DMT extraction, tap or distilled water? ..troubles raising ph above 12

[zpm]

hi, ive researched dmt extraction teks and now im kinda winging it as far as taking the best of what each tek has to offer.. im doin straight-to-base, a combo of lazyman noman vovin and marsofold teks.. except i seem to be running into problems already on first step..
i decided to use distilled water as i thought it might be cleaner, but i can't get the ph above 12.. should i just keep dumping in lye until it gets above 12? seems like i've already put in way more than proportions say (approx 1g lye per 1g rootbark).. oddly enough i have a cup of tap water that i put the stirring spoon in and it's ph is well above 13.. i havent added rootbark yet..
can anybody with experience offer some advice?

[Norman]

You don't need to measure the pH for any of those teks. For Marsofold's, add lye until you hit slippery black (you'll know it when you see it) and then add 25% more. For Noman's, just use 1/1 lye to bark and you're there.

[Calaquendi]

yeah, what he said...

(If you're measuring pH at 12, another good spoonful or two should put you straight, I would think...)

Just add more lye to concentrate the solution...

Good luck!

[Caljet666]

^^^ Both good replies. A good thing to remember is you can't really put to much lye in.

[ethnobotanica]

Like norman said, when it goes slippery black its ready. It will go gray first, then black-ish. Allow a minute or two for the reaction to happen.
Foaf uses tap water without probs, his water is already fairly alkaline (chalky area).
Dont forget to clean up the final product, foaf uses the cold ammonia tek without too much loss, its simply quicker than the other methods. Just make sure its well cold though.

[EmmisonJ]

Originally Posted by Caljet666

^^^ Both good replies. A good thing to remember is you can't really put to much lye in.

for all intents and purposes here this is true, but just so people don't go too overboard:

the maximum solubility is 111g NaOH per 100ml h2o at 20C (68F aka typical room temp). so if you add more than 111g NaOH per 100ml h2o then it will be over-saturated and will not dissolve unless you add more water to dilute the solution. if the aqueous layer is really dark, plus in addition to organic particulate, you may not be able to tell when its over-saturated. just keep track of how much of everything you use.

[whatchamacallit]

EJ is right on, and as long as the solvent separates fairly quickly, then you probably used plenty of lye. SWIm never measures, but he has used distilled water and tap water both with no noticeable difference in the results.

[Caljet666]

Yeah that is a good idea to keep track, however, if you do go overboard you can still complete the extraction as the NP can't pull the lye.

[whatchamacallit]

Someone asked SWIM in a PM how to get very pretty white large crystals so he explained it via PM. He figures maybe it would have been a good post, and so he'll post it here.

The only step he adds that he didn't to the PM, would be the one he describes as the sodium carbonate wash he just posted in a recent thread and he will add it to this post to make it complete.

Anyways, here's the response to the question,"How does one get pretty large white/clear crystals within a couple days?" :

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The easiest/fastest way, but comes out yellow, especially in larger extractions, is lysergics STB tek, or on other forums called the Norman tek or another name, which are all straight to base teks.

Basically, add lye to water, in the measured amount, SWIM finds about 1 gram lye per gram of bark, and the one tek recommends 15ml of water per gram, but SWIM has gotten away with less water.

Anyways, mix the lye water and let it stop heating after continuous shaking. Once it has stopped heating, even after you shake the shit out of it, the exothermic reaction is done, and the lye is dissolved totally in the water. Be careful and always add lye to water, slowly, shaking it well each little bit, to avoid making it boil. This is the most dangerous part of the process. Be sure to follow all precautions, like gloves, goggles, etc.

Once the lye water is mixed and done reacting, one adds the measured amount of bark to the water and shakes it very hard to mix it all up. Then let that sit for at least an hour, or two.

Once that is done, mix in the proper amount of solvent. If doing a half kilo, about 300 ml of solvent per pull is good. After adding the measured amount of solvent, shake it well, but don't shake the beejsus out of it, just make sure the solvent layer and the water/bark layer are mixed together well, then set the whole jug into a heat bath. Like your kitchen sink with the water as hot as it will get, and as high up the jug you can go, without making the jug float or the sink overflow.

