cake questions [merged]

[CALICAAA]

My first flush on a BRF cake is turning brownish/yellowish on the surface. Is it because i have it sitting in front of the fan? is the fan drying it out? Are those signs a sign that it is thirsty?

And why are my fruits so small this time around?
hm........lolz.

CAL

[perrch01]

I think they usually turn bluish when they are thirsty. The last time I had any turn brown/yellow it was b/c there was water sitting on them.


Did you house suckerfree's avatar?

[~Hippie3]

a cake should be in a humid chamber with no steady fan.
describe your set-up ?

[cutty]

Even better if ya got a pic that would help greatly.

[destroy_erase_improve]

maybe a contam? that could be a possible reason for the stunted growth also.
lets hope thats not the reason though. a picture would be the best bet for any of us to help identify whats going on.

[CALICAAA]

well........I'm using perlite in a rubbermaid tub, with a computer fan that goes off every 2 hours for 30 mins. Since I have perlite, that should be sufficient for humidity, BUT it isn't.....water doesn't bead off the sides of the tub.....it's not really humid. So i bought a Vicks Humidifyer and i leave that on for like 10 mins..........but no matter how long i leave it on.......5 mins. to 15 mins.........it tends to leave water ON TOP of the cakes........so should i chuck the humidifyer and trust the perlite? Is that why my cake is yellowish in color?
So blue means thirsty?

THANKS,
CAL

[cutty]

It sounds like the lid of you terrerium is leaking water droplets on your cake.My solution to this is I put a layer of vaseline on the lid for my terrerium,that usually stops the water from forming on the lid.

[python]

often times cakes tuyrn yellowish when the lose their nutrients..........

[CALICAAA]

Cutty: vaseline? Does anyone else do that? Sounds weird and messy

Wouldn't water still bead and run off of the vaseline? DOES IT HAVE TO BE A THICK LAYER? OR just a thin layer?

sounds weird, :P

CAL

[cutty]

Originally Posted by CALICAAA

Cutty: vaseline? Does anyone else do that? Sounds weird and messy

Wouldn't water still bead and run off of the vaseline? DOES IT HAVE TO BE A THICK LAYER? OR just a thin layer?

sounds weird, :P

CAL

I put a 1/8 inch layer of vaseline on the lid, and yes the water still beads up a lil but none will drop onto your cakes, if you put enough vaseline on. I use a pair of medical/rubber gloves to apply it,or you can use a bunch of napkins/kleenex and rub it on the lid. That will help you to make it a clean job.

[~Hippie3]

chuck the fan & the humidifier,
perlite's all you need for rubbermaids & cakes.
a nice deep 3 inch layer of damp perlite
no standing water
and a lid that seals good
then just open to vent once a day

[reverend trips]

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y37...1/IM000231.jpg
these are the third flush of mexicans from the same batch but the one on the right is really soft and squishy, maybe i didn't mix up the ingredients equally?
has anyone else had a cake go soft like this? it still smells like a fresh mushroom, and flushed better than any cake i've grown. maybe it got waterlogged from the dunk, but it feels weird.
anyone else have this happen?

[destroy_erase_improve]

wow
thats a nice flush
beautiful zoomers

maybe the cake on the right has the correct moisture content, but the one on the left is too dry. making it seem like the one on the right is "soggy"

[reverend trips]

Originally Posted by destroy_erase_improve

wow
thats a nice flush
beautiful zoomers

maybe the cake on the right has the correct moisture content, but the one on the left is too dry. making it seem like the one on the right is "soggy"

hmm, whenever i've dunked i have noticed that some are taking in more water than others but this is the first one that has felt like this, i've just been dunking each cake for 24 hours.
i guess i should feel them after 24 hours and if they aren't squishy i should give them another 12? or so?
i think i've read that 48 is too long.
thanks again!

[insight]

My last set of cakes were being dunked to be placed for third flush. When they came out and I was rinsing them, they almost fell apart. Its like they werent strong and tight anymore.

[reverend trips]

Originally Posted by insight

My last set of cakes were being dunked to be placed for third flush. When they came out and I was rinsing them, they almost fell apart. Its like they werent strong and tight anymore.

ya, this one felt like with like it could come apart too.
did you get your best flush off of those cakes?

[insight]

I cant say the best, but def better than normal

[destroy_erase_improve]

Originally Posted by reverend trips

hmm, whenever i've dunked i have noticed that some are taking in more water than others but this is the first one that has felt like this, i've just been dunking each cake for 24 hours.
i guess i should feel them after 24 hours and if they aren't squishy i should give them another 12? or so?
i think i've read that 48 is too long.
thanks again!

my friend thinks that 24 hours is plenty
its just a small cake
and although shes heard of 40 hour dunks, she thinks its probably OPTIMAL to shoot for a 12-24 hour dunk

[cutty]

Sounds like the same thing I recently had happen to me with the soggy and very heavy feeling cake.I just crumbled the cake and cased it 4 days ago...Maybe an option for you.

Nice flush off that small cake man.

