A/B MHRB extraction: milk jugs?

[TheAppleCore]

Hey Mycotopia!

I've been diligently researching the art of acid/base DMT extraction from Mimosa Hostilis root-bark, and have compiled most of the information I need - there has been one question that so far my research hasn't answered for me, though, which is why I am here.

It was recommended to avoid using glass to contain highly basic solutions, and to use HDPE jugs instead. However, does HDPE mind naphtha at all? Could one carry out the entire extraction in HDPE, or would that result in a gooey mess?

If HDPE is in fact appropriate in this situation - if one were to use a milk jug, would the cap pose an issue? I noticed that the caps of milk jugs tended to be made of LDPE (low density polyethylene) as opposed to HDPE. Tilting the liquid back and forth in the jug, I wouldn't want the naphtha to dissolve the cap.

Peace & love!!!

[LotRev]

I'm not totally sure about the A/B extraction, but I can say for certainty
that the STB tek can be used with either the glass or the HDPE with no problems.

[lysergic]

Make sure it's pyrex if you're planning to STB with glass.
Lye etches glass, and can cause it to shatter.
Personally, I would stick with HDPE containers- like gallon water jugs.

[LotRev]

I won't deny that, and wouldn't want anyone to get hurt, but swim told
me that mason jars last just fine in the STB.

*perhaps a last resort

[TheAppleCore]

Thanks for the replies.

Isn't A/B the same as STB? I'm referring to Marsofold's tek - and in that tek, you convert the DMT from salt to base. But you also use acid to extract it from the rootbark, then you basify the solution...

[TheAppleCore]

Ah, OK - didn't realize STB stood for Straight To Base, I erroneously assumed it was Salt To Base. Sorry...

Can anyone confirm that the milk jug caps are OK with the lye/naphtha?

[Shadowlord]

My biggest worry w/ a milk jug is the thinness of the material.
I use HDPE so as to avoid Lye etching but I use those gallon jugs that window washing fluid comes in. They are HDPE and are a bit thicker and more robust and were designed to handle a solvent.
I get them at work but many gas stations have them in their trash/recycling.
I have used them several times in Mesc ext. ( Lye and Xylene ) and have had no problems as of yet.

Good luck w/ your extraction!

[adorethespores]

a foaf has been using mason jars just fine.... as for hdpe im not an expert but i thought iit should be ldpe.. like i said im not real sure just do your homework.. cause like you said milk jugs seem real thin.......
good luck!!!!!!!!

[witchdr11]

The thinness of the milk jugs will not matter, the chems involved will not react with it at all really.

[Shadowlord]

Originally Posted by witchdr11

The thinness of the milk jugs will not matter, the chems involved will not react with it at all really.

I'm sure your right Witch. It's just the thought of accidental puncture that worries me. The jugs are safe from a chemical standpoint. They just seem flimsy is all. You will find those that are glass purists here as well but it's all a matter of preference I guess.

Just make sure they are HDPE w/ the 2 in the triangle and that the cap seals well so that you can agitate the mixture(s).
And don't forget the gloves and goggles!

Best of luck on your extraction.

[M&M420]

Yeah I got a water jug full right now.I was a little hesitant at first because how flimsy they look but it's holding up fine.I did basify my water in a Pyrex container and let it cool before placing in the jug though.My stir rod broke so I was forced to improvise by busting a quart jar and using a large shard stir with that.Now a day later and the glass is very noticeably etched.Almost looks as if there were crystal on it but it's just etching.That was it only being exposed for a short amount of time.Last time I used glass as a vessel for the extraction and it looked nothing like this shard does.But yeah jugs work fine.Let us now how it goes for ya

[LotRev]

Did you know that grocery bags are HDPE 2?

I would like to see someone use a grocery bag for an extract.

be careful though!

Maybe line a jar with the bag, so it's easy to tie up and dispose of later.

[TheAppleCore]

Thanks for the responses, guys!! I did some testing, and I can confirm that, yes, the HDPE milk jugs and their LDPE caps can handle lye & naphtha.


Another quick question: how long must one leave a naphtha/alkaloid solution in the freezer for the alkaloid crystals to fully precipitate? The maximum amount of time I'd be able to leave naphtha in my freezer would be maybe 4-5 hours.

[duaut]

Originally Posted by TheAppleCore

how long must one leave a naphtha/alkaloid solution in the freezer for the alkaloid crystals to fully precipitate? The maximum amount of time I'd be able to leave naphtha in my freezer would be maybe 4-5 hours.

That's fine, just make sure that you evap the naphtha down to 1/3rd the original volume and most of the DMT will precipitate out. Bad thing is the freezer will take on the scent of the naphtha. SO if you are worried someone will find out what you are doing, the smell could cause you problems. One other thing you can do a 4-5hr freeze, and then pour off your naphtha from your DMT crystals after your first freeze, then evap that down to half it's original volume and re freeze another day to collect the rest ogf the DMT that may possibly be still contained in the solution.

