Extraction advice

[Raziel]

I tried my first extraction about 3 weeks ago and it went horribly wrong. I think I oxidised the product by using too much heat while trying to evaperate the solvent as quick as possible which resulted in yellow goo that would not crystallize. I am about to do another extraction and feel alot more confident but still have a few questions.

Can I do a "freeze prep" instead of evaperating the solvent if I used minimal solvent per pull ? I am willing to sacrifice some of the product within reason to avoid oxidising it but would ALOT of the product be lost this way ?

[Shadowlord]

The nice thing about a freeze precipitation is that you get the crystals to fall out w/ out having to evap and lose a lot of solvent and have a lot of stinky fumes around.
You don't have to worry about loss of product either as the left over solvent from the precipitation can be used again and still has spice in it so it isn't lost. After you have used it repeatedly, if it gets too yellow, is to then evap and see what crystal you can still get back out of the oils. And for the greatest part that oil is smokable too but it will have oxidized DMT and other alks in there so the trip will almost certainly be a bit different.

But back to your question. I think the F/P is the way to go. Naptha takes forever to evaporate for me in Sea-town and takes a week or more if I don't use heat which always gives me oils instead of crystals.
What you need to do is use your normal amount of solvent for your pulls. Collect all your pulls together and the you will need to put them in a hot water bath to warm it and use a fan to help it reduce. You want to reduce by 50% or greater. If it gets cloudy when you blow on it then you are there. Once you get it reduced then take off of the heat bath and let cool to room temp. Then transfer to the fridge and after a few hours, or longer if you like, finally put in the freezer. Leave in for at least 24hrs and you will have your spice on the bottom. Quickly decant your solvent and let the remaining solvent dry off of the crystals and then scape up.
Let me know how things go and if you have any questions.

[sagiboy]

did ya got something like this?

[Norman]

And make sure your freezer is COLD. You could pound nails with the ice cream from mine. It makes a huge difference.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by sagiboy

did ya got something like this?

Yes

[sagiboy]

3 weeks and its still goo?

[apokalypse]

If your goo is soluble in water, it is DMT n-oxide. Try testing if this is the case with just a little bit of goo. There are teks around to convert n-oxide back to freebase DMT with the use of zinc dust, vinegar, and sodium carbonate.

If your goo is soluble in naphtha (some of it might be), you could heat up (very carefully) some naphtha so that it will be more soluble, and then evaporate it down in the jar to 100/150mL and do a freeze precip.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by sagiboy

3 weeks and its still goo?

Well it is probably still goo in a land fill somewhere, galfriend binned it while I was a work.

Originally Posted by apokalypse

If your goo is soluble in water, it is DMT n-oxide. Try testing if this is the case with just a little bit of goo. There are teks around to convert n-oxide back to freebase DMT with the use of zinc dust, vinegar, and sodium carbonate.

If your goo is soluble in naphtha (some of it might be), you could heat up (very carefully) some naphtha so that it will be more soluble, and then evaporate it down in the jar to 100/150mL and do a freeze precip.

I read about all the teks and what to do to tell if it has oxidised. Couldn't be bothered with all the hard work for just a small smear of dmt goo. I just had 500g prepowdered delivered to just going to start over and learn from mistakes I made preveous.

[sagiboy]

Originally Posted by apokalypse

If your goo is soluble in water, it is DMT n-oxide. Try testing if this is the case with just a little bit of goo. There are teks around to convert n-oxide back to freebase DMT with the use of zinc dust, vinegar, and sodium carbonate.

If your goo is soluble in naphtha (some of it might be), you could heat up (very carefully) some naphtha so that it will be more soluble, and then evaporate it down in the jar to 100/150mL and do a freeze precip.

its not soluble in water.
cant get my hands around heptane/good naphtha...
3 days and to goo is not even close to be dry or scrapable..

[sagiboy]

how about mixing that goo with warm water at ph13-14 and do a pull with naptha? thats basicly repeating the original pull tek just on plain water mixed with that goo, and what wouldnt mix with the water will mix with the naptha..

or should i end up with the same goo?

[Calaquendi]

Originally Posted by sagiboy

its not soluble in water.
cant get my hands around heptane/good naphtha...
3 days and to goo is not even close to be dry or scrapable..

what solvent did u use for the original pulls?

if it (goo) isnt water soluble i dunno that hitting it again with high pH will do anything, and if youre going to use naptha anyway, just heat naptha and mix goo until it dissolves and freeze precip.

