HBWR preparation: zero nausea quick onset guaranteed

[Hippie3]

1. Scrape seed coating off and run through flame lightly.
2. Wash seeds. (Let dry)
3. Grind seeds.
4. Place ground seed into empty teabag. Tie bag closed with the string.
5. Prepare a few ounces of ICE cold distilled water and lemon juice.
6. Dip bag in water and agitate 6-30 minutes with a spoon.
8. (DISCARD TEABAG) Strain liquid through coffee filter.
9. Drink the LSA extract.

(NOTES)
You may need to use additional seeds to compensate for the loss of LSA in the extraction. About 1/4-1/2 more seeds is ROUGHLY needed. The longer you agitate the teabag, the stronger and more efficient the extract will be. BUT you may experience more nausea/body-load. Drink the tea SLOWLY to minimize any side effects

I ordered 50 seeds from Bouncing Bear Botanicals, and the first night I tried them, I peeled the fuzzy outer covering off of the seeds and ate eight of them with a friend of mine. We ate 2 every 15 minutes for an hour, and the trip didn't set in for at least another hour. We chewed the seeds until it was time to eat two more, so we were basically chewing for an entire hour straight. We got horrible nausea and didn't trip that hard at all, but it was still enjoyable.

Last night, we did this following method, and some of you mind find this helpful. None of us (3) got nausea AT ALL, and we all tripped really, really hard with a very quick onset and a very long peak. Personally, I will never dose HBWR any other way.

1) Peel the fuzzy outer covering off of your seeds.
2) Grind in a coffee grinder into a fine powder.
3) Let soak in a few tablespoons of pure lime juice for 30 minutes in a decent sized drinking glass, mixing every 10 minutes.
4) After 30 minutes, mix the lime juice with a good amount of orange juice.
5) Drink slowly, swishing around in your mouth like mouth wash, but you don't have to overdo it.
6) The last mouthful will be a lot of the hard, ground up powder. You can opt to chew it, but none of us did, we all chugged it, and tripped fine.

Within 20 minutes, you'll begin to feel the onset of the trip. It'll come on hard, and you'll be already be tripping before the nausea has a chance to kick in [or perhaps the lime juice killed the nauseating chemicals?]. Either way, you won't feel sick.

from the DVD
Posted on Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 02:59 pm:
archive material to vaults

[vp7]

interesting. i gave up on the seeds long ago due to the terrible body load. (cyanide poisining aint fun) anyway, i don't have a good relationship with the plant or the chemical, so i'm unlikely to try it again. i have a much better medicine now.

[Son of O'or]

Great Tek! Certainly a much better one than many I have seen that involve ETOH, etc.

This is much like the traditional method used for morning glory seeds in Mexico. Most of the nasties are left in the seeds and the good stuff goes into the water/lemon juice. I have done such an extraction without the lemon juice and it worked quite well. I did leave the ground up seeds to soak overnight though.

[Beastmaster]

I've only done morning glory seeds, but using a coffee filter instead of your kidneys is a major plus. And I think acidifying the solution with either lemon juice or vinegar helps reduce the body load. Also adding a bunch of powdered ginger helps stave off the nausea. And a spoon full of sugar helps the medicine go down...

(edit)
I wonder if water temperature affects dissolution of undesireables? ie warm water... bad body load next morning - ice cold water as mentioned above ... no body load?

[Hippie3]

could be,
cold would dissolve less crap

[lsd_freak]

you want to use some type of acid (citric acid, or lemon juice are the easiest to drink) to make the alkoloids more water soluable. Cold water would have a harder time for soaking up the LSA, but it would have more LSA in the long run because LSA, like LSD, is a very unstable molecule and readily breaks down under heat.

A way to get rid of more nausia is to grind up the seeds, then let them soak in lighter fluid (zippo or ronsonal work best ime) this extracts alot of the fat and nausiating stuff, while leaving the LSA safely in the seeds because they're not soluable into naptha (the lighter fluid). soak them for a few days in the dark, stiring them a few times a day to help the naptha do its thing. then discard the lighter fluid, let the seeds dry out, and continue as mentioned in Hippie's post. The extra effort will save your stomic in the end. make sure the seeds are completely dry after you discard the lighter fluid, as the fluid will make you sick.

