Re: My E. Coca (Columbian Strain) plant.

[Shrooms&I]

Hello, there all I am relatively new to this mycotopia.net regards posting and receiving feedback and generally participating in this forum. I found the information very helpful for my mushroom cultivation (mostly so far strains of P. Cubansis) and the like. But I have recently acquired since year of 2007 a fine but young and very healthy Erethroxylon coca plant (Colombian strain).

I found it in my home town at a small store, the vancouverseedbank "search them on google". They do have quite a wide variety of botanicals. And other herbal seeds and of course the "good stuff". So I thought I would share some progress photos of this plant. And in turn I would like to see if and or other users' or forum members are having any success with coca plants? In particularly when cultivating them direct from transfered berry (where seed is located) And if so, please let me know.

I am not sure if this is correct, but I have read the coca plant can live up to 60 years; many sites and articles sight this on the Internet here, but being cautious I take this with a open mind though with a grain-of-salt. I had purchased the plant after it started growing in its I guess you could use the term "juvenile" stage. (way beyond "baby" or "seedling" stage). So far so good, I have other herbs but will post them in the appropriate threads.

Over all let me know what you think of the photos? I cant wait till the plant develops "seeds" or berries. Should that occur, I will post photos to this thread. its one of the many that develop berries with in its own plant so to speak. I have seen a couple coca related threads on this entire forum so I thought I would contribute more to this.

I have had this plant since as of last year' January 2007 and doing well.

[scientia]

Can't say as I've ever seen one before, but it looks healthy. What kind of lighting do you have on it?

[Shrooms&I]

Hi there "scientia", I am very minimalist with mostly CFLs up to 40watts, they my plants along with coca plant shown in photo are doing quite well.... Your basic generic, store bought CFLs. But I have had great success with basic CFLs, I quite like them and find many uses for DIY projects in this field.

[scientia]

I might try and take a cutting or two. You chewed any of the leaves yet?

[Shrooms&I]

Hi, "scientia" yes I have tried chewing a couple of the leaves. One time my mind and body were not in the mood to get up the morning. Day light savings and I don't get along. So I found it useful to chew a couple of the leaves. Be aware depends on the amount leaves chewed. The constituents being the active compounds in the leaves in particular are where "lidocaine" and or "Novocaine" are derived from synthetically so it has a similar effect if chewed too much some areas in the mouth could get a bit numb. But if you stick with two or more leaves they will perk you up and its generally safe this method of consumption. More immediate then coca-tea, you could say it's between a strong hit of coffee and redbul.

Also a wine called "Vin mariani" is fermented from this leaf to, have not tried that but I hope to learn one of these how that is done. Vin mariani also comes from Peru mostly but known in that part of the world.

[vinz]

beautiful plant!
is it hard to grow? any tips?

[scientia]

Sounds nice. I never really liked coffee that much anyways. Makes me, well...you know. I bet you get a tolerance pretty quick though. Kinda like those betel nuts I chewed for about a week, til they lost their effect and I realised they turned my mouth red.

The wine sounds pretty kick ass too. I would assume you just make a wine of your choosing (damn near anything can be made into wine) and throw the leaves in there too. (ground leaves would be better) The ethanol will take care of the rest.

[Shrooms&I]

As to the cuttings, I have seen some on the web a couple "companies" one called "pachamama" based in Holland on the web. They have sold their coca plants in cuttings. So I am going to give this a try see which works. As for germination rate, there of' this I am not sure'. I was told from the people in the store where I have purchased the plant from. And I have read on a care sheet for my plant. The seeds or "berries" are moisture loving. This makes them the "berries" prone to drying out. But if they are cared for in the right conditions they can germinate the berries and seedlings prefer humidity then they do tend to grow after hardening them. But this is all the information I have so far accumulated. If I had some data to back this up I would post it. Perhaps that will be an experiment when the plant is ready to produce berries.

