Natural Spice

[Phlux-]

This is just swims experience for this tek - i can take no credit for any of this, its just a pictoral based on an allready existing tek by 69Ron on the nexus.
Here is what swim did - btw swim is still on pull 5 - pull 4 yeilded about 220mg of acetate so lots more in there still.
Swim started with 100g MHRB

Chopped it up with scissors

ground it up

added 100g calcium hydroxide - perhaps overkill but im sure its fine

added just enough water to moist it but not make it watery then let it sit for about 10 mins
added about 300ml d-limonene and put it all in a big consol jar - shook it up like mad and let it sit a few times
then filtered it by squeezing it thru a piece of cotton cloth

swim noticed that there was some water in the first squeeze - it was separated from the dlimonene and put aside - swim thinks this tek works better when drier.
about 25ml of vinegar was then added to the d-limonene and shaken like crazy
the vinegar and d-limonene were separated and this process was repeated 2 times - all the vinegar added together and evaporated to yeild a mixed mimosa alkaloid acetate goo

the d-limonene was then put back on the bark and lime mix and pull 2 done while swim continued to convert the acetates to freebase form - to do this swim mixed the goo with 2 parts sodium carbonate and enough water to make it moist

this was then dried to a powder, ground and 3 d-limonene pulls were done on it

the d-limonene was evaporated to yeild

freebase lemon spice - the taste is not bad and the fx are very different to normal spice - its smoother and not as shocking and feels more complete - you can feel the jungle alot. to dose swim decided weighing it was just going to be messy and a good eyeballing was needed so swim put some on a pin and tried 1 drop from a pin - very active - very nice.
swim thinks there is still d-limonene in the spice and wants it to evap for longer before he tries smoking any more - swim is also hoping that it will xtalize somewhat over time.
The total yeild will be calculated after the bark has finished yielding - but second pull was just as big if not bigger than pull 1 and pull 1 was quite reasonable anyway - swim thinks this tek will yeild well over 1.2%
second pull was added to the first then d-limonene was used to see if any kind of separation occured between jungle and spice third pull is in the same picture - see the swims citrus spice color swatches thread at the nexus.
pull 4 has been added and all mixed up - pull 5 is on its way and the vinegar came off the d-limonene yellow orange so it looks like it still has a lot in there.
after pull 3 swim changed to using this

It is far easier and superior mixing it by hand. The bark and lime is packed in there so hard one would imagine no d-limonene could penetrate it but it pours through in minutes.
sorry for excessive pics

[5-hydroxytryptamine]

wow!! super-rad!!!

what's this about a division between jungle and spice??

and am i seeing a spice extraction using non pbp solvent products?

What would be a standard dose?

this whole spice thing is news to me, im just trying to wrap my head around it.

thanks for posting!! I was wondering on this matter earlier.....

[5-hydroxytryptamine]

...because i have to meet these 'self transforming machine elves'!!!

[Phlux-]

dosage seems to be the same as with spice - the experience is way different somehow - fuller and more wholesome, frendlier and more relaxed, slower and more peacefull.
30mg seems like more than enough.

[5-hydroxytryptamine]

wow. sweet. 30 mg? so a g would be roughly 30 doses?
also, did it solidify in the end? thanks ten millyons!!

[whatchamacallit]

SWIM would say a g is about 20 breakthrough doses, roughly.

[5-hydroxytryptamine]

word, thanks.

[Phlux-]

i dig ur avatar 5-htp

[Shadowlord]

Thanks for posting this tek Phlux!
SWIM is getting a fresh pile of bark and was thinking about trying a limonene extract as I had only recently heard of it and there should be enough bark to do some experimenting.
Nice Timing.

[5-hydroxytryptamine]

word, thanks phlux!!

is there a way to visually estimate the quality of mhrb when purchasing?

also, is the final thingy an oil or resin-like material? how then should it be ideally 'handled'??

[reut]

Originally Posted by Phlux-

30mg seems like more than enough.

How did you weigh it?