Originally Posted by lsd_freak

you want to use some type of acid (citric acid, or lemon juice are the easiest to drink) to make the alkoloids more water soluable. Cold water would have a harder time for soaking up the LSA, but it would have more LSA in the long run because LSA, like LSD, is a very unstable molecule and readily breaks down under heat.

A way to get rid of more nausia is to grind up the seeds, then let them soak in lighter fluid (zippo or ronsonal work best ime) this extracts alot of the fat and nausiating stuff, while leaving the LSA safely in the seeds because they're not soluable into naptha (the lighter fluid). soak them for a few days in the dark, stiring them a few times a day to help the naptha do its thing. then discard the lighter fluid, let the seeds dry out, and continue as mentioned in Hippie's post. The extra effort will save your stomic in the end. make sure the seeds are completely dry after you discard the lighter fluid, as the fluid will make you sick.

Or you could do an alcohol extraction after the naphtha wash... That is a lil more efficient I believe, but what's a few extra seeds?

[synth]

how long does the hbwr trip last?

[kam]

12-14 hours in my experience, with 5+ seeds

[kam]

By the way, I don't recommend it at all. Bleugh.

[myceliod]

hmmm...

[synth]

kam, did you prepare them like as discussed here, or did you do something different? (and maybe if i prepared them as discussed here, it would be pleasant?)

[Dozer 2]

Okay Folks, here’s the skinny on the nausea. You are not going to eliminate the active nausea causing alkaloid(s) performing a polar/non-polar wash or a simple solvation extraction with any of the usual suspects. I have heard or read that cyanide is a culprit in the nausea but I can’t find any non-psychonaut sources establishing it as a constituent in any of the usual suspects. However, a much more convincing culprit that seems to jump out as a constituent of all the usual suspects and is documented in both psychonaut and non-psychonaut sources is a class of alkaloids called “oxytocics.” This class of biologically active compounds does indeed cause nausea and vomiting. And since they are alkaloids, they will follow lysergamide (also an alkaloid) during the standard kitchen extraction. Probably some type of solvent extraction followed by titration and re-crystallization would need to be performed. Theoretically this could be performed in the kitchen with the usual wally world stuff, but some thought would have to precede.



That’s my 2 cents –hope it was useful.

[Hippie3]

theory
versus trial-and-error
hmm, i need to get a quantity of hbwr
and see for myself i suppose...

[Dozer 2]

Trial and error is definitely a legitimate scientific approach. I don’t think the acidification with lemon is to be abandoned; just that it doesn’t eliminate the nausea causing agents.

The citric acid would convert all alkaloids to a citrate derivative and allow for a more water-soluble compound, but wouldn’t necessarily isolate lysergamide. All the alkaloids are ergoline and oxytocic. Even the principal sought after lysergamide in the seed is an oxytocic. The god of all chemists stumbled upon LSD while looking for an efficient uterine contractor.

The chemistry just isn’t there; IMHO the nausea is an inherent side of the alkaloids present in the seed. The reduction in the level of discomfort felt is probably a result of the rate of absorption. The longer it sits in the highly acidic and enzyme rich gastric juices the more time it has to react and become any number of by products. Remember, when you mix a weak base (all alkaloids are) with a strong acid (gastric juices) the results are acidic. Thus the nature of the molecule is altered. These byproducts, of which one or more stimulate the receptors of so many a psychonaut in the nausea department, are probably the culprit. Another fundamental to account for is that like dissolves like. If the lysergamide is already converted into a citrate, then it is absorbed rather quickly –leaving little time to react with the plethora of enzymes and such in the gastric juices.

There are considerably stronger acids compared to gastric juices and citric acid; however, an alkaloid is teetering between neutral and basic -so these acids are strong in retrospect. The acidification with lemon juice doesn’t eliminate, but rather creates a more bio-available derivative.