[Shrooms&I]

hmmm, I got into coffee quite young, but if I get tired of it and desire something else. There are many alternatives out there that can perk you up. Indeed I have read some where anything that "rots" can "ferment". I have heard of alcohol "spirits" being made from peppers and the sorts of all things. But I look forward to eventually fermenting some of the vin-mariani but I hope to have some cuttings and some successful germinations. For now just careful observation of my plant, and proper care. There is another drink from Colombia, more comparable to a coca-cider called "Coca-sek", fermented by the Paez people (an Indigenous group in Colombia) that is carbonated. Coca Sek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The main exporter of coca tea from Peru is one called "Zurit" though there are a couple others. And about the responses I received' from a friend of mine who is from there, he is Inca decent from Peru. He told me when he worked on a coca farm as a "cocero" or coca farmer this was 1989 he tells me. He was quite pleased and amazed to see the coca plant in the condition it is in. In Peru the farm he worked on as taxed by the government quite heavily..., the farmers had some for personal consumption but the rest was taxed for export.

[Shrooms&I]

Hi "Vinz"; I purchased the plant for around $80.00 Canadian dollars, pricey but for what that is worth its worth every penny in my view and I am sure the view of many on this forum. I don't have much tips to offer. But I keep the plant regularly watered, every morning. I know the plant was bread locally in my town some where, on the site "Vancouverseedbank.com"; they mention the breeder is a guy or person named "coca guy" self explanatory I guess for the plants he likes to breed botanically speaking. But at the same time though I should point out the web site says they are out of stock. I am not sure if they ship to the US for coca plants. But I would say if I find any US retailer or source online, or others from Europe I will post them as well. Its a juvenile plant, from what I know, quite young but they can live from 60 years total. That fact alone asides its cultural and "illicit"; uses. fascinates me, just had to have one my self, and with this specimen I am quite pleased. I too am new to cultivating this plant but experienced with others. So if I learn anything I will make sure I post either more text or photos, from the techniques I learn for cloning, cultivating, germinating so fourth. I should also say the germination is the most difficult part, but when I learn, I will be letting you (and others on the forum and on this thread) know. For this plant I am very much a student, but I guess we all are in life.

[duaut]

I've seen thousands of the E. coca plants and thats not a E.coca
The leaves are way to thin. Coca leaves are fat.
Sorry, I've been going to South America for 20yrs now
That is not E. coca

[Shrooms&I]

Hi Duat, do you know what the botanical name of this plant is? This would help in confirming the name of the plant, which would be much appreciated. I have read some where the coca plant has a total of 17 strains but only two contain high enough cocaine alkaloid regards to other uses. But over all, welcome in my "collection" Coca - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - Wikipedia description Image:Erythroxylum coca.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia - image This plant self do have similar flowers perhaps a related or distant cousin then? and I would like to know which country in South America have you been going to?

[CoyoteMesc]

Prankster's E. Coca




From http://forums.mycotopia.net/botanica...-seedling.html

The leafs dont look much bigger on his. Could it be cultivated vs wild?

[Shrooms&I]

Nicely done;" Coyotemesc";, I have yet to here other thoughts on what mine could be. But I am checking the book which I have. title is "medicinal plants of the world"; The authors are Ben-Erik an Wyk and Micheal Wink, ISBN number 0-88192-602-7. I would recommend this book be in any botanists library but that is me finding it very useful, on page 137 specifically mentions the coca plant in quite some details descriptively. But for the with of one of my leaves turned out to be 7.6cm length and 1.4cm width. As to the size, I am only assuming (not any expert what so ever:-) but I think either it could be wild cultivated or it could be cultivated indoors to achieve a larger leaf. but only assuming I don't have the answer for that one. Just hunches from looking at Prankster's plants. ====================================

[scientia]

There's a possibility that it is "super coca" a relatively new strain that has thinner greener leaves, and is highly resistant to herbicides. It was bred to combat the US' crop dusting some years back.