I never recommend heat for evaporation, safety concerns aside, its too easy to fuck up. People may be surprised but doing a straight evap with a small fan in cold air works like crazy....my buddy has an old fridge in his garage and he put his tray in it overnight w fan and you couldve made a snowman from that shit. cool air evap is awesome, i've even left shit outdoors in deep winter w fan it's like a hybrid freeze precip/evap thingy, works great. anyways good luck and thanks for sharing...

[Raziel]

Yeah definatly keep the heat to a minimal when evaperating, learnt form my mistakes.

[alicesamanita]

Hmmmm---WTH?
I never did anything like this---i had some bundleflower and soaked it in alcohol--that has dmt in it--this is crazy---i dont even know what is going on! Well, I do,but didnt know that this went on----;P
Dont even know how to even attempt it---hmmmm! But i love chemistry!!!! Perhaps i should take a shot at it!

[bbd2]

Originally Posted by Raziel

Yeah definatly keep the heat to a minimal when evaperating, learnt form my mistakes.

which tek are you following this time?

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by bbd2

which tek are you following this time?

http://forums.mycotopia.net/dmt-spic...-easy-stb.html (Clean & Easy STB) (Clean & Easy STB)

[bbd2]

this version of that tek shows how to do freeze precipitation instead of evaporation

http://forums.mycotopia.net/botanica...pictorial.html (Whatcha's Easy MHRB STB Extraction, Step by Step Pictorial)

[Raziel]

Seen that one before and it is a very good write up. I will have to do some more reading as that tek calls for epsom salt (i dont have) and soda chrystals (which I do have).

[opiatoker]

Originally Posted by Raziel

I tried my first extraction about 3 weeks ago and it went horribly wrong. I think I oxidised the product by using too much heat while trying to evaperate the solvent as quick as possible which resulted in yellow goo that would not crystallize. I am about to do another extraction and feel alot more confident but still have a few questions.

Can I do a "freeze prep" instead of evaperating the solvent if I used minimal solvent per pull ? I am willing to sacrifice some of the product within reason to avoid oxidising it but would ALOT of the product be lost this way ?

try smearing a tiny bit of that yellow goo on some foil and chase the dragon. you'll be beyond shocked.

[sagiboy]

Originally Posted by opiatoker

try smearing a tiny bit of that yellow goo on some foil and chase the dragon. you'll be beyond shocked.

might try tonight...

[sagiboy]

Originally Posted by Calaquendi

what solvent did u use for the original pulls?

attached.

used lysergic*whatchamacallit teks
4 first pulls were combined and freezed for 18h or so.. there was something collecting at the bottom, more like sand in size..
couldnt keep using the the freezer so decided to do quick evap with hair dryer.
turned out to be the 2nd attached pic.
so i added 100ml hot naptha, waited, nothing sank no yellow no goo no dmt,
freeze for 24h and it was cloudy like LC but nothing was at the bottom so i took it out and evaped it under fan, room temp.
+ made 2 more pulls after 2 days. that is the small pyrex.
no heat, only fan. same goo.
cant get heptane (maybe ill try harder...) and i guess my goo is due to my naphtha.

mixed the small pyrex (5th,6th pulls) with 100ml hot water last night, most of it clumped into unstirable poo, reminds me glue, and some oil floats on water and the water is slightly yellow and cloudy.


goo.

[opiatoker]

i have a feeling your poo goo is the spice. smell it. spice has a strong distinct odor. if it has that smell it is spice, if not.. well you know, its not.

[Shadowlord]

Sagi.

It sounds like you are freeze precipitating w/o reducing the amount of solvent first.
The heat seems to make the oils at the very end o0f the evap.
I use a warm water bath and a fan to reduce to at least 50% maybe more.
The solvent should go cloudy when you blow on it.
When it is saturated like that, the spice starts falling out of solution quickly and by the next morning I would have spice.
I know that is the case because I use to have the same problems you are having. Until I ran the tek a few more times and got the hang of it.
NOt too much heat, use a warm water bath and fan, and then put in freezer. If you have spice in your solvent, it will be there by morning. Wait until evening or the next day to make sure you have it all. It works good for me and my freezer doesn't get as cold as I would like. If it was colder in there like Norman talks about. It makes things go even quicker and more completely.
Good luck. I hope you are able to crystallize that goo. If not, try a rip of it in your pipe if it smells like DMT. Ask around, that oil is active. Just not as tasty perhaps. You'll notice that the crystals melt into that same substance once you start hitting crystal anyways.

[apokalypse]

When I did my first extraction, I used a fan to evaporate the naphtha very fast - it probably took an hour, but I was left with the goo too. It seems fanning the solvent has some adverse effect to letting it evaporate over a few days time.

