hypothetical spice procedure?? any thoughts?

opiatoker · 10-07-09, 16:11

hey all.
i was just wondering if this would work...

i am only assuming the reason to pull the spice into the solvent at the end of the procedures is to get pure clean spice? my friend has not had too much luck getting crystals, and maybe because he is impatient, he heat evaporates the solvent, leaving the sludge of course. now the sludge is not very soluble in water, or naptha, heptane... etc. at least he hasn't been too successful in doing so. nor is it very soluble in water. it's kind of an insoluble oil that never dries. from some reading of other topics i assume it is mostly because he got it way too hot while doing the evaporate?

anyway, he has a few pyrex dishes with this yellow, dark brown, or orange red speckles, globs, or thin layers stuck on the bottoms and edges. out of curiosity he decided to just add just enough water to it, so that while moving the dish around the water could move to each area of goo on the dish, in hopes to collect all the goo into 1 water puddle. of course the water just ran over the goo, without disturbing it. then he added 2 tiny pinches of NaOH and swirrled. like magic, now the goo diluted into the tiny amount of basic water. he thought about just evaporating the water and figured he should have some actually dry spice. then it hit him, the spice will be a ph 13 or so, which would not be fun. then he thought to add a few small pinches of sodium bicarbonate to neutralize the spice. up until he added the sodium bicarbonate the spice had various other odors mixed in the spice odor. after the sodium bicarbonate, it smells strongly of spice and nothing else. and the liquid is a deep yellow color. there is white powdery materials forming at the bottom of the liquid, which i assume is the sodium bicarbonate.

now, if he were to pour off the yellow liquid, and let it dry, what would he have? would that be freebase DMT? since it should be neutral, will it dry hard? would it melt when dry and heated? anyone ever try anything like this??

bbd2 · 10-07-09, 17:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by opiatoker

now, if he were to pour off the yellow liquid, and let it dry, what would he have?

lye mixed with dmt mixed with sodium carbonate

Quote:

would that be freebase DMT?

the dmt would be in freebase form, yes

Quote:

since it should be neutral, will it dry hard?

its not neutral, you didnt do anything that would lower pH
it will probably dry hard because of the lye and sodium carbonate in it

Quote:

would it melt when dry and heated?

youd have to test that

Quote:

anyone ever try anything like this??

first ive heard of it

piggy69 · 10-07-09, 17:41

you wont enjoy smoking any residual Lye. It hurts!

Why not just try following the easy STB guide?

Good luck

kcmoxtractor · 10-07-09, 17:57

What you need to do is take your water and dilute it 20x. Add a few more grams lye (or a rounded tablespoons worth if you don't have a scale), then pull with 200mL of naphtha 3 times. Save your naphtha pulls and pool them, then put that naphtha in the freezer, stop being impatient and evaporating. That seemed to be a big part of your problem, along with lye contamination(I can tell just by the colors you described, I don't even need a picture). Wait for 3 days! Then pull your naphtha out of the freezer, and decant the naphtha from the crystals that have freeze precipitated by now.

Don't try evaporation, especially heat evaporation, you will just end up with a large amount of DMT-N-oxide.

10-07-09, 18:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by piggy69

you wont enjoy smoking any residual Lye. It hurts!

Why not just try following the easy STB guide?

Good luck

I agree totally why mess with a proven method and cause the results to be questionable. The teks here are tried and true.

kcmoxtractor · 10-07-09, 19:08

Yup, Whatchamacallit's tek is very straight forward, and if your bark is of any quality at all you can pull 1%.

opiatoker · 10-07-09, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystic

I agree totally why mess with a proven method and cause the results to be questionable. The teks here are tried and true.

because when you screwed up the proven method and have money invested, and the proven method is at this point obsolete because it has already been messed up, and you still have all the product in a bottle just waiting for you to figure out how to get at it, well... you experiment and improvise. unless you have a better solution?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcmoxtractor

Yup, Whatchamacallit's tek is very straight forward, and if your bark is of any quality at all you can pull 1%.

