoke the minute I hit enter.
I guess you only have a small time frame to edit, because I see my last two posts are editable, but not any of the older ones.

[wikiwahwah]

Hello,

Thanks for the advice, SWIM has now obtained some stronger HCL. It was bought from a hardware store and is called 'Spirits of Salt'. Its not possible to sniff the contents of the container as the fumes are too strong. Hopefully this will do the trick.

SWIM have kept the container with the cacti and the xylene - hopefully the mescaline is still suspended in it.

W

[purpurco]

& what other ingredients exist in that h*** D**** drain cleaner? Purity from the start IMHO, I think is key. AAA- chemicals.......food grade lye for a start.

[purpurco]

OH HELL, I just scrolled back up and noticed the "mortar and brick cleaner" This is NOt muriatic acid! It has muriatic acid in it......... Plus....???

People, don't poison yourselves! You're dealing with dangerous chemicals as is. please be responsible and read the TEK's carefully. More impotantly read the lables of the things you are buying. Take some time ...do some research. actions/ reactions (chemicals).

[EmmisonJ]

Originally Posted by purpurco

OH HELL, I just scrolled back up and noticed the "mortar and brick cleaner" This is NOt muriatic acid! It has muriatic acid in it......... Plus....???

People, don't poison yourselves! You're dealing with dangerous chemicals as is. please be responsible and read the TEK's carefully. More impotantly read the lables of the things you are buying. Take some time ...do some research. actions/ reactions (chemicals).

check the msds on it, i was unable to find it. maybe i'm not in the same country

[purpurco]

I'm sorry ...bain fart on my part.... what is "msds" ?

[purpurco]

Not sure what country you're in but in the U.S., muriatic acid is used as a concrete etcher/ cleaner and to regulate the PH in spas and swimming pools. So larger building / concrete or tile suppliers or perhaps swimming pool supply houses (although M. acid is used less and less for this purpose).

[Lefty]

Material Safety Data Sheet

[purpurco]

OK. Thanks.
Well regardless, I think that conventional wisdom would say that the only thing that you want is LYE (food or technical grade)...no other additives. And muriatic acid....31-40% no other additives.

[purpurco]

is it wrong?

[cheech]

Originally Posted by Shadowlord

Your Hcl is way too dilute is what I am thinking.
If the Hcl you used to add to the water didn't burn your nose sniffing it it is no good.

i was a brick mason for many years and i can say for certain that brick cleaner is not the same as muratic acid. brick cleaner contains many other chems along with the hcl, these chems will vary depending on the brand. the original poster did not follow the tek to the letter as he thinks. muratic acid is a trade name for a solution of hcl, usually around 33%. it's available at lowe's etc.

[cheech]

Originally Posted by wikiwahwah

Hello,

Thanks for the advice, SWIM has now obtained some stronger HCL. It was bought from a hardware store and is called 'Spirits of Salt'. Its not possible to sniff the contents of the container as the fumes are too strong. Hopefully this will do the trick.

SWIM have kept the container with the cacti and the xylene - hopefully the mescaline is still suspended in it.

W

man, look........you need muratic acid. or some regular old hcl from a lab. never heard of spirits of salt. if the contents are listed there should be Nothing but hydrochloric acid and water.

[purpurco]

Yeah, We use muriatic acid for custom stone work that we do. A couple years ago it became almost impossible to find cuz everyone pulled it off the shelves because of the meth heads. We had to use this other shit and I just found an old bottle out in the shop.......Tell me if you REALLY want to use this in your extractions.....10% muriatic acid. 50% phosporic acid. 40% nitric acid. You can readily find the real stuff at concrete suppliers.
And really, same thing goes with your lye. make sure it's 100% lye!!! (AAA- chemicals) did you know that powdered draino contains aluminum!!!

[Hunab Ku]

I'd say that your acid was shite..just go and get exactly the right HCI..get yourself a $20 digital PH meter off e-bay and do it properly. The mesc is prolly still in the solvent...so you are lucky but yeah you should prolly use more catus than you are using too. When you evap your mesc HCI it will turn brown, that way you know its in the final evap...good luck its a slightly tricky extraction the mesc one...oh and a good acetone wash after you have salted will help remove any acid or other impurities...don't leave this step out.

Happy mescing.