[Raziel]

When you put your tray in the freezer and all the DMT crashes out, how do you collect the DMT ? I guess it is in crystal form at this point but do you carefully just pour off/suck up the Naphtha and if so is the remaining Naphtha evaperated ? some Naphtha would remain either way I guess

[Shadowlord]

I usually use a small jar or something similar. And then I pour off the solvent saving it for further use ( especially as there is still some DMT in there! ) and then use a rubber scraper or spatula, ( used for baking, scpraping the side of the mixing bowl ) whatever they are called, and scrape out onto a pyrex dish and let them dry completely and chop up and store/use.

[Raziel]

I was using something simular to your mineral spirit last time. Although I heard great stories it was a real pain to evaperate. This time I am using a ligher fluid that evaperates much more easier and so less heat and air will be need to help with the evaperation.

How long can I wait between pulls before more lye is needed to acidify the slippery oily root bark mix or is there no reason to add more lye at all ? The problem is this lighter fluid is expencive and in 133ml containers and so I will have to keep recycling the solvent betwwen pulls and after the freeze prep.

[Shadowlord]

Lye is not acidic it is basic. At the other end of the pH spectrum.
If you have the aqueous solution basic enough you shouldn't need to add more lye. The solvent picks up the DMT when the MHRB sludge is basic enough to turn the DMT into a free base. The solvent can only hold so much DMT so that is why we do repeated pulls to make sure you get it all.
You can add more lye after a pull. It may help, especially in STBs where the baek breaking down may neutralize some of the lye. YOu really can't add too much lye ( w/ in reason ).
Hot solvent can hold more than cold solvent. Also reducing ( partially evaporating) the solvent makes it more saturated. That why when the solvent is cooled and put into the freezer the DMT starts to fall out. The cold solvent can no longer hold on the DMT and it falls out as a crystal.
Think of boiling off salt water. There will be salt at the bottom at some point or when done. Same idea, different substance and solvent.

[bbd2]

your deem needs to be pretty pure for crystals to form

stb product many times has too much "jungly goodness" mixed in with the spice
the more mixed in the harder to solidify

that being said, fuck with it some, scrap it, chop it up move it around, smear it back on there. it eventually hardens up
how fast and how hard depends on how much white dmt is in there

[Norman]

Originally Posted by bbd2

that being said, fuck with it some, scrap it, chop it up move it around, smear it back on there. it eventually hardens up
how fast and how hard depends on how much white dmt is in there

Yes, one has found that with jungle spice too. If you chop it/scrape it/chop it/scrape it a couple times a day, it will take on a sort of crayon consistency instead of something that must be smeared onto mullien or parsely or whatever.
Actually, I'm finding more and more that these cruder evaporated extracts are much more interesting than pretty glass shards and it's endlessly fascinating to faction them in various ways to get different alk ratios.
It would be cool to do a study where one does the crudest extraction possible from a kilo of premium MHRB, pulls from that with different solvents, and compares the effects on a group of people.
Maybe I need to wake up the Antarctican.

[Calaquendi]

Yeah, Norm...

Two summers ago I was getting fluent in A/B extractions when a buddy found this 'new' tek online. It was Vortex's STB - and after doing nothing but A/B's I looked at the new tek and thought "no fucking way this'll work"...

So we did two extractions at the same time (the a/b and the 'new' one), I still have the notes...I was astonished at the results, I figured if anything, I was wasting a hundred grams of bark to prove the tek bogus...not so.
The extractions were 100g mhrb batches...the A/B yielded just under a gram of snow white crystals....but the STB pulled out 1.1g of canary yellow shiny shards. Couldn't believe it. The quality of the yellow spice surpassed that of the 'cleaner' stuff. It was stronger, deeper, much more visual and just felt better altogether. I haven't done an A/B since and I've re-xtlized some STB to get white spice just to compare the effects, and it seems that since then, I don't get really satisfied from the clear/white spice...it just seems to me, 'lacking' with respect to the clearer stuff.

But, as they say..."it's ALL good"

[Norman]

Haha - that was exactly my reaction when I first encountered an STB. It was by Soma and posted by someone that I think was to later rename themselves Vortex, though he hadn't tried it at the time either. My jaw dropped when the yield ended up 20% higher than the A/B control batch.
The difference between glass shards and cruder extract became most glaring to me when I used shards in Ayahuasca. The come up was really fast and intense and I settled in for a spectacular ride and an hour later I was coming down. All flash and sizzle, no euphoric bliss, entities, home movies, astral travel, nothing.
I wonder if the heat has anything to do with the difference between A/B and STB extracts. There is a cold phosphoric acid extract waiting in the freezer to be tested against a hot batch - I'll try to get to it this weekend for starters.