[Nunyabiz]

Not long enough.. 1-3 days.. 3 days is recommended to get it all..

[duaut]

Originally Posted by Nunyabiz

Not long enough.. 1-3 days.. 3 days is recommended to get it all..

not even, thats way to excessive, overnight is all that is needed.

[Nunyabiz]

Hmm.. did not know that.. Daut is the pro on this subject.. My bad..

[TheAppleCore]

I decided to do a test extraction on some alkaloid-containing vegetable matter (not MHRB), following the usual A/B technique, and the results are as follows:

I did two naphtha pulls, and combined them in a baking dish. I then used a small fan to evaporate the naphtha down until it was super-saturated in alkaloid, and tiny alkaloid crystals were starting to form on the baking dish itself. I quickly turned the fan off at this point, and used a pipette to suck the naphtha from the dish into a jar.

I stuck it in the freezer for roughly 2 hours. I then took it out, shook it up so as to loosen any crystal formation, and poured the suspension into a coffee filter over a jar. What resulted after the filter dried was a fairly large quantity (considering the small amount of vegetable matter used) of coarse, clear, sparkling crystals. They were gorgeous, really, like a little pile of diamonds - I couldn't imagine why anyone would feel the need to wash their alkaloid yields using this tek with ammonia.

The next day I stuck the naphtha that fell through the filter back in the freezer for another 4 1/2 hours, to see if any more alkaloid would precipitate through. A fair amount did crystallize, but it was noticeably less clean than the previous day's precipitation. The crystals that were loosened by my shaking the jar were a lot finer, less "sparkly", and coagulated a little more easily. The crystals that formed on the sides of the jar were even worse - I tried scraping some off with my fingernail, only to find that they smeared into a yellow goop on the side of the jar.


So, in conclusion, it would appear that freezing a small, super alkaloid-saturated quantity of naphtha for a short period of time is a way to get extremely pure crystals without an ammonia wash, but a slightly lower yield. Freezing for longer periods of time seems to precipitate a lot of oily impurities.

could just make a water bath with ice and salt
not only will it get almost as cold as the freezer
but it will also bring the entire jug down to that temp MUCH MUCH quicker
why we even use a freezer is beyond me
just makes everything in there smell like paint thinner

[LotRev]

What if the salt grabs onto the dmt?

Ohh I see, on the outside?

Freezer works fine for me, and it doesn't stink once it's out of there.

[Coughing_Anon]

If you're worried about LDPE caps on HDPE jugs, just put an HDPE bag over the top of the jug before you put the cap on.
These are common grocery bags.

[cheech]

Originally Posted by Nunyabiz

Not long enough.. 1-3 days.. 3 days is recommended to get it all..

depends on the freezer. mine will chill 100ml nap to 0 F in a few hours. all that will fall out does.

[M&M420]

Hey do any of you get smoke from the water when you mix and stir the lye.I was using pellets before and never noticed this but have got powder now and am seeing it.I don't know what it is cause it kind of takes my breath away so now I'm using mask to finish mixing my solution.I wanted to know if this is normal though before I add my bark.The bottle says 100%

[LotRev]

Ehh, is it just powder flying up from the pour?

Yeah, definitely don't breathe that shit in.
And short answer: No, there should not be any smoke of fumes coming
out of the mix.

[M&M420]

no it doesn't start to smoke untill I start stirring.I'm stirring inside a pyrex cup with a glass stir rod so I know there isn't any reaction there.Once I start stirring it clouds up and puts of this small amount of smoke and then clears back out.It's ROEBIC lye.When I used the pellets it didn't cloud up or anything like this

[LotRev]

No problem with Roebic.

I'm not sure then, I've never noticed much rise of smoke.
Just be careful, no matter what it is: Lye, Naphtha, or MHRB...you don't want
to breathe it in!

[M&M420]

Alright thanks.It wasn't much so it was probably nothing.Just needed a little reassurance

might just be water vapors from the exothermic reaction between the acidic water and the lye
probably hurts when you breath it from the ph of the vapors

[TheAppleCore]

^ Yeah, I'm pretty positive it's just steam from the water being heated by the NaOH. I don't think that the vapor would necessarily have a basic pH - the NaOH isn't vaporized AFAIK, only the H2O is.

[duaut]

Originally Posted by lost_onabbey_rd

might just be water vapors from the exothermic reaction between the acidic water and the lye
probably hurts when you breath it from the ph of the vapors

It's endothermic, not exothermic.
I see that vapor all the time, no worries, it is not product loss.

endothermic means it absorbs heat, which would make the container cold

reactions between strong acids and bases is exothermic (gives off heat)
which is why the solution gets warmer after adding a big spoon full of lye

[M&M420]

Yeah must have just been the heat from the reaction.Spice came out clean and tasting good(well as good as it's going to get).Changed those to fumarate salt and will soon to be getting THH.Looking into having my first pharmahuasca experience soon.Been putting it off for some time now but I think I'm ready and being able to swallow a pill rather than a big cup full of organic sludge is little more appealing to me.