Thanks for the pictorial.
Include a final yield when you've finished pulling

[Phlux-]

if one wants xtals this is not the tek to go with - a naptha wash on the goo could be done and then freeze precip done to get nice xtals but the point of this tek is to stay natural and to get a total full spectrum extract - the experience is very different to normal spice.
swim is working on another tek atm that may work out better - its in progress so results will be posted soon.
to weigh it - a piece of wax paper was placed on the scale and calabrated to 0 then spice was dripped on bit by bit until the desired amount was reached then scraped off easily with a blade.
for storage swim has a bottle - will post pix soon.

[reut]

Originally Posted by Phlux-

to weigh it - a piece of wax paper was placed on the scale and calabrated to 0 then spice was dripped on bit by bit until the desired amount was reached then scraped off easily with a blade.
for storage swim has a bottle - will post pix soon.

Nice, looking forward to a final yield report too.

Originally Posted by Phlux-

if one wants xtals this is not the tek to go with - a naptha wash on the goo could be done and then freeze precip done to get nice xtals but the point of this tek is to stay natural and to get a total full spectrum extract - the experience is very different to normal spice.
swim is working on another tek atm that may work out better - its in progress so results will be posted soon.

Don't forget that limonene is hydrogen and carbon too.
Using xylene to get full spectrum gives an experience different to normal spice too.
Xylene is just as natural as limonene.

Is the solubility of DMT higher in limonene than heptane/naphtha/xylene?
That's the only reason my friend would choose to use limonene over other chemicals.

[5-hydroxytryptamine]

[QUOTE=Phlux-;710643]but the point of this tek is to stay natural and to get a total full spectrum extract - the experience is very different to normal spice.


THis is just what i was pondering the other day. I want to experience dmt but am very wary/paranoid of chemical extractions, (nor do i need an 18 hr aya thingy)

One thing more about spice in general, but natural spice specifically... does it live up to the hype???

I mean, really, other dimensions and mantid-eyed self transforming machine elves????
because if so.....wow!

[Shadowlord]

There is nothing that compares to DMT.
And this isn't in a quantifying way either. It is just a completely different animal.
I've done a lot of different substances. LSD, Mesc, Shrooms, and none of them really compare to DMT in feel or experience. I've never seen CEV's so vividly and so completely and once you breakthrough there is no feeling of your body at all. I've still only done DMT a few times and there is a lot more for me to learn but DMT is for real 5HT!

I am very interested in finding out how this full spectrum extract is compared to refined DMT. Yellow spice seems harsher/harder on me than whiter, but as mentioned, I haven't had all that much exp yet. I can still count my DMT experiences on two hands

There is no real way to explain it though. You'll just have to give it a whirl 5HT. Lots of info here to get you started though.

[reut]

Originally Posted by 5-hydroxytryptamine

THis is just what i was pondering the other day. I want to experience dmt but am very wary/paranoid of chemical extractions, (nor do i need an 18 hr aya thingy)

If you are paranoid about chemical extractions then this (and other) teks are not for you.
This tek uses a few chemicals including limonene.

Originally Posted by 5-hydroxytryptamine

One thing more about spice in general, but natural spice specifically... does it live up to the hype???

I mean, really, other dimensions and mantid-eyed self transforming machine elves????

Nope. It was all made up. All of it.

:P

[5-hydroxytryptamine]

hmmm Thanks!

I thought limonene was lemon-based and the other ones in this tek are more natural sounding than xylene and such...

I simply want to avoid volatile sovents, It seems that was the point of this thread's creation..

I have long pondered the holy grail, and now that it is within reach (thanks to all you genius psychonauts) My pet tortoise wants to make best/safest go of it when he is ready to try his hand at chemistry!!!

[5-hydroxytryptamine]

When you say xylene is as natural as limonene what do you mean??

Could I be quickly schooled in molecular chemistry??