[reverend trips]

Originally Posted by cutty

Sounds like the same thing I recently had happen to me with the soggy and very heavy feeling cake.I just crumbled the cake and cased it 4 days ago...Maybe an option for you.

Nice flush off that small cake man.

that is a good idea, and i've seen pics of some of your casings and would like to try it.
is it 50/50 peat/verm?
i've read that you have to add lime to it too, but i'm not sure about how much.

cheers!

[cutty]

Originally Posted by reverend trips

that is a good idea, and i've seen pics of some of your casings and would like to try it.
is it 50/50 peat/verm?
i've read that you have to add lime to it too, but i'm not sure about how much.

cheers!

Yes 50/50 peat/verm bro, I wet it to field capacity,and sterilize it for 45 minutes at 15 p.s.i. Most people say pasturization is better but I find steril works better for me.,Just a pinch of lime is all ya need,I just sprinke it on top of the casing.Theres no garantee this will work for that one specific cake though.

Good Luck bro.

[Raptor]

My friend dunked 4 cakes several nights ago, they went in fine, came out fine. He dunked another 2 the night before last and checked them out last night. They looked fine going in, all white except for some lightish brown "piss spots" as im told. However last night, one cake had what looked to be a light greenish spot, possibly blueish. I checked it out and rolled the jar around, it had a larger patch of this same color. It was very light (as if the color was a little bit under the top layer).
So my question is what could this be? I've recently read how cakes turn blue after dunking sometimes. And that green is only a color produced by trich spores. And since this occured during a 24 hr. refrigerated dunk, I don't think it's possible to be anything "bad" growing right? Also this cake is now sitting refrigerated (not in water) waiting, will this be fine for it assuming the cake is alright and is transplanted later tonight.

[~Hippie3]

yep, you sound ok

[destroy_erase_improve]

probably just the blueing
my friend has seen cakes that looked like they came out of a warzone after an overnight dunk
lol dont worry
they recover just fine

[Raptor]

he says excellent

Yea, straw logs do the same thing.

[Dank Side Of The Shroom]

Ive heard diffrent people say to use dung in cakes but i cant seem to find any teks on it can someone point me in the right direction. thanks

[tripinstein]

search for waylitjim's Pan Cyan tek. It can be used for either Pans or Cubes.

[theshadow7478]

I saw it once and it sounded good. I saw a pic where someone had their cakes sitting directly in moistened vermiculite. Do you all think this is a good idea? It sounded good to me, but but I only have a medium-low level of experience.

[spacecake]

It's called a double end casing !
Most people here are using this tek with cakes....
It's will add more moisture to your cakes...

[spacecowboy]

Originally Posted by theshadow7478

I saw it once and it sounded good. I saw a pic where someone had their cakes sitting directly in moistened vermiculite. Do you all think this is a good idea? It sounded good to me, but but I only have a medium-low level of experience.

Do you have a link to the pic?

Here is a link for more info on what sounds to be double-ended casing tek:

http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/2982.html

As for having wet vermiculite in the bottom of your grow chamber with cakes sitting on it, I would not reccomend it (very messy and open for contamination), better to use perilit in the bottom of the chamber and double-end case your cakes in some type of tray like the jar lid or small potting tray.

[theshadow7478]

my cakes are double end cased. I mean the cakes just sit in vermiculite instead of on their lids. Have a bed of moist vermiculite on the bottom of the terrainium and sit your cakes in that.

[perrch01]

Use perlite in your grow chamber instead of verm, keeps humidity higher IME

[theshadow7478]

I have a humidifier running there keeping the humidity fine. I am not talking about that. I am talking about a better double end casing. My dec is just verm on top and bottom of cake. The bottom comes from the verm u put on the top of the jar during colonization. The pic I saw had the cake sitting in a layer of verm.

[spacecowboy]

Originally Posted by theshadow7478

I mean the cakes just sit in vermiculite instead of on their lids.

No problem, should get a great first and second flush. Wheather or not you should clean your cakes/dunk between flushes I can't say, never grown them like this before, but I have seen pictures with spectacular flushes done this way.

[theshadow7478]

I always dunk between flushes. Dunking is great!

[Dank Side Of The Shroom]

my setup. i got alot of bigger tubs but always put 5 in a lil tub full of verm in the FC. maybe 10 in some stack 2 cakes on top eachother with verm inbetween. mixed the verm with water and h202 tell its wet like its going to go into the PC for cakes. sometimes i sterilze it like jars but never really get contams here.

[theshadow7478]

yup thats the pic I saw. so water and peroxide the wet the verm and just let them sit in that. ok got it thanks. Kinda like a rez at the base.

[Dank Side Of The Shroom]

thats about right. than there is lots of water for are fungi friends to drink.

[spacecowboy]

Originally Posted by theshadow7478

I am not talking about that. I am talking about a better double end casing.

Originally Posted by www.fanaticus.com

secret of the pf tek - 7cakes.jpg explained

This photo was sent to PF a few years ago and it was posted at the PF web site. It has also appeared at other web sites on the web. The sender was anonymous but I did know that the person used an ultrasonic humidifier with the straight PF TEK. This is an outstanding fruiting and I have never seen it bested. I have only seen this kind of fruiting at PF in large growing chambers with electric powered humidifiers in use.

Just recently I was notified about drinking straws being in the cakes. I looked harder, and there they were - drinking straws inserted into the cakes. (You can see one near the upper left coming out of a cake in the back) This is a TEK that has been going around the web for years, and even a good friend of mine said he did it and got great fruitings. I thought, great, but basically ignored it. What is done here, is that after the cake is birthed, an electric power drill is used and a clean hole is drilled into the cake in which the straw is inserted. And then during growth, water is injected into the straws which feeds into the cake, rehydrating it. That is why that fruiting is as good as it gets - casing or not, and only because of the pf substrates fruiting power and the growers water replenishment teks (humidifier and straws).

The number one element of any shroom fruiting is water availability. When the pf cake is birthed, the first thing that really starts to happen is moisture loss. That is because of the nature of vermiculite. Also, the fungi transpires plenty of water. So with two sources of water loss, evaporation and transpiration, cakes dry out. This reduces fruiting possibilites as it progresses.

So the answer is a way to input moisture to keep the cake fully LOADED with water as it gives off the water. it is clearly a kind of cycle - water in - water out - as the cake lives. It is apparant that many people are doing this various ways. Like--- burying the cakes in potting type soil mixtures. What this does is rehydrate the cake. Any type of moist soil like substance that can give off water can be used like this. It is a water feeding system. And that is exactly what the PF double ended cake casing tek is all about.
________________________________________
Here is a quote from the famous old cubensis growing book - "Psilocybin Magic Mushroom Growers Guide" by O.T.OSS & O.N. Oeric: page 49 - casing
A variety of types of casing soils have been found to effectively promote fruiting. We have found the following mixture to be one of the best:

7.5 liters peat moss
3.5 liters fine vermiculite
4 liters washed fine sand
2 liters calcium carbonate (finely crushed oyster shell)

Powdered oyster shell is sold as a feed supplement by many feed companies. We have also found that a mixture of one part Mica-peat (50/50 vermiculite-peatmoss mixture) to one part potting soil will work, and even unadulterated rich garden loam has been found suitable, though its unsterile condition makes contamination a possibility.

There is room for further experimentation with other types of casing mixtures: one might try casing with finely granulated horse-dung or cow-dung, or a mixture of horse or cow dung and finely chopped wheat-straw. Casing with leaf-mold mulch might also effectively promote fruiting, and in fact might encourage the fruiting of smaller and more delicate species of psilocybe that do not seem able to fruit when the mixture given above is used. The object is to find a casing soil that is porous enough to allow air to reach the mycelium, and that at the same time is light enough to allow the young mushrooms to penetrate easily through the surface. Sterilization of casing soil is usually recommended but we found it unnecessary when relatively sterile commercially bagged materials were used.
________________________________________
This is the important sentence and idea of the Oss and Oeric info: "The object is to find a casing soil that is porous enough to allow air to reach the mycelium, and that at the same time is light enough to allow the young mushrooms to penetrate easily through the surface". And the purpose of it is to "effectively promote fruiting".

What does "effectively promote fruiting" mean or why does it happen? What is it about the casing procedures that "effectively promote fruiting"? What PF has found is it is not the casing the promotes fruiting, but the substrate. That is where the fruiting power is. The casing is a water input system. It allows the cake to take in water as it is outputed and replace the moisture that was lost, providing the cakes with plenty of water that encourages the fruiting.

The SECOND important factor to be reckoned with is the shroom races gestation period. The TC has a real slow poke of a gestation period. The reason the pf double ended cake casing tek with plain vermiculite works for that one, is just that the cake is kept fully "LOADED" with water while old slow poke decides to come out.

casing soils (peat verm ect)
wet vermiculite
wet perlite
intense humidification
Drinking straw teks

All these teks accomplish the same end - reloading the cake with moisture as it waits for the spore race to complete its gestation. And then when the shrooms begin to fruit, the fully water loaded cake can deliver the shrooms number one need - water. Water recharging is the purpose of all of these teks, and they accomplish more or less the same thing.

Psylocybe Fanaticus
January 16 2000

[spacecowboy]

From THE INNER RESERVOIR TEK web page.

[~Hippie3]

a pity the inner reservoir is so labor/time intensive,
a quick and easy template*** for IR cakes
would be a hit.


[***= "A pattern or gauge, such as a thin metal plate with a cut pattern, used as a guide in making something accurately, as in woodworking or the carving of architectural profiles"]

[hogwild]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

a pity the inner reservoir is so labor/time intensive,
a quick and easy template*** for IR cakes
would be a hit.


[***= "A pattern or gauge, such as a thin metal plate with a cut pattern, used as a guide in making something accurately, as in woodworking or the carving of architectural profiles"]

Yup, if inner rez were easier and faster id do it