[Hippie3]

ever tried them, dozer ?

[dead_diver]

I won't go near LSA after my last Morning Glory trip many years ago. Vasoconstriction was so bad I had cramps in my arms, legs and even my heart hurt. Not fun to experience when you're tripping.

[Dozer 2]

About 8 years ago I ordered some from an online organic nursery. Me moms was still living in 1967 and we both ate about 15 seeds powdered in a coffee grinder. The onset was slow, maybe an hour before any noticeable alertness. Came on steady, the feeling was like that pre-peak excitement before you finally crossover into a full blown orange sunshine experience, but never amounted to anything. Mostly an intense pre-peak paranoia that wouldn’t go away. No nausea on my part, but me moms said she felt like she had been poisoned. She got off, but said it never quite crossed over into a full experience. We finished off the bag about 3 ½ weeks later with a close friend. Same results again for both of us. Don’t know why I didn’t get any nausea, could be all that hard drinking I did in the service!



It’ll pass the time that’s for sure… But I’d rather hike deep into the Ozarks and chew some spiny cactus!

[SyntheMesc]

There is a thread on this topic over at aya.com....

Its an a/b naptha/methanol extract calling for removal of the seed coats.

Some had success, and no nausea.

Looking to boost my yields, I proceeded with the extraction seed coats on.

After dressing head to toe in winter gear, I set out on a frozen lake in the morning with temps reaching 10º below zero.

All was good, and mild for a bit....

THEN I VOMITTED LIKE MAD IN THE FREEZING COLD!

Maybe I'll try it w/o the seed coatings in this lemon juice and see what happens.

[lsd_freak]

the coating is what causes the most nausia, simply scraping off the outer coating until you get to the solid seed, then a light toasting with a ligher (not too much or you'll start destroying alkoloids) will clear up alot of it. a full on extraction, doing what i said above, but insted of water, use a strong alcohol will clear up even more negatives. I do massive extractions of Hbwr (kilos+) for the lsa to hydrolozise it to plain lysergic acid and the result from the simple extraction is actually pretty pure, pure enough for it to be a waste of my time to purify it further before i preform the hydroloziation.

[Hippie3]

all in all
i think i'd prefer my
'cid cooked from
cold water & lemon juice
than with
lighter fluid and wood alcohol.
esp. when someone i don't know/trust
is doing the cooking.
but to each his own, i reckon.

[kam]

Synth:
I did a number of different preparations. I've eaten them whole (could only manage it a few times, now I don't think I could eat these things again without instantly vomiting). I've also powdered them and made capsules with five seeds each. This takes a while to take effect, sometimes 2-3 hours before they are actually felt (they may have been slow-release capsules). Lastly, I've made cold water extractions. This was the best way by far, because it hits within 1-2 hours and doesn't feel as toxic to me.

With all of these methods, I could not totally avoid naseau. The best way I found to combat this was to eat a small snack of light food as they take effect. I think that the Lysergic acid amides in these are actually somewhat toxic themselves, so it is impossible to get rid of the feeling that you've poisoned yourself. These seeds have a number of other effects that make them undesirable to me. When I took them, they would both make me feel "up" and zoomed, mentally, but at the same time lethargic and sick physically. I often found myself, due to the long duration, wanting to sleep in the middle of the night but unable to because of the trip. This was not fun. I also had a number of bad and borderline-bad mental trips with these that shook me a lot. Flashbacks and depersonalization for weeks after also occured after a period of my heavy use.

Once I ran out of these, I made the decision not to buy them again. Even though they are wicked cheap and quite potent, I feel better spending a bit more money to buy or grow mushrooms. Morning glory and hawaiian baby woodrose seeds are not worth what they will do to your body and mind.

[SyntheMesc]

Yeah, more and more I find mushrooms are the ideal material for me to utilize.

The more exotic trips are cool, but not as reliable.



I dosed 3 fairly potent blotters last saturday morning, and haven't felt right since.