I dont mean to be ignorant, im just wondering..

thanks

[Saint Stephen]

About the solvents, xylene and limonene are very similar. If one was to use xylene, they're most likely working with hardware store "xylol", which is a mixture of the ortho, meta, and para isomers. All that this means is that the two methyl groups are in one of three possible positions. The positions slightly alter the properties of each, but not significantly. If it's being used for DMT extractions, the positions don't matter much.

Limonene most closely resembles para-xylene structurally, but it is different in a sense that limonene is not aromatic. I've never used the techniques involving limonene, so I can't really say if one is better than another. I seem to remember reading something about limonene being used because it's relatively safe, but don't quote me on that.

Recently, I've been thinking about possible mixtures of non-polar solvents used in different ratios to extract. It seems to make sense that there would be a certain combination which would be most efficient. I think that a good starting point would be with some kind of hydrocarbon chain mixed with an aromatic hydrocarbon. Maybe hexane and xylene? Naptha and xylol?

I'll report my findings if any combinations pull better than the others.

If your turtle hasn't done this before, SWIM would suggest going with a "STB Tek". It's not the cleanest, but it'll give some very active and very usable product.

[5-hydroxytryptamine]

thanks saint stephen

What do we mean when we say "clean" exactly? does that mean a) solvents leaving unwanted traces of themselves, or b) just particulate from the plant matter?? or both?? does b) mean greater 'toxicity'/ difficulty metabolising? hence more possible nausea (that a refined molecule would not cause??)
or a) possible mutagens associated with impure solvent?

I hope my question made sense, and you dont mind replying because i'm a curious rabbit.

and the turtle just likes to be a walking encyclopedia..that crazy guy!!!

[Shadowlord]

Regardless of Solvent, you want to make sure that your end product has been completely dried so as to make sure it has all evaporated off.
Some people like Limonene because they feel it is a less toxic solvent to evaporate. There may be other reasons but DMT extracted w/ Naptha or xylene or toluene or what have you is still DMT as long as there isn't any unevaporated solvent still in the product.
Now different solvents pull more of the other plant alkaloids out in the bark other than just the DMT.
They aren't toxic, they just give a different feel to the trip and some like those other plant alks and others prefer really pure DMT and some like them both.
Hope this helps.

[5-hydroxytryptamine]

ok,thanks shadow!

[Phlux-]

okay perhaps natural is not the best word
xylene stinks and is a petrochem - badly - they call it an aromatic solvent (it smells nothing like aromat btw) but its smell is like turps 20x
dlimonene is like orange oil - an orange contains 6% dlimonene by weight, when friends walk into swims place they almost always say - hrmm, what smells so nice. It really smells delicious.

so if one were to say - take a sip of dlimonene it would be fine - no ill fx yet if one were to say take a sip of xylene it would be a different story

calcium hydroxide is used as the base and is edible - compared to lye which can burn you badly and blind u.

vinegar is used as the acid - no expanation neccicary
sodium carbonate(baked bicarb) is used as the freebasing base - swim senses no danger there.

these are the reasons swim chose this tek - the extract is very potent yet peacefull and very enjoyable - swim enjoys it far more than anything xylene has brought him.

with this spice its not like a feeling of spice + jungle, the jungle edits the spice experience alot (by jungle im referring to anything that is not spice in my extraction)

anyone know if that kokasaguine or whatever is extracted when dlimo is used ?

oh and btw the other tek swim is testing is working better than any tek before - will be posted soon.

[reut]

Originally Posted by Phlux-

so if one were to say - take a sip of dlimonene it would be fine - no ill fx

That isn't true at all.
Unless you class vomiting, nausea, stomach pain, gastrointestinal irritation and sore throat as "no ill fx".

So from what I gather you prefer this tek because limonene smells nicer, which is a perfectly legitimate reason, I see nothing wrong with that.

Originally Posted by Phlux-

oh and btw the other tek swim is testing is working better than any tek before - will be posted soon.

Looking forward to it

[5-hydroxytryptamine]

thanks, thats what i was wondering, the petrochemical thing. thanks for the education!

[wendal]

I guess compared to sipping xylene, there would no comparable effects

j/k

don't drink either.