and if your bark had already been boiled continuously at 3 hour intervals and extracted 3 times with a lot of acidic water, weeks before whatchas tek was shared???

opiatoker · 10-07-09, 21:43

i'm sorry, i mis-phrased my sodium carbonate in the original post. i should have said sodium bicarbonate.
the bicarbonate will neutralize the lye, and then letting it sit until the bicarbonate drops to the bottom and pouring off the liquid should leave a clean freebase. one would assume...?
does that make logic of it??

lysergic · 10-07-09, 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcmoxtractor

What you need to do is take your water and dilute it 20x. Add a few more grams lye (or a rounded tablespoons worth if you don't have a scale), then pull with 200mL of naphtha 3 times. Save your naphtha pulls and pool them, then put that naphtha in the freezer

In this particular hypothetical situation,
I would have to agree with this.
Hypothetically, of course.

opiatoker · 10-07-09, 23:06

as far as i am aware, my friend has half lb MHRB on the way.
he will follow whatchas tek to the point. except cut in half.

911aware · 10-07-09, 23:08

ignore post.

Ferretious · 10-08-09, 00:35

Hate to knitpick opiatoker but to neutralise a high ph (alkaline) you need to add an acid. Sodium bicarbonate is an alkaline. Not as high as NaOH but still alkaline.
Peace be with you brother

opiatoker · 10-09-09, 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferretious

Hate to knitpick opiatoker but to neutralise a high ph (alkaline) you need to add an acid. Sodium bicarbonate is an alkaline. Not as high as NaOH but still alkaline.
Peace be with you brother

yeah he did eventually add a few drops of muriatic which did neutralize it. but he's gonna scrap that whole mess because he needs the containers now. he is having a bit of an ethics issue tho. he ordered 1/2lb but 2 packages arrived. apparently someone made a mistake. he's got a pound, and only paid for 1/2 lb... what to do??

Thre365ive · 10-09-09, 19:38

You can convert that DMT-N-oxide back into N,N-DMT by dissolving it in an acidic solution (HCl or H2SO4 preferred) and adding an excess of zinc dust. Then just proceed as normal. Don't use heat to evaporate this time.

opiatoker · 10-09-09, 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thre365ive

You can convert that DMT-N-oxide back into N,N-DMT by dissolving it in an acidic solution (HCl or H2SO4 preferred) and adding an excess of zinc dust. Then just proceed as normal. Don't use heat to evaporate this time.

thank you. i will definitely let my friend know this, just in case something goes wrong with this next extraction..... i'll be sure to get some photos if all goes well.-

Thre365ive · 10-09-09, 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by opiatoker

thank you. i will definitely let my friend know this, just in case something goes wrong with this next extraction..... i'll be sure to get some photos if all goes well.-

Make sure to look up some more info on this before you try it. I've never tried it myself, but it is very sound theory, and people at the Nexus have had good results with it.

Ferretious · 10-10-09, 02:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by opiatoker

yeah he did eventually add a few drops of muriatic which did neutralize it. but he's gonna scrap that whole mess because he needs the containers now. he is having a bit of an ethics issue tho. he ordered 1/2lb but 2 packages arrived. apparently someone made a mistake. he's got a pound, and only paid for 1/2 lb... what to do??

Sounds like your good fortune

!