Google Image Result for http://www.mindfully.org/GE/2004/RoundupReady-Coca27aug04.GIF

Or it could just be a cultivation vs wild thing as coyote said. What kind of root system does it have? Cause it looks like it could use a bigger pot.

[scientia]

Here's another article, I remember reading this one when it came out. That's what made me think of it.

Wired 12.11: The Mystery of the Coca Plant That Wouldn't Die

If it is "la millionara", lucky you

[scientia]

I guess you could take a cutting and hit it with some roundup and find out...

[teesus]

Originally Posted by duaut

I've seen thousands of the E. coca plants and thats not a E.coca
The leaves are way to thin. Coca leaves are fat.
Sorry, I've been going to South America for 20yrs now
That is not E. coca

the leaves could vary from wild plants because of artificial light. i dont know about coca,but many plants have great variation under different enviromental settings

oh, coyote just saied that

[Shrooms&I]

Hi Teesus; thanks for the input, but I am also awaiting the information as it comes along this site. Any will help me verify what this plant maybe if it is coca or not. I still think its E. Coca because of the flowers. Speaking of which its starting to flower soon, and I will have photos of them upcoming. The flowers are small and have 5 or 6 petals, and are a bright cream white in colour.

I do only have minimal lighting in my place, but that is dew to current finances at the time. I don't have the cash to obtain the ever cool' 400wt HPS or 90wt CFLs at this time. So I make do with what I have. I was thinking of the width and lengths of the leaves to. Got to make some light reflectors soon, I have one made from aluminum sheet metal using tinsnips to cut the metal into shape, just got to find some attachment to hold the light fixture in place.

Also I know the coca plant from images do develop "fruits" or "berries" and the seeds are located in them.

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[Shrooms&I]

Hi Sentia: I have read the article, found it quite intriguing here. Definitely some method in there to experiment with based on the information of the articles.

[scientia]

Originally Posted by Shrooms&I

Got to make some light reflectors soon, I have one made from aluminum sheet metal using tinsnips to cut the metal into shape, just got to find some attachment to hold the light fixture in place.

I might suggest getting some flat white paint for metals and painting the reflector. Only a few dollars and it should help some.

[Shrooms&I]

Hi Sentia, good idea here, also may try ordering some mylar, to assist in this. But for now I am assuming the white paint works best? I will use the white paint to avoid any "hot spots" so to speak that the glossy kind is often known to produce "assuming". For a plant like this I would prefer to achieve uniform lighting in my little grow area. As to the lumen's and other measurement specs, mostly I gather info from here or on the packaging. But later on I may purchase a "light meter" to measure the lumen's and other useful data in this field here.

[Shrooms&I]

More photos of plant... flowering... beginning to bloom.

[hyphaenation]

...

[Shrooms&I]

Took these photos today, the flowers are blooming. Petals are quite small but noticable comparisons to their small buds prior to flowering.

[CoyoteMesc]

Looking good, keep us updated with the growth,

~Archive Material to Botanicals

[Shrooms&I]

Hi Coyotemesc; thanks, I just feed the plant regular filtered tap water. I dont trust too much fertilizers because. I don`t want some of them (the fertilizers how ever concentrated or organic based) to be incompatible or go out of range with this plants particular N-P-K nutrient range.

For example nitrogen is important, which cannabis seems to like certain amounts from the info on I have read over the WWW. But if one adds to much I read some where that way to high ammounts can cause certain types of bacteria and types of fungus to grow along with over dose of nuet's. Its all about syngergy and ballance so I am learning these days.

I do occasionally give some minuite trace amounts of "shultz 7 drop regular solution" but that is about it though. I know that is not organic, lol:-). I do have a container of "mid-night sun, a brand of organic fertilizer", quite concentrated, but I dont like to change fertilizer regimes unless if required.