Originally Posted by reut

That isn't true at all.
Unless you class vomiting, nausea, stomach pain, gastrointestinal irritation and sore throat as "no ill fx".

So from what I gather you prefer this tek because limonene smells nicer, which is a perfectly legitimate reason, I see nothing wrong with that.


Looking forward to it

[spacecake]

Nice pictorial Phlux !

>> archive material <<

[whatchamacallit]

Did the goo ever dry out or crystallize at all? SWIM wonders if there isn't just a bunch of orange oil in the goo.

[reut]

Originally Posted by whatchamacallit

Did the goo ever dry out or crystallize at all? SWIM wonders if there isn't just a bunch of orange oil in the goo.

It doesn't dry out, and yeah there is.

Also, despite the smell being nice, in the same way you wouldn't sniff/inhale xylene, don't breathe in d-limonene too much.
It seems like you've let the nice smell of d-limonene create the illusion that it's safe.

[Oblivion]

I actually enjoy the flavor of yellow spice. I mean if it wouldnt make me trip so hard, I could have a beer on my porch and a nice pipe of yellow spice to close out the day.

[Phlux-]

you do realize that ppl all around the world are taking d-limonene as a suppliment - i think the doses are up to 100mg but iv seen ppl eating much more that that daily to prevent breast cancer etc... utfse

iv got no wrong ideas about dlimo not being toxic because of its smell - honestly dude, just pointing out that i dont see ppl taking their xylene tablets every morning.
d-limo and xylene are very similar in their solubility abilities - why anyone would want to use xylene for spice is a mystery to me.
for cactus its understandable, getting pure hcl from xylene pulls seems easier but there is some way around this that just needs to be found

[whatchamacallit]

Originally Posted by Phlux-

d-limo and xylene are very similar in their solubility abilities - why anyone would want to use xylene for spice is a mystery to me.

Some people like crystals instead of goo, white instead of brown.. Pure white shiny crystals of DMT, not the jungle goop. Hard to take some goo in your pocket to a festival or a show to use. And naphtha doesn't smell all that bad. SWIM doesn't know how smoking orange oil is so great.

[reut]

Originally Posted by Phlux-

you do realize that ppl all around the world are taking d-limonene as a suppliment - i think the doses are up to 100mg but iv seen ppl eating much more that that daily to prevent breast cancer etc... utfse

what exactly do i need to use the search engine for?

Originally Posted by Phlux-

iv got no wrong ideas about dlimo not being toxic because of its smell - honestly dude, just pointing out that i dont see ppl taking their xylene tablets every morning.

Thinking that it's fine and harmless to take sips of d-limonene is a wrong idea imo.

Originally Posted by Phlux-

d-limo and xylene are very similar in their solubility abilities - why anyone would want to use xylene for spice is a mystery to me.

If they're very similar then there's no point using d-limo unless you don't like the smell of xylene.
In fact, most people will prefer white crystalline material over brown/red goop and the transferability of it.
Also, xylene evaporates faster, so it's really not that much of a mystery.

Originally Posted by Phlux-

for cactus its understandable, getting pure hcl from xylene pulls seems easier but there is some way around this that just needs to be found

Why does it need to be found?
You can just wear a gas/face mask in a well ventilated area if you dislike the smell so much.

[Phlux-]

to get white xtals u need to freeze precip from naptha or xtallize from heptane - so if u want white spice from this extraction - get the alkaloids out fast with this tek - wash the final product with naptha or heptane and go right ahead and freeze precip ur spice ?

[whatchamacallit]

Sorry, no d-limonene experience for SWIM. He just doesn't see the point. Solvent smells don't bug him in the least. Don't know how soluble the orange oil is in other solvents, but SWIM suspects it's pretty good considering the things d-limonene can replace. Report back if you experiment!

BTW an STB on DMT is pretty darned fast and with this mexican bark SWIM has been pullin 20 g of spice per kilo. It's yellow, but with a quick recrystallization he is sure he can pull over a half ounce of white from a kilo easy, and still collect the leftover yellow for a lil yellow spice for those who prefer it.