Wait for 20-30 mins or so. As soon as it's totally separated, the solvent is ready to be removed from the top of the jug. Save it and repeat this procedure at least 2-3 more times with fresh solvent, for a total of 3-4 pulls. Combine them. Once that is done, there is the option of washing and drying your solvent, called a polar wash, but it's not 100% necessary.

(here is where the sodium carbonate polar wash fits.)

(OPTIONAL POLAR WASH with CRYSTALLIZATION)
SWIM does everything by eye. But basically, he gets hot tap water, say 300-400mls and adds sodium carbonate, stirring it in constantly and trying to get as much to absorb as possible.

After he lets it sit and some of the sodium carb, will not dissolve, he decants the liquid into a new container, leaving any undissolved solids in the bottom of the first container. He takes this water and uses maybe 50 mls (roughly) of water, then mixes this into the solvent containing the DMT . Usually, he has at least a quart of solvent from 3-4 pulls, when he is doing a half kilo or so.

He mixes in the sodium carb water, and shakes it. It separates within a few seconds, and he separates the layers, saving the solvent. He then performs the wash again, when the sodium carb/water starts to come out clear. He separates this the same way, and follows this with one more cold, plain water wash, which should be clear after this final wash, which he also shakes and separates quickly.

He uses baked, then crushed, epsom salts added to the solvent container and shakes it well, until he can see all the water absorbed by the epsom salts, and no droplets or water layer is seen. The epsom salts and solvent are then poured through a coffee filter, into a fresh dry container that will be covered and put into the freezer, or evaporated partially until the solvent gets milky white, then covers it and places it into the freezer, where it sits for 24 hours or so, until the crystals have all crashed out.

The solvent is then decanted off the top of the crystals and the crystals are scraped out of the dish into a baking dish or plate, to let completely dry in front of a fan. He also uses a razor to grind the crystals to a fine powder to help allow evaporation from a larger surface area than would be with larger crystals. These crystals are then scraped up and a recrystallization is performed, if desired.

SWIM believes that Vovin's tek actually explains this tek pretty thoroughly, so maybe give that a look, if this is not clear enough for ya.

(OPTIONAL RECRYSTALLIZATION)

Once one has the crystals out of the solvent with either method, they then take fresh clean solvent and get it almost boiling, at least, and extreme caution must be used when handling solvents. SWIM will leave you to research how to safely heat solvents, there are several teks already printed on the forum. (no flames, no sparks, and release pressure from your container, etc)

Anyways, one will then add the solvent slowly, using just little bits or drops at a time, and swirling it around until all the DMT just dissolves (then SWIM actually adds just a little more to make more clean DMT pulled from the first recrystallization). Once all the DMT is dissolved into the solvent, using as little, near boiling, solvent as possible, one will want to let this begin to cool. As it begins to cool, one will see the yellower and orange stuff sink to the bottom and separate from the white solvent.

This white solvent, contains the clean DMT , while the lower orange/yellow solvent contains some DMT and a bunch of other oils and alkaloids. One then decants (pours off) the clean solvent into a baking dish, making sure not to get any of the yellow/orange goo into it, and it's left to dry.

The process can be repeated on the orange goo until it is totally concentrated and one feels they have most of the clean white DMT out. The remaining DMT from the white solvent should have crystallized and be nearly or pure white. If it is not pure white, one may choose to repeat the recrystallization, and using heptane, aka bestine, is the best for recrystallizing and should make repeating the steps again unnecessary. Although, SWIM has used naphtha for this with great success.

One then can take the stuff that will look like the pictures of AndyLandy420's and redissolve that into fresh solvent and pour it into a small container with a smaller surface area, to concentrate the DMT to small area. This dish can be placed into a cupboard where it is left unbumped or undisturbed at all to evaporate completely on it's own without any heat or fan. This will grow very large crystal clusters that have clear tips.

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[whatchamacallit]

End results from 2 lb extract (before re-xtal) done one lb per gallon jug...