outside herb grow

[siam_jim]

afoaf got some g13 seeds purple and lavender and it's now about 3 inches high. he has them outside in his garden. he has never done outside grow so would like to get some opinions, first the area will give him tropical sunshine for 13hours a day.

he also wants to condition the soil with mushroom compost and mulch since the soil is mostly clay and sand. wonder would this be a good idea?

and is a bit confuse on the fertilizer req for veg phase. he thinks the most difficult part is to get them to flower as daylight difference from summer to fall is only an hour. can he subsitude another tech such as covering them?
peace
siam

[Jacsprat]

I think you gotta problem there.

G13 is more suited for 30 deg. north or south of the equator.

It sounds like your near the equator and you'll need to add light while in the vegation stage atleast
14 1/2 to 15 hours all together. mabie a street light may help.

However, your probly ok for the flowering stage.


Try a Haze strain or a mexican sativa for areas near the equator

Good Luck!

[python]

get those in the ground or a bigger container soon.......

[Jacsprat]

I would like to point out if your FOAF is growing in

thailand he/she might want to rethink that because of
the harsh pusnishments that are crazy.

Heard a roomer the police there can stop people and do an onsite piss test.

Very scary

[siam_jim]

man thats a bummer on that hours needed tho. he will transfer it to a larger pot soon.
yeah th laws are kinda rough but not too bad for smokes usually is just a fine or the cops takes it and sell it themself, and yeah they do random piss test mostly at night clubs. no problem as the friend looks like a respectful old teacher. and his home is located in the country and the grow is stealthy

I'd agree with getting them to larger pots or in the ground soon. They'll want to stretch and grow Beautifully I'm sure!

[Hippie3]

you won't need to add extra hours of light,
sunlight's very intense at your latitude
might take it awhile to ripen
but it'll get big

[siam_jim]

ok he had move them to a bigger pot and it's been a week now. one thing i had notice is the leaves are a bit light colored is this normal for g13s? if is not what is nutes requirements at this stage. he also has some dried steer manure..can that be added?

also after a while can he just move the pots to a less sunny location to have it flower?

peace
siam

[Hippie3]

use the manure to make a 'tea' and you can water/feed the plants at one time.

proly need plenty of nitrogen now to sustain growth,
new growth is often a lighter green until it ages a bit.
you want deep pots as canna sends its taproot straight down,
shallow pots yield more males,
deeper pots = more females

shade won't help flowering,
you'd need total darkness [blackout cloth] to really effect it.

[siam_jim]

thanks, looks like going to have to get him some deeper pots. 5 gal paint bucket would work i assume? would it hurt to add some lime?
peace
siam

[Hippie3]

yep

[Jacsprat]

Anythang less than 12 hours of light is going to cause flowering to start

ie. 12/12

and around 15 hours of light to keep it in the veg stage.

I believe your plants are going to think its late fall
and begin to flower

[Jacsprat]

This might help,

March 2006
Bangkok, Thailand
SundayMondayTuesdayWednesdayThursdayFridaySaturday ***1
Sun Rise: 6:32am
Sun Set: 6:24pm
2
Sun Rise: 6:31am
Sun Set: 6:24pm
3
Sun Rise: 6:31am
Sun Set: 6:25pm
4
Sun Rise: 6:30am
Sun Set: 6:25pm
5
Sun Rise: 6:29am
Sun Set: 6:25pm
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Sun Rise: 6:29am
Sun Set: 6:25pm
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Sun Rise: 6:28am
Sun Set: 6:25pm
8
Sun Rise: 6:28am
Sun Set: 6:25pm
9
Sun Rise: 6:27am
Sun Set: 6:25pm
10
Sun Rise: 6:26am
Sun Set: 6:25pm
11
Sun Rise: 6:26am
Sun Set: 6:26pm
12
Sun Rise: 6:25am
Sun Set: 6:26pm
13
Sun Rise: 6:25am
Sun Set: 6:26pm
14
Sun Rise: 6:24am
Sun Set: 6:26pm
15
Sun Rise: 6:23am
Sun Set: 6:26pm
16
Sun Rise: 6:23am
Sun Set: 6:26pm
17
Sun Rise: 6:22am
Sun Set: 6:26pm
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Sun Rise: 6:21am
Sun Set: 6:26pm
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Sun Rise: 6:21am
Sun Set: 6:26pm
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Sun Rise: 6:20am
Sun Set: 6:26pm
21
Sun Rise: 6:19am
Sun Set: 6:26pm
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Sun Rise: 6:19am
Sun Set: 6:26pm
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Sun Rise: 6:18am
Sun Set: 6:27pm
24
Sun Rise: 6:17am
Sun Set: 6:27pm
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Sun Rise: 6:17am
Sun Set: 6:27pm
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Sun Rise: 6:16am
Sun Set: 6:27pm
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Sun Rise: 6:15am
Sun Set: 6:27pm
28
Sun Rise: 6:15am
Sun Set: 6:27pm
29
Sun Rise: 6:14am
Sun Set: 6:27pm
30
Sun Rise: 6:13am
Sun Set: 6:27pm
31
Sun Rise: 6:13am
Sun Set: 6:27pm
*
Standard/Winter Time for entire month.
Courtesy of www.sunrisesunset.com
Address bugs, comments and questions to this page.
All information presented here is believed correct, but is not guaranteed.