[reut]

Originally Posted by Phlux-

to get white xtals u need to freeze precip from naptha or xtallize from heptane - so if u want white spice from this extraction - get the alkaloids out fast with this tek - wash the final product with naptha or heptane and go right ahead and freeze precip ur spice ?

Yes, but in doing so haven't you defeated the purpose of this tek? (to avoid the smell you don't like)
If you're going to be using naphtha, xylene or heptane at all then I don't see the benefit in using d-limonene to pull.

I apologize for being so negative, I just thought it was strange people saying "I only journey with naturally extracted spice (referring to the extract from this tek)" or "I won't use anything that's been extracted with chemicals".
Yes people are saying that.. (mainly reading these at the nexus though).
I think I'm just trying to counteract all the people that are saying that using anything other than d-limo is "not natural". Not really you Phlux-, sorry.

[whatchamacallit]

Originally Posted by reut

Yes, but in doing so haven't you defeated the purpose of this tek? (to avoid the smell you don't like)
If you're going to be using naphtha, xylene or heptane at all then I don't see the benefit in using d-limonene to pull.

I apologize for being so negative, I just thought it was strange people saying "I only journey with naturally extracted spice (referring to the extract from this tek)" or "I won't use anything that's been extracted with chemicals".
Yes people are saying that.. (mainly reading these at the nexus though).
I think I'm just trying to counteract all the people that are saying that using anything other than d-limo is "not natural". Not really you Phlux-, sorry.

Agreed reut, I mean it's cool and all, but it bugged me how 69ron came talking about how ridiculous it was to make the PH so high and to use smelly solvents, etc. SWIM has been doin it for years, and has never had any complaints, so for someone to come along and act like it's all natural, etc, is just kind of uppity. They're all chemicals, and while lye can burn you and fumes aren't the greatest, if one takes simple precautions, it's not much trouble at all. Anyways, SWIM still wants thank you Phlux-, for your pictorials and sharing. It really is nice to see new things. SWIM doesn't mean to sound negative either, just kind of a reaction to all the bashing of older conventional methods.

[Phlux-]

no prob's

swim never re-x's in naptha for pure spice - especially with this tek its not neccicary.
back in the day everyone wanted nice shards of spice, then ppl tried alternative extraction teks and found the not so xtalline stuff to be far more potent by weight and far better/more enjoyable.

8mg of this spice = 20mg normal spice in potency and the experience is far friendlier with a guiding feeling to it.


swim tried Jorkest's new tek, the fasw d-limonene one and it works even better than this one - the outcome is not goo, but rather a sticky brown sand.

in 3 sets of pulls done over 1 day swim got 1.2% out of his bark, pull set 4 was close to empty so the tek is efficient - check it out over on the nexus (dont think anyone would be happy with me either copy and pasting the tek here(its not mine) or linking directly to it.)

[Phlux-]

so swim took his final product - converted to fumarate



then freebased again to get this



just a repeat of the fumarate step cleaned it so much

[kcmoxtractor]

Thats some fuckin POTM stuff right there.... I think I just jizzed my pants.

[lysergic]

Originally Posted by whatchamacallit

Agreed reut, I mean it's cool and all, but it bugged me how 69ron came talking about how ridiculous it was to make the PH so high and to use smelly solvents, etc. SWIM has been doin it for years, and has never had any complaints, so for someone to come along and act like it's all natural, etc, is just kind of uppity. They're all chemicals, and while lye can burn you and fumes aren't the greatest, if one takes simple precautions, it's not much trouble at all. Anyways, SWIM still wants thank you Phlux-, for your pictorials and sharing. It really is nice to see new things. SWIM doesn't mean to sound negative either, just kind of a reaction to all the bashing of older conventional methods.

Agreed

[cap]

Originally Posted by whatchamacallit

20 g of spice per kilo. It's yellow, but with a quick recrystallization he is sure he can pull over a half ounce of white from a kilo easy, and still collect the leftover yellow for a lil yellow spice for those who prefer it.