[Hippie3]

i'm beginning to suspect that much of what passes for LSD these days
is just LSA extracted from hbwr seeds
just as outlined above with the naptha/methanol.
damn few have the talent and means
need to make real 'cid
but just about any freak
with a zippo, paint thinner and some hbwr seeds
can make pseudo-cid
and soak it on some blotter paper.

[synth]

thanks for the input, kam [and others]
.....
"i'm beginning to suspect that much of what passes for LSD these days
is just LSA extracted from hbwr seeds "


damn =[

[terrace the high]

the last time I did hbwr, I took 13. These supposedly came from Jonathan Ott.They had no fuzzy coating, just hard black seeds.I crushed them in a coffee grinder and put them on a peanut butter sandwich.I got incredibly nauseous, couldn't vomit.I also got way too high, such a speedy anxiety attack that I couldn't sit still. I tried a shower, didn't work. Then I walked down the road,one of my usual tripping panic strategies "I'll just keep walking till I come down enough".It was dark, and the cars streamed by me in a blur.I realized I couldn't tell if I was safely out of the road, no sidewalks, so I decided to head back.I was worried about someone else tripping alone back at the house, so I had to balance my fear with feeling responsible for the other person. I don't drink, but I had a healthy strong screwdriver which seemed to calm me down. My friend was equally sick but not nearly as high(smaller dose). I still have some seeds but doubt I will try them again, though I have had very enjoyable trips with these seeds many times before. Looking forward to put some of this groups collective knowledge and experience to use and stay with the allies I have known and loved over the last 30+ years. Making an extract would put me in one of those unknown dose situations I really don't feel comfortable with, I know I'm a scaredy cat,but I've been learning to listen to my inner voice, and not try to prove anything to myself or anyone else. Sorry this was so long...

[Hippie3]

not try to prove anything

a wise attitude

[kam]

Originally Posted by terrace the high

I've been learning to listen to my inner voice

Definitely, man, these seeds are bad news.

[I_am_me]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

i'm beginning to suspect that much of what passes for LSD these days
is just LSA extracted from hbwr seeds
just as outlined above with the naptha/methanol.
damn few have the talent and means
need to make real 'cid
but just about any freak
with a zippo, paint thinner and some hbwr seeds
can make pseudo-cid
and soak it on some blotter paper.

I guess its possible but I can honestly say I've eaten a lot of acid in the last 10 years and it was all really good Lsd. The only times I've ever been ripped off is when it was just plain ole paper with nothing on it at all and that was long ago when I let that happen.

[lsd_freak]

i've never come across any lsa under the guise of lsd. The trips aren't close enough to be confused by anyone well experienced with real lsd IMO. Although i do enjoy the occational Hbwr trip when i'm doing a natural brew. I've eaten 21 seeds at once before, and it was an insain night, thats for sure. I started watching futurama when i was coming up and i was stuck in a world of futurama for the first 3 hours of the trip. I was bender and my friends were various futurama characters. I've found hbwr to be pleasant most of the time, although the taste of the seeds is by far the worst taste i've ever encountered. the smell of them alone is enough to put me near puking for hours, but others dont have that at all. Everyone's got one thing they just cant stand the taste/smell, and this is it for me. I usually crush them and put them in gellcaps if i'm eating seeds.

[Hippie3]

well i've done a bit more research
and the actual evidence supports
at least the feasibility of
blotter LSA.
LSA is about 1/10th to 1/20th the strength of LSD
and can be 'effective dose' strength
on a single piece of blotter paper
if properly refined/purified.

i know enough about people and greed
to be willing to bet that there are folks
out there doing it.
and i already know of one reported case too.

[mycojay]

i got some gels on phish lot last year in brooklyn which were supposedly from bonnaroo. I started to take of and having ate a large amount of the real deal in my life knew these weren't real after a while but still ended up in what i described as a pseudo trip. It was strange

There haven't been real geltabs really flowing since '99-00. Maybe an occasional gel, but it's been a long time since i have eaten a real geltab...