[Calaquendi]

That's kinda interesting about heat, I hadn't considered it much further than 'expediting' the saturation of the solvent...but now u mention it, I bet you get noticeable differences.
I'm interested to see what you come up with!

[opiatoker]

Originally Posted by bbd2

your deem needs to be pretty pure for crystals to form

stb product many times has too much "jungly goodness" mixed in with the spice
the more mixed in the harder to solidify

that being said, fuck with it some, scrap it, chop it up move it around, smear it back on there. it eventually hardens up
how fast and how hard depends on how much white dmt is in there

yeah something i found out, ig you put that goo onto foil, and take a hit, or just use lighter enough to produce smoke, when it cools back down, it will cool into solid form. therefore if you have a TON of oily goo, and want to make it hard, just evenly heat it to make sure all of it got the heat and burned out whatever liquid / chemical is in there keeping it from hardening.

a great benefit of this would be, since the liquid or whatever that is in it, keeping it from crystallizing or hardening is basically boiled out, if you put it all into a baby food jar, or something with a lid that is smaller, the smaller the better. then get some nearly boiling naphtha or other similar solvent (a solvent that will only dissolve the spice when very hot) and drop by drop add it to the spice until it is all diluted, and not a drop more, then put the lid on it, and let it slowly cool, and once room temp, put it in the refrigerator, and once as cold as possible from the fridge, then put it in the freezer. after a few hours in the freezer all of it should have crystallized into rather large crystals. the most important part of this, is to use a solvent that WILL NOT break down the spice unless it is VERY hot. or one that WILL NOT break it down at all, with a few drops of one that will only break it down when very hot. the last one i just mentioned will get the very most out of it, and will give the best possible results while also making the crystals very pure. (been reading my science books, this is a very good rex tek)

[Norman]

Originally Posted by opiatoker

yeah something i found out, ig you put that goo onto foil, and take a hit, or just use lighter enough to produce smoke, when it cools back down, it will cool into solid form. therefore if you have a TON of oily goo, and want to make it hard, just evenly heat it to make sure all of it got the heat and burned out whatever liquid / chemical is in there keeping it from hardening.

That's interesting because if one takes a goopy xylene jungle evap and washes the DMT out of it with room temp heptane, it will usually dry out fairly solid. Maybe it's the DMT in the presence of those unknown alks staying liquid, and heating the goopy extract does the same thing as the heptane wash in getting the DMT out of there. I'm assuming here that the DMT vaporizes first, which has been my experience.

[opiatoker]

Originally Posted by Norman

That's interesting because if one takes a goopy xylene jungle evap and washes the DMT out of it with room temp heptane, it will usually dry out fairly solid. Maybe it's the DMT in the presence of those unknown alks staying liquid, and heating the goopy extract does the same thing as the heptane wash in getting the DMT out of there. I'm assuming here that the DMT vaporizes first, which has been my experience.

i've personally never experimented with xylene or heptane, but the heptane thing sounds very interesting. i have in the far distant past experimented with toluene, and not positive but i believe xylene to be very similar? which is similar to coleman except more "dry". meaning more sensitive to moisture and faster evaporating which is much like naptha? I assume? well, i do know for a fact that the spice evaps either very last or next to last. one of SWIMs very first (of maybe 10) spice experiments, he had soo much of the yellow goop, like tons, but he didn't know anything about it, he figured he'd dry it out and try to do a rex to it, in hopes of seeing some pretty crystals... well, when he had it in the pyrex dish, he has it in the garage on a burner on medium heat. he has played with pops for a little while at this point so he just figured it'd dry out as pop putty does and won't burn, and if it did, will be minimal. anyway, by the time it began getting quite thick, there were no more recognizeable chemical smells, there was about a full tablespoon of it in the dish, and was thick enough that he probably could have just let it cool, and would have been hard, and it smelled very strong of spice (even tho he didn't know what he was smelling at that point), he went inside the house for just a few minutes and came back out, WHEW the garage smelled like there had been a spice inferno, i'm surprised he didn't fall into a trip just by entering the garage, he ran over to the dish with the spice to save whatever is left, it was a white/very slight yellow powdery charcoal, with a deep yellow / very light brown border around the white. it was all dmt. wasted. lots of it.

the reason i just said all that is because the way he described it, so vividly, i am pretty confident the spice was the very last thing to go. unless it was second to last, and maybe some trace amounts of plant material made it all the way through til the end, but don't really think so.

who knows, i could be wrong. well, i'd be emberassed to say it, if i were talking about myself, but since it was swims stupidity, i'll say it.... he did it again. both times there was a lot of spice that he wasted, and both times were the exact same scenerio.

[whatchamacallit]

Once again, SWIM will state, that heat should never be used for evaporating naphtha with DMT, because the DMT melts at a very low temperature, and will result in goo or worse, vaporized DMT, as opiatoker found out the hard way.

[sagiboy]

looking better? after 10h at the freezer.

[whatchamacallit]

Looks like water in the bottom of that jar, which will not allow the DMT to crystallize properly, from the freezer. This is the reason to separate them and use the epsom salts to dry the solvent. Water in the solvent will cause problems when trying to crystallize, and can make the DMT unable to crystallize.

Perhaps it's just the way the light is hitting the bottom of the jar, but if it's water, then that's no good. If it's not water, then perhaps the naphtha used has unwanted admixtures that prevents freeze precipitation. The goo can be turned into crystals with a heptane recrystallization.

[sagiboy]

no water inside. mixed the goo with 70ml naphtha.

[opiatoker]

Originally Posted by sagiboy

its not soluble in water.
cant get my hands around heptane/good naphtha...
3 days and to goo is not even close to be dry or scrapable..

a great replacement for naptha SWIM recently discovered is kingsford charcoal lighter fluid. that can be bought ANYWHERE!

[opiatoker]

Originally Posted by whatchamacallit

Once again, SWIM will state, that heat should never be used for evaporating naphtha with DMT, because the DMT melts at a very low temperature, and will result in goo or worse, vaporized DMT, as opiatoker found out the hard way.

haha!! thanks...


well got some quite interesting news....
i've been looking for my pyrex dishes. had 2 4" round, 2 6" round, and 1 8" round. broke the 2 6" and the 8" by cooling waay too fast, and should have still had the 2 4" ones, yet could only find one of them.... looked and looked for the other. well gave up on it close to 2 weeks ago. then yesterday i caught glimpse of something odd but recognizeable. it was my missing dish sitting my windowsill hidden by curtains. i picked it up and had a memory flashback. i had spice in naptha and wanted to evaporate it slowly, but the fact that i wasn't too interested in taking another voyage, i must have just forgotten about it. no biggie. anyway, the dish is holding a couple grams of yellow goo!! thought it'd be solid by now, as it looks like it should be, but when i touched it, it has the consistency of crisco, any suggestions to make it more user friendly?

[whatchamacallit]

Recrystallize with heptane.

[sagiboy]

you were right man!
forgot it in the freezer over a week and..

Originally Posted by Shadowlord

Sagi.

It sounds like you are freeze precipitating w/o reducing the amount of solvent first.
The heat seems to make the oils at the very end o0f the evap.
I use a warm water bath and a fan to reduce to at least 50% maybe more.
The solvent should go cloudy when you blow on it.
When it is saturated like that, the spice starts falling out of solution quickly and by the next morning I would have spice.
I know that is the case because I use to have the same problems you are having. Until I ran the tek a few more times and got the hang of it.
NOt too much heat, use a warm water bath and fan, and then put in freezer. If you have spice in your solvent, it will be there by morning. Wait until evening or the next day to make sure you have it all. It works good for me and my freezer doesn't get as cold as I would like. If it was colder in there like Norman talks about. It makes things go even quicker and more completely.
Good luck. I hope you are able to crystallize that goo. If not, try a rip of it in your pipe if it smells like DMT. Ask around, that oil is active. Just not as tasty perhaps. You'll notice that the crystals melt into that same substance once you start hitting crystal anyways.

[radical]

my first attempt ever was w some mhrb powder. instead of using the whole LB that i bought on eba for 50, i used 166.6667 g's of powder.

i used three simple items. ly, vm+p, mhrb powder.

2,500 ml water
166 g's of powder
150 g's of L

using 150 ml of nap and then increasing as the honey jar was wide and it took a steady hand to turkey base well.

hour after leaving it for the first pull i added nap and left for four hours. agitated few more times and extracted. got barely any crystals from that. did a second pull quite shortly after. got a ton of nice white crystals. did about three more pulls and and they all came out white and pasty yellow but light yellow.

i used a fan right on the glass plate and it went pretty quick. started the whole thing at 1pm and at 11pm had done three pulls and took off to the strangest land i ever knew. the fourth pull was done the next morning and either that one or the fifth had little crystals. out of the amount i used it seems there is about 20+ doses.