[Phlux-]

even tho swim tried this drytek and liked it jorkests tek on the nexus seems to be the best - swim just wants to keep doing it its so nice and the yeild is large.

high ph using lye - for sure the best, swim wont be using calcium again.
d-limonene for pulling
fumaric acid saturated water to get the fumarates -
acetone wash
sodium carbonate to freebase em
and acetone to xtalize from.

no petrochems and nice clean jungle spice.

[ernestro]

ok i got a question

do these solvents, limonene and xylene evaporate completely, when the stuff is "ready to blow?

[lysergic]

Originally Posted by Phlux-

no petrochems and nice clean jungle spice.

I was under the impression that an A/B + Xylene pulls were needed to obtain jungle spice?

Originally Posted by ernestro

ok i got a question

do these solvents, limonene and xylene evaporate completely, when the stuff is "ready to blow?

Xylene does,
Limonene does not.

[whatchamacallit]

Originally Posted by lysergic

I was under the impression that an A/B + Xylene pulls were needed to obtain jungle spice?

SWIM can get the yellow/orange jungle spice with naphtha and a stronger acid, like HCl or vinegar. No need to use xylene or toluene, just evaporate the naphtha and one is left with DMT and the yellow oil and other alks that are in the mimosa.

[lysergic]

Originally Posted by whatchamacallit

SWIM can get the yellow/orange jungle spice with naphtha and a stronger acid, like HCl or vinegar. No need to use xylene or toluene, just evaporate the naphtha and one is left with DMT and the yellow oil and other alks that are in the mimosa.

I thought the jungle spice was red and supposedly insoluble in naphtha?
Even still, that's using an acid phase...

[whatchamacallit]

Well, SWIM definitely can tell a difference between the yellow and white but not the yellow and orange, so he thinks the more orange stuff just has more impurities. SWIM can even get the yellow with an STB, and it's just like the yellow from an a/b or xylene.. BTW, no one ever had any proof the alks weren't soluble in naphtha, they just have anecdotal evidence and SWIM would urge them to compare yellow/orange from naphtha and yellow/orange from xylene or toluene. He will bet one can't tell much of a difference if any.. Tolly and xylene probably are a bit stronger so the other alks may be more soluble in them, but they are definitely soluble in naphtha, from his experience.

[lysergic]

SWIM has gotten yellow from STB's as well, but didn't think that that was what the jungle spice was supposed to be.

Supposedly if one did all of the pulls with xylene,
then dissolved the result in naphtha,
this would separate the n,n from the jungle.

I also remember reading that jungle spice was also supposed to be way more intense at a much lower dose than N,N.

That said, SWIM has found yellow spice to definitely be different than white spice, but for a breakthrough dose, less white spice was needed than with the yellow.

[whatchamacallit]

SWIM has found the yellow to be stronger, usually. Either way, toluene, is fine for use by him, if he wants jungle spice, but he is happy with his two grades of white and yellow for whatever occasion he chooses.

SWIM has gotten a thick nice red chunk when using HCl as the acid for an a/b, and naphtha as the solvent. He let all yellow stuff from a recrystallization of a large amount of yellow/orange DMT in the bottom of a jar after decanting the white/clear solvent with the majority of the DMT off the top, and then froze that and filtered out the pure white stuff. He then added fresh naphtha and dissolved the DMT and let the naphtha evaporate slowly without a fan in an undisturbed area over several days and got large clusters of white crystals where the tips of the crystals were clear.

The orange stuff he left to cool and evap with the solvent from the recrystallization and was going to do more recrystallizations to get out all the DMT, but when he came back to mess with it, he found a hard red/orange crystalline chunk, like a hockey puck in the bottom of a pint jar. He broke it up and knocked it out of the jar in just a couple chunks. It wasn't very sticky at all and an opaque red/orange. This was called jungle spice by his friends and actually the preferred form for several of them.

For an honest comparison to be 100% sure, trying both side by side with a few different peoples opinion woud probably be best, but SWIM doesn't really need the convincing since he is happy with his results everytime..