Though with "shultz 7 drop fertilizer" I do trust it for some small minute uses. But so far so good. I have not spotted any blight, to desease or deficiancy of any kind. as for my other herbs (will post those in other specific threads in forum).

Same treatment "feeding regime" goes to them, particularly when dealing with plants that I am just learning to cultivated. I have some other herbs growing a "mandragora officianalis", .aka "mandrake", and also "datura meteloides", or "toloache, in Aztec language".

[Nunyabiz]

Dude thats totally awesome!!!... Does anyone have seeds for trade or rooted clones? Swim saw a website with the seeds for sale but they are a bit spendy.

[Shrooms&I]

>>> Hello all, I have taken these photos yesterday Wednesday 2008.03.19. Flowers are starting to bloom, near completion of blooming.

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[Shrooms&I]

Originally Posted by Nunyabiz

Dude thats totally awesome!!!... Does anyone have seeds for trade or rooted clones? Swim saw a website with the seeds for sale but they are a bit spendy.

Hi there, not at this moment, the seeds are not there and I think it would be too young to clone, I have not had the experience in cloning this plant either. When I learn to do soo, I will post another thread related to this thread regards cloning and documenting the experience' that is to come in the future.

Should I find any success with the seeds or clones, I will let you know. I would be interested if you have any thing for trade as well. But I know there are rules here on the forum about that sort of thing of what one can and cannot trade. So I will check those out to make sure, but prior to trading.

I would rather have a viable succes rate with the plant then just traditing a dead-clone' (one that did not germinate). So more has to be done prior to to any viability for trading, after that is done I would interested.

I have been learning it's almost all trial and error regards this sort of thing

I will keep you all posted regards this plant, so far so good.... I too am quite impressed with the success with this plant.

Over all, I am very pleased with the results my self Thanks for the compliment.

[Shrooms&I]

I hope this, works, yesterdays photos, taken on date 2008.03.19 Wednesday.

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[Shrooms&I]

>>> To continue this discussion could this be a "erethroxylum cactaractum"? this was a strain once reported to be the first grown in captivity thanks to the Hew Botanical Gardens in London, England a half a century ago.

Input would be appreciated.

or could this plant be then?

E. Novo = Erythroxylum Novogranatense

>>> It does have similar flowers to E. coca this is how I was making that determination, could be way too premature on my part of the assumption. But I am still pleased to have this plant. Just confused on what it maybe botanically and or species wise.

thanks.

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[califnewbie]

I've started growing an e. coca seedling that I ordered from overseas. I've got it under a fluorescent bulb in a propagation dome. The growing medium recommended by the seller is 40% stabilized coco peat, 20% akadama, 20% kiriyu, 20% kanuma (the last 3 ingredients available as bonsai supplies). This makes a well drained, mineral-rich, low-humus mixture.

After a couple of months it's now a few inches tall. The seller said it doesn't need fertilizer the first few months, but now I'd like to try a tiny bit. What formulation works the best? The seller won't give me any tips on that because he wants me to buy his booklet. (After the pricey seedling I just don't want to spend more money.)

Here's a photo of my expensive little guy. Any suggestions for fertilizer? I read that iron is helpful (and the leaves are looking a bit yellow between the veins).



Any help would be much appreciated! --Jackie

[Shrooms&I]

Originally Posted by califnewbie

I've started growing an e. coca seedling that I ordered from overseas. I've got it under a fluorescent bulb in a propagation dome. The growing medium recommended by the seller is 40% stabilized coco peat, 20% akadama, 20% kiriyu, 20% kanuma (the last 3 ingredients available as bonsai supplies). This makes a well drained, mineral-rich, low-humus mixture.

After a couple of months it's now a few inches tall. The seller said it doesn't need fertilizer the first few months, but now I'd like to try a tiny bit. What formulation works the best? The seller won't give me any tips on that because he wants me to buy his booklet. (After the pricey seedling I just don't want to spend more money.)