[Hippie3]

Originally Posted by Jacsprat

Anythang less than 12 hours of light is going to cause flowering to start
ie. 12/12
and around 15 hours of light to keep it in the veg stage.
I believe your plants are going to think its late fall
and begin to flower

there will never be much less/more than 12 hours light/dark near the equador
cannabis has grown in that latitude for many centuries.
one does not need 15 hours of light a day to prevent flowering.
it's the length of darkness increasing that triggers flowering,
which is quite minor at the equador.
his problem won't be premie flowers,
more the reverse.
it will be slow to ripen as the nights remain a constant length year round.

[siam_jim]

this is getting very interesting, my locating is true about the duration of day and night. i wonder if i can build a black box to cover the plants every afternoon so it will keep dark longer.
if i want to do an inside grow..it would be better, but i can't find the lights, however they do sell something that looks like street lights! hummm so much problems trying to get something good going.
peace
siam

[Hippie3]

you want a mostly/pure sativa in your latitude

[siam_jim]

can you please give me a link to how this sativa looks like and waht it is?
peace
siam

[Hippie3]

sativas would be common in your area, the native varieties.
two basic types of cannabis-
sativa tall, narrow leaves, often 7-9 blades
&
indica, short, fatter leaves, often 5 blades

[siam_jim]

wow are they canna? i was just offered swazi and lebanon strains. does anyone have pictures to show me of this plant? i am very curious,
thanks
siam

[Hippie3]

yes, still talking about cannabis.
there aren't too many obvious differences in appearance
and the vast majority of
commercial starins are blends of sativa/indica.
your swazi likely is heavy sativa crossed
with some indica to add weight, bud density, speed.

[Jacsprat]

I think he's growing G 13 and a lavender mix....

It is true cannabis has grown in that area for thousands of years

However they are acclamated to the equator.


G 13 and lavender are mainly indica which is what the pics look like to me.

My opinoun is those strains I.E. mostly indica are best suited for 30 deg. north or south of the equator

He would do best with a thai , mexican , haze strain

JacSprat

[Hippie3]

indicas can be grown ok near the equator,
the problem is trying to grow sativas too far north,
as first frost comes before they fully ripen.

[Jacsprat]

check this out


http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabi..._images4.shtml

[siam_jim]

damn...looks like he will need to do this stuff indoors...what type of light would you all suggest?
peace
siam
good i had time to check out my hardware shop. they have sodium OR mercury OR metal halide...all are 250watts 12"+- tubes used for square flood light fixtures...now which one and how many?

[golly]

Maybe u could vedgetate em indoors -18hrs under metal halide ,then move em out to flower B4 they get too big....Being as metal halide has ultra violet in its spectrum -it may not be too much of a shock going into sunshine....

[Hippie3]

why on earth grow indoor when sunshine is free ?
i know 100% certain that indicas grow just fine
where you are, sativas too.
you're in one of the places where some of the best weed ever grown
comes from ...

[siam_jim]

yeah that is true hip, however how much more time i'm i looking at before i get flowering? with indoor light i can force them in 8 weeks?? but for outdoor in my region i see from the time chart from jacsprat that i won't see anything till mid june-july! this also bring me to asking about hps lights and metal halide..which is better and why?
peace
siam

[anticheffy]

MH has a bluer spectrum and promotes great growth where as HPS is more yellow, which the flowers love..

[MurCurY]

actually....we're covering this in class right now.

Mh lights are great for growing anything. Yes it's higher in blue which promotes chlorophyll growth and puts on leaf...you'de be using a NPK with a higher N then P and K. for flowering...you can still use the MH..buds will be denser but not as large/fluffy. If you used a HPS durign flowering...you'd get bigger fluffier buds but not as dense. As far as flowering.
Cannabis has a critical daylength of approx 12 hours. This means as days start getting shorter and get just beyond 12 hours it will trigger flowering. You need complete darkenss and any inturption of light during the dark period will revert it back to "day" mode requiring a full 12 hr's of dark to start over.