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10-07-09, 16:11	#1 (permalink)
opiatoker gizmologist Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 318	hypothetical spice procedure?? any thoughts? hey all. i was just wondering if this would work... i am only assuming the reason to pull the spice into the solvent at the end of the procedures is to get pure clean spice? my friend has not had too much luck getting crystals, and maybe because he is impatient, he heat evaporates the solvent, leaving the sludge of course. now the sludge is not very soluble in water, or naptha, heptane... etc. at least he hasn't been too successful in doing so. nor is it very soluble in water. it's kind of an insoluble oil that never dries. from some reading of other topics i assume it is mostly because he got it way too hot while doing the evaporate? anyway, he has a few pyrex dishes with this yellow, dark brown, or orange red speckles, globs, or thin layers stuck on the bottoms and edges. out of curiosity he decided to just add just enough water to it, so that while moving the dish around the water could move to each area of goo on the dish, in hopes to collect all the goo into 1 water puddle. of course the water just ran over the goo, without disturbing it. then he added 2 tiny pinches of NaOH and swirrled. like magic, now the goo diluted into the tiny amount of basic water. he thought about just evaporating the water and figured he should have some actually dry spice. then it hit him, the spice will be a ph 13 or so, which would not be fun. then he thought to add a few small pinches of sodium bicarbonate to neutralize the spice. up until he added the sodium bicarbonate the spice had various other odors mixed in the spice odor. after the sodium bicarbonate, it smells strongly of spice and nothing else. and the liquid is a deep yellow color. there is white powdery materials forming at the bottom of the liquid, which i assume is the sodium bicarbonate. now, if he were to pour off the yellow liquid, and let it dry, what would he have? would that be freebase DMT? since it should be neutral, will it dry hard? would it melt when dry and heated? anyone ever try anything like this?? Last edited by opiatoker; 10-07-09 at 21:46. Reason: changed the original sodium carbonate to the correct sodium bicarbonate, sorry for any confusion.

10-07-09, 17:41	#3 (permalink)
piggy69 E.O.S Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 139	you wont enjoy smoking any residual Lye. It hurts! Why not just try following the easy STB guide? Good luck __________________ If you're going through Hell, Keep going... (Winston Churchill)

10-07-09, 17:57	#4 (permalink)
kcmoxtractor Satan's Helper Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,094	What you need to do is take your water and dilute it 20x. Add a few more grams lye (or a rounded tablespoons worth if you don't have a scale), then pull with 200mL of naphtha 3 times. Save your naphtha pulls and pool them, then put that naphtha in the freezer, stop being impatient and evaporating. That seemed to be a big part of your problem, along with lye contamination(I can tell just by the colors you described, I don't even need a picture). Wait for 3 days! Then pull your naphtha out of the freezer, and decant the naphtha from the crystals that have freeze precipitated by now. Don't try evaporation, especially heat evaporation, you will just end up with a large amount of DMT-N-oxide. __________________ "It was the straying that found the path direct" - Austin Osman Spare

10-07-09, 19:08	#6 (permalink)
kcmoxtractor Satan's Helper Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 2,094	Yup, Whatchamacallit's tek is very straight forward, and if your bark is of any quality at all you can pull 1%. __________________ "It was the straying that found the path direct" - Austin Osman Spare

10-07-09, 21:43	#8 (permalink)
opiatoker gizmologist Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 318	i'm sorry, i mis-phrased my sodium carbonate in the original post. i should have said sodium bicarbonate. the bicarbonate will neutralize the lye, and then letting it sit until the bicarbonate drops to the bottom and pouring off the liquid should leave a clean freebase. one would assume...? does that make logic of it??

10-07-09, 23:06	#10 (permalink)
opiatoker gizmologist Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 318	as far as i am aware, my friend has half lb MHRB on the way. he will follow whatchas tek to the point. except cut in half.

10-07-09, 23:08	#11 (permalink)
911aware Vision Seeker Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 213	salvaging a soak of mhrb ignore post. __________________ It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm wearing milk bone underwear. -norm

10-08-09, 00:35	#12 (permalink)
Ferretious achuman Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 231	Hate to knitpick opiatoker but to neutralise a high ph (alkaline) you need to add an acid. Sodium bicarbonate is an alkaline. Not as high as NaOH but still alkaline. Peace be with you brother __________________ Reality + surealism = SUREALM, the place of my dreams!

10-09-09, 19:38	#14 (permalink)
Thre365ive Alchemycologist Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 490	You can convert that DMT-N-oxide back into N,N-DMT by dissolving it in an acidic solution (HCl or H2SO4 preferred) and adding an excess of zinc dust. Then just proceed as normal. Don't use heat to evaporate this time. __________________ This planet was not handed down by our ancestors. It was loaned to us by our offspring.

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