Here's a photo of my expensive little guy. Any suggestions for fertilizer? I read that iron is helpful (and the leaves are looking a bit yellow between the veins).



Any help would be much appreciated! --Jackie

>>> Hello there, thank you for the information. I have receievd your on-site PM here. any information on cultivation is apprecated in particular species identification. I purchased mine in my home town by a store selling ethnobotanical "entheogens" and the like. Mine was purchased as a very young shrub. and i have tranplanted it a couple times. Though seems to be doing well. Mine has flowered more then several times. However please do post more photos after the growing stages since I had not cultivated mine from cutting or seed. This would be another angle to observe such growing patterns of this plant and related species (erethroxylum .spp). Thanks for the info. However this is news to me, I did not or was not aware that bonsai supplies or growing mediums would be a source to grow this plant medium wise though definately this is a consideration however definately worth the research into.

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[califnewbie]

So what do you use for fertilizer for e. coca?

[Shrooms&I]

Originally Posted by califnewbie

So what do you use for fertilizer for e. coca?

Hello there, in responce to your question. Nothing too fancy or expensive. I mostly use the basic "shultz fertilizer" (the 7 drop liquid veriety with the eye dropper). Otherwise I use an organic fertilizer by a small company called midnight sun.

[Shrooms&I]

Originally Posted by Nunyabiz

Dude thats totally awesome!!!... Does anyone have seeds for trade or rooted clones? Swim saw a website with the seeds for sale but they are a bit spendy.

>>> Thank you for the compliment much appreciated, my plant is doing well. However what sucks is my cammera died though so I have ordered a new one though it had a defective battery. Now I got that settled when the new battery arrives I will have more pictures shown on this thread soon. The coca plant is doing really quite well. So far it's flowered more then a fair share of its times. I my self am quite impressed.

[Shrooms&I]

Originally Posted by duaut

I've seen thousands of the E. coca plants and thats not a E.coca
The leaves are way to thin. Coca leaves are fat.
Sorry, I've been going to South America for 20yrs now
That is not E. coca

>>> Hello Duat; I would like to politely and temporarly disagree with you untill a positive identification is made in regards to the photos of my plant in question. with you on this if I am wrong on this statement I will retract my temporary disgrement should I be wrong on my own information. What I am asking of you though what species do you think it is? and also how wide are the leaves? did you observe the size of the flowers in bloom? of the coca plants you observed your self? I have counted the coca plant flower petals and observed the leaves under my microscope. As well as examining the veins of the leaves. A real asured positive ID would be to have any kind of test like a mass-spectrometer test but I dont have access to such technology. from very generical eye-ball examination both my plant and book photos show five petals (ones in botanical books) and the actual plant its self. I have a friend who is Inca from Peru (who lives in my city) and is my music teacher though he is quite knolwedgable on things like Ayahuasca or Yage, to coca plants regards the usage of these entheogens. And he [my friend] travelled back and fourth from Peru and so on and he is also under the impression to that this is a varient or strain of the coca plant. He [my friend] could be wrong too. I know from what you said in your message you travelled there to South America. I would like to know what you are basing your information on regards to your sitings of "e. coca" in South America? This would be helpful to positively varify what this species of plant is. I have a hunch however please keep in mind its a very young plant. I know Coca plants can live for 60 years (does that sound correct to you)? I am thinking it could be a strain similar to what was bread after importation to the Kew Gardens in England the E. Coca Carthinagensis strain. Which has a much shorter width of the leef and lenth of leef as well . There are many different coca strains I read any where from 17 strains to over all 200 identified coca strains. 2 of the strains are positively documented in which both them contain the active cocaine molecules present in the plant (located in their leaves) in heighest concentration. All I am saying is that i am keeping my mind open on this subject till a positive ID of the plant is absolutely varified. I will let you and all know on this thread regards this "specimen" of this plant. Thank you for your input though.