[Hippie3]

actually folks keep getting that bass-ackwards.
the light period is not the determinant,
the dark period is.

during darkness
cannabis plants secrete a certain hormone,
which is cumulative but is destroyed by exposure to bright light.
so
if the dark cycle reaches a certain length,
the hormone level reaches a critical threshold and
flowering is triggered.
however this does not occur until the seedlings reach a certain age,
which prevents flowering in early spring when nights are still long.

[MurCurY]

yes hip...it's not a hormone. It's phytochrome red and far red. canna is a "short day" plant in the agricultural term...or botanically it's a "long night" plant.

[suckerfree]

I use both MH and HPS during flowering.

MH uses more of the light spectrum focusing on the blues , HPS uses less of the light spectrum and focuses on red. using the same amount of wattage, an HPS will give more lumens than a MH. the son agro operate on the hps red spectrum, but have some blue spectrum added.

[Hippie3]

Originally Posted by MurCurY

..it's not a hormone..

it fits the definition of hormone
see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hormone

[cap]

would you guys quit calling our favorite babe,Mary Jane, 'canna' ??? :P J/K

MurCury: 'canna' , when speaking in terms of binomial nomenclature,is referring to a (gorgeous) species of ornamental flower

green thumbs to all

[Jacsprat]

I "Believe" on his current day light hours.

The plant will soon go into flowering and prob won't get much over 2 1/2 feet tall.

JacSprat

[Hippie3]

i 'believe' that is incorrect.


edit addenda; ps-
seeds would not.
clones could be 'forced' to flower on his schedule
but seedlings would in fact grow normally.

[Jacsprat]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

i 'believe' that is incorrect.

care to put money on that assumption?

[Hippie3]

don't be ridiculous.
it's no mere assumption either.

[cap]

it's easy to find High Intensity security lights in asia,
siam jim: please take a picture of the 'street light' you see at store.
we will tell you if this is right for growing indoors.

My suggestion to you, siam jim, is to make friends with some local gardeners, start growing vegetables, and fruits outside. Once you get the hang of things, you will be able to grow any plant on god's green earth, because you have familiarized yourself with the climate.

HIPPIE3 IS CORRECT:

siam, you have the ultimate conditions outdoor for growing cannabis.
please try a new strain, OR, use some tube flourescent light bulbs and veg. them indoors under a 24 hours of light, never shut it off....once they are mature enough to clone, take the clones, root them indoors, and then transplant these outside where there will be a dark period. the plants WILL begin to flower. even if not 12/12 and just 13/11

[cap]

just thought of something, it may be relavent...

currently working with Kona Gold , a thai and columbian gold hybrid circa 1980 (Orig. pedigree arguable) and trying to dial-in it's optimum photoperiod.

a buddy grows tons of South east Asian landrace varieties. i believe his PREFFERED Photoperiod is 14/10, 14 hours on, 10 hours off..

CURIOUS.

Your photoperiod is about 12/12 now...wouldn't this mean your season is almost over? .....................arghhhhhh

i plan to try this 14/10 next run and compare results to 12/12..

in the meantime, i will go roam the net for the answer to my own question, then report back...

[Hippie3]

see, he's [your buddy] going for very large plants, that's my guess.
i know one can flower at 13/11 from my own tests
and if one stacked the deck
by moving clones from 24/0 as you mention
you can trigger flowering even at 14/10.
said flowering cycle would be prolonged and slow,
as if fall was lingering forever,
allowing the plant to put on much more weight
before it finally ripens enough to harvest.
we're talking plants ~14+ feet tall.

ps-
see our friend siam jim is pretty close to the equator.
depending on which end he's at
it could be as little as 6 degrees north
or as much as 20 deg. north.
'average' is considered = 15*N for the country as a whole.
at 6*N there is no winter, it's summer year-round.
you get wet-dry seasons instead.

[cap]

[siam_jim]

gee..14' is too obvious..he was thinking 2 feet at most. Ok if he leaves it in the natural sunlight as now and keep it trimmed. How long is he looking at before flowering.
Peace
siam

[cap]

how many days are the plants from seed?

[Jacsprat]

although plants grown from seed have an inturnal time clock, his current day lite night hours are almost even .i.e 12/12.

Hip says 13/11 is enought to force flowering.
this is true. my test , with my strain have shown
flowering to start at 14 1/2 daylite 9 1/2 dark

based on my sun rise sun set chart , Thailand is
close to 11 1/2 day and 12 1/2 dark which is
less than 13/11.

So based on hips own test your plant should start to flower soon.

when plants are started from seed in early spring
the daylite hours are the same as in the fall.
buy the enturnal clock tells the plant not to confuse
this with fall.

However, this clock usually last about a month.
if the day lite isn't getting longer then flowