Chem free and Taste free Pedro/Torch Concentrate

[jimbojones]

Messing about the most excellent recipe for easy taste free mescaline tar in one day was stumbled upon.

Gear

Dry and Powdered Pedro/Torch Skins ONLY!!!

1) Pectic Enzymes, available at Homebrew stores
2) Citirc Acid, available at Homebrew stores
3) Distilled Water
4) Large Stainless Stock Pot
5) Wire Strainer
6) Spagetti Strainer
7) Well Worn Pillow Case
8) Pyrex Pie Pan

Cellulose Breakdown and Extraction
The cell wall of the cactus is a problem in all extractions, pectic enzmes are naturally occuring fuit enzymes that destroy cellulose that hold the plant cells together like glue and are very strong. They are not broken down even in the acidic environment of the human stomach. Pectic enzymes are most effective at a PH of 4 and in an warm environment not to exceed 40C.

1) Mix a few table spoons or more of pectic enzyme more if you like (the more the better) into a gallon of warm distilled water.

2) Use Enzyme water to hydrate powdered cactus skins (save jug) and let sit for at least 2 hours in glass bowl. If you like you can place it over pot of simmering water to keep it warm.

3) Transfer to stock pot and simmer for 2 hours, strain using pillow case and spagetti strainer, twist until dry as possible.

4) Repeat steps 1-3 four or five times and disguard the spent cactus and saving the water in your distilled water gal jugs. Add enzyme to the tea as soon as it is cools to 40C. When all the extractions are done throw the enzymatic tea into the fridge and call it a night.

Making Tar
The tar is rolled up into pills and taken over a period of about an hour and a half. No taste, no nausea (just a cleansing vomiting at one point that was very cleansing no sick feelings at any point).

1) At a low simmering boil reduce your tea to a pint or less, it takes about 3-4 hours.

2) Place reduced tea into pie pan and put in oven on 200 with the door cracked.

3) As it starts to thicken add sift a few table spoons of flour over it and stir.

4) Mix some corn starch with COLD water and stir it into the heavily reduced tea.

5) Over the next 2 hours stir it occasionally and keep an eye on it until it takes the consistancy of warm taffy. Remove from oven.

6) When cool but still warm scrape up the hash like tar, roll into balls and eat over a period of about 2 hours.

This stuff is perishable but will probably last several days in the fridge. 150g of torch skins sent one to the moon and around, want to do A/B but this is WAYYYY cheaper and less dangerous. If found myself speaking in languages that I do not know, and in Spanish which I do not know well but apparently it's in there somewere. In anycase, I'm sure I've greatly overcomplicated the process and turned everyone off the the idea, but it's great and cheap and pure.

[jimbojones]

Nobody likes my method eh?

Considering how unpleasant cactus juice is and how expensive and time consuming A/B extractions are (especially for preparing 1 or 2 doses), I would have thought people would be a little more psyched about a pain/taste/nausea/chemical free method of preping it. Plus you get the full alkaloid experience you would with tea. I ate a huge breakfast 2 hours before eating the mesc tar and had a wonderful experience, fully transcendental, no nausea.

It's great, that much I can assure you.

OH, I forgot, acidify the enzyme water with some citric acid (Ideal PH for enzymes to operate is 4)
And I also forgot to list a few Tbsp. Cornstarch and Flour as part of the Grear you will need.

[mydarling]

i appreciate your experimentation and input to the site. however i have no experience w/ cactus one way or the other, so i didn't say anything. i'm sure it's great !!

[ez_goin]

Thanks for the tek. I'm in the midst of growing my own little cacti, but they were just started from seed about a month and a half ago. Still got quite a while before I am able to do any experimentation. I will keep this method in mind though. Thanks for posting.

[jimbojones]

Thanks guys.





"I know I come off Hard ass fuck, but every mofo needs a boost in confidence some times."

J-Roc

[Caljet666]

I had never heard of the pectic enzymes so thankyou for posting this. Seems I got something new to look into.


Cheers

[jimbojones]

It's cheap, and easy.


I could not find anything about using them for cactus extracts so I did an experiment. The PE makes the liquid extraction much less snotty and pleasant to work with. The well reduced product was not at all snotty or slimy.

They use PE for extracting fruit juice from pulpy fuit, so I figured they would help one break the tough cell walls of the cactus skin. Cellulose is not broken down by the human digestive system, and stands up well to other punishments, so PE seemed just the thing for it.

Might as well get the most from those pricey skins!

[Howard Esteban]

i will definitely suggest this to a foaf. they tried the same thing, but with out the acid or pectic enzymes.
Slimy, snot tar was the end product. It was mixed with flour and consumed in gel capsules.
How much material was left to be consumed after this process?

[oogabooga]

you tek seems unclear and i am not sure if i understand. so you soak cactus skins in enzyme water and then boil the cactus in enzyme water or distilled water? and you change the water multiple times before you discard your cactus skins and reduce it? where does the citric acid listed in your ingredients come in? how much water in total? how much cactus? i like the idea of using enzymes but it needs more detail to replicate.

are these enzymes safe to eat or deactivated afterwards in the quantities used for this extraction? are they active only on cellulose and not on human mucus membranes such as our stomachs and intestines?

[Oblivion]

Any new tek is worth examining. Off to tek file you go! Thanks for the input.

[ggpr]

Yea, great work putting out your own tek, The only reason i didn't comment is because i have no experience with mescaline extractions. I was secretly hoping this thread would attract alot of discussion so i could read further into it! Anyways thanks again

[Howard Esteban]

swim got some PE, and will try this in about one week

[jimbojones]

The enzyme is destroyed when you boil it.

So, hydrate it and soak it for and few hours (use acidified warm distiled water).

Boil it, drain, save water and allow both cactus and water to cool, add enzyme to liquid and repeat with the cacuts 4-5 times. Combine liquid, disgcard cactus and reduce before adding constarch to cold water and adding that to make hash like tar. 150g makes a nice log about the size of a 9g bud. Roll it up into balls and eat it, there is no taste but it took about 2 hours to comfrotably eat it all with a couple of glasses of water.

[nugget]

i saved this page , seems interesting .. I worry about the iso extraction.
the only thing is .. 150 grams ? isnt that alot.
from what information I could come up with for the green flesh powder is it would most likely have around a 1 percent mescaline to weight ratio so by my guess and i do say guess was that 90 grams of powder would be around 900 mg of mescaline , a hair below the safe dose.
which yea really sent me to the moon.
were your skins fresh ?

[jimbojones]

The skins were dry, from what I have seen people get around .6% alkaloid .8 at best.

I am unaware that there is any information to suggest that it is unsafe to consume levels of mescaline over a gram. If you can handle good strong LSD you should be fine, mescaline is comparitavley gentle IMO.

There was about an 8th of the tar I did not eat of the 150g I prepped. I prefer tripping alone as it lets me get way out there without anything to break it, and definately got way out there this time.

Complete transcendental experience.
I would consider it one of the best of many hundred psychadelic experiences. Mescaline is KING of the Psycadelics in my book hands down.
Gentle and All Consuming yet not Overwhelming.

[cuts]

Are you talking about san pedro having between .6 to .8% mescaline? Peruvian torch can have much more. I have taken 100g of dried p. torch skins and did an iso extraction and i tripped nicely. When you extract the cacti in any way it always causes a loss in potency.

[jimbojones]

100g .6%= 600mg about what you would expect to get a decent trip. It seems you are confirming my #s rather than disproving them. Sure I would like the skins to be 2%, and somewhere that may be the case but your average online vendor is going to have considerably less than 1% alkaloid. I don't think there is any tek that has had a yeild over .8%.

And why do you say some alkaloid is destroyed? If one were to do something destructive it would likely destroy the entire batch not .2 of 1%. If any is lost it's in the discarded cactus chunder and negligable.
Maybe I'm wrong though.

And I did not trip nicely I cheesed my fucking balls off. It was great though.

[Howard Esteban]

different extractions leave behind some alkaloids that contribute to the experience in one way or another.

[nugget]

um yea i used peruvian torch not san pedro.
The reason I ask is because I read a report that lab rats died so it might be best not to go over one gram but on the other hand I have never heard of anyone overdosing on mescaline.
and i could only estimate the actual percentage as I extracted tar and not a pure product.
Its just a worry in the back of my mind. I dont want to be like the lab rat that didnt make it

[cuts]

Originally Posted by jimbojones

And why do you say some alkaloid is destroyed?

Where did i say any alkaloids were destroyed? I just said there will be a loss of potency because most extractions do not extract the full amount of mescaline.

[datsun]

has anyone tried jimbojones's tek here? looks really interesting.

[bear]

Very interesting, the first use of pectic enzymes that I've seen for this purpose.
Does this need pics to be
Archive Material ?

[EmmisonJ]

Originally Posted by Caljet666

I had never heard of the pectic enzymes so thankyou for posting this. Seems I got something new to look into.


Cheers

yes that was some incredible research on your part JJ, really novel approach. swim's days of teas, tar, etc are over but perhaps those pectic enzymes could be used as a defat prior to an a/b as opposed to using heaps of NaOH.

[KungFoo C]

Why should this be used on dried skins only? If this is done to the whole cacti cutting does it just make a mess or something thats too thick to work with? too hard to strain? If so, does anyone think a modified tea extraction procedure would work and before reducing adding pectic acid to reduce slime, and from there merge over to the ending of this tek (or something similar) to make a tar instead of the goop which you end with if you reduce the regular tea tek too far? Any input would be great.
Summary
Follow Tea Tek... After you filter the cactus from final extraction phase, and before you reduce, Acidify (if need be) and add a few table spoons of Pectic Enzymes. Let sit at warm temperature for 2ish hrs. Then procede to reduce down (which would kill of the P enzymes) and follow the ending of this tek which should result in a similar tar/concentrate.

[golly]

Need more info on the role of pectin in traditional and well researched usage..
Interesting idea Jimbo and worthy of consideration imo..

[jimbojones]

Pectic Enzyme is very cheap, around $5 for more than enough, so don't skimp. I added the enzyme to some acidic water and hydrated the ground cactus, let it sit for a few hours keeping it lightly warm for the best effect (enzymes are destroyed at 40c but work best in warm slightly acidic conditions). Then make tea and strain, when the liquid is cool enough add a few tablespoons of enzyme to it and rehydrate your chunder with some more acidic enzyme water. Wait an hour or two and repeat the tea making process. I only boiled the tea for about 45 minutes each time for a total of 4 times with new acidic enzyme water each time, then reduced the liquid. It did not turn snotty at all accept for a skin that formed on the top as I boiled it down. It did not thicken much until the addition of Corn Starch and a bit of flour during the final stages of reduction, which took place in a pie dish in the oven.

There is no research on using pectic enzymes to get alkaloids out of plants, the closest I could get was extracting fruit juice out of pulpy fruits but the principal is the same. Next time I do it I will take some pics and make notes as I go so that I can post the tek more coherently and easy to follow.

I would likely go A/B extract if I was doing a Lb. of cactus or more, but for the regular person looking to experience mescaline cheaper (it is still somewhat time consuming) this is the way to go.

[PINKBUFFLVR]

wow nice.....BUMP

[whatchamacallit]

SWIM gets 1% from the dried chips he purchases, but he definitely likes upwards of a gram for a dose, and it's definitely beyond safe. Only death he's ever heard of from ingesting mescaline, was one 9 gram IV dose, so he thinks you got plenty of leeway between a gram eaten and 9 grams IV. SWIM has posted his tek somewhere on the site, if you wanna do a search. He got about 10-11 grams of mescaline from one kilo, all white and cleaned with acetone, even.

[Shamsu]

Cool... dont mind sucking down some nasty cactus juice or concentrait(its all part of the experience) but i am going to try it ASAP I will give report

[Fly on the Wall]

This seems like a lot of work for impure product. Instead of a gram of 'tar', this criminally insane walrus I met at the zoo claims to enjoy 200-300mg of pure crystals. Thing is, he doesn't like to use harsh chemicals or solvents.

Luckily, there's a food-safe non-toxic method available. http://wiki.dmt-nexus.com/69ron%27s_...ine_Extraction

He says he tried it in South America, and definitely didn't advocate breaking any American laws.

[mr. pink]

Well that was a convincing link. Why the hell would any one use solvents and HCL? Thats what I want to know.

[usagolden]

Anyone ever use the d-limonene tek?

[Fly on the Wall]

Originally Posted by usagolden

Anyone ever use the d-limonene tek?

That wiki page refers to http://www.dmt-nexus.com/forum/defau...g=posts&t=4002

Appears to be a relatively new thing, so maybe it will catch on here.

edit: I don't mean to hijack Jimbo's thread. If it would be better to make a separate limonene thread then I'll do so, or someone else can feel free since I don't know anything about it except what the walrus read to me.

[whatchamacallit]

Originally Posted by mr. pink

Well that was a convincing link. Why the hell would any one use solvents and HCL? Thats what I want to know.

To get pure crystals, good for dosing, and least nausea of any method SWIM has tried..

[Fly on the Wall]

Originally Posted by whatchamacallit

To get pure crystals, good for dosing, and least nausea of any method SWIM has tried..

The walrus told me that since HCL is a stronger acid, the acetate crystals can be dissolved in HCL and will recrystallize into HCL crystals which can be washed with acetone. Although he said it wasn't really necessary.

[jimbojones]

Originally Posted by Fly on the Wall

This seems like a lot of work for impure product. Instead of a gram of 'tar', this criminally insane walrus I met at the zoo claims to enjoy 200-300mg of pure crystals. Thing is, he doesn't like to use harsh chemicals or solvents.

Luckily, there's a food-safe non-toxic method available. http://wiki.dmt-nexus.com/69ron%27s_...ine_Extraction

He says he tried it in South America, and definitely didn't advocate breaking any American laws.

It may be an impure product in that it is not pure mescaline but the cactus contains all kinds of nice alkaloids a washing them out with lye and solvent is not exactly staying true to the shamanistic nature of the mescaline trip.

[jimbojones]

Originally Posted by whatchamacallit

To get pure crystals, good for dosing, and least nausea of any method SWIM has tried..

The HCL is gaseous at room temp and I would think better for salting unless you can titrate correctly and use sulphuric. This other limolium method seems to use the same chemisty with cheap substitutes for strong acids. Your already dumping sodum hydroxide in it, what's the big deal with HCL to salt? Is Limolium (which I mix with acetone and used to strip mororcyle parts) somehow supposed to be safer than HCL used properly?

[whatchamacallit]

Originally Posted by jimbojones

It may be an impure product in that it is not pure mescaline but the cactus contains all kinds of nice alkaloids a washing them out with lye and solvent is not exactly staying true to the shamanistic nature of the mescaline trip.

SWIM has never had a very powerful experience with tea or cacti, due to the fact he can't get enough down and keep it down long enough to experience a full experience. By extracting, he can dose high enough without puking.. He is still gonna give Irishlion's tea tek a try with some bridgesii, but all the pedro and torch he's tried to get down, just won't get in and stay in long enough..

[Fly on the Wall]

Originally Posted by jimbojones

The HCL is gaseous at room temp and I would think better for salting unless you can titrate correctly and use sulphuric. This other limolium method seems to use the same chemisty with cheap substitutes for strong acids. Your already dumping sodum hydroxide in it, what's the big deal with HCL to salt? Is Limolium (which I mix with acetone and used to strip mororcyle parts) somehow supposed to be safer than HCL used properly?

It's d-limonene, not linoleum. This is basically distilled orange oil. That's the non-polar solvent, food lime is used instead of lye, and vinegar is the acidic polar solvent, which means the entire extraction can be done with food-safe chemicals instead of lye and xylene.

[ou3308]

I wish i would read this sooner cause i threw awaw quite a few skins the other day. This extraction sounds good and I will use it on my next skins. Thank you for the expeirmentation.

[jimbojones]

Originally Posted by Fly on the Wall

It's d-limonene, not linoleum. This is basically distilled orange oil. That's the non-polar solvent, food lime is used instead of lye, and vinegar is the acidic polar solvent, which means the entire extraction can be done with food-safe chemicals instead of lye and xylene.

I never said anything about linolium, I mispelled limolene limolium, I'm not an idiot just a bad speller.

And the chem free tek this started as ends up a thick tar which can be rolled into pills and eaten with no taste or nausea.

[Landogarner]

Does anyone try smoking herb to help with the nausea?

[Jose_sixpac]

The first time I read your recipe Jimbo, I couldn't follow your tek...
now after helping my lil brain along with your reply's since, and in re reading your process a second and then third time it makes good sense and seems like an easy follow, for a reward far exceeding the recipe process of extraction.

and it jogged a memory.
It reminded me of my friends uncle when we were kids who used to make cactus tea using mexi-pectin.

I know it was cactus cause I looked in the pot he was using, it was cactus but not the kind you would see in the store, and it wasn;t served for dinner that night.

but they sure had a party a few nights later...they all sang in mexican (sonoran) all singing different words all at the same time.


Ithought they were drunk.

I like Irish's tea also, and have no problem 2-3 grams over a short time, or with the nausia or cleansing purge, have you considered just making a tea once you are at the flour / corn starch point of the recipe?
That was what I was thinking about doing, or does the flour /cornstarch do something besides thicken the extract?


Will def give it a try the next time I sweat.


Thanx Jimbo.

Energize...

-j-

[jimbojones]

The human digestive system cannot digest pectin, the sticky stuff holding the cells together that contribute largley to the snot factor. If you take papin (a pectic enzyme that will help you digest it) it may help with the nausea. I don't really like to smoke anything on mesc, it feels like I'm poluting my body, and I'm a big herb fan. Just the pure joy of mesc when the time is right. I have batch brewing, I soaked it in acidic solution of PE for a few days an it bubbled up like ectoplasm, releasing air and all kinds of reactions. I boiled it to kill any budding spores and am letting it sit with more PE and acid for a couple more days before basically making three batches of tea with the sludge and cooking it into tar using a dash of corn starch and a baking pan in a 200 degree oven with the door cracked. I honestly believe he enzyme aides the release of a lot more mescaline locked in the goo. I'll let you know if the letting the tea sit for days affects the potency as well as how much it decreases the snot.

Thanks for paying attention, give it a whirl, it's quite rewarding and very witchdoctorial.

The cornstarch just thickens it into like a taffy while warm and you can roll it into hashlike balls and eat it over a couple of hours with a glass of water. Just like popping pills, easier than the drug test passing kind which make me vomit. I have a very weak stomach, a sip of tea and I would hurl, the tar is tasteless and easy to administer orally.
Tastless tar ball pills over big glass of the most awful chunder you've ever gulped. And yes I did have a cleansing purge but it was very pleasant and resulted in a black ball of tar, no mess. Felt like a million $ after, and the next day, plus before I ate it I had a huge dinner of eggs and toast, so I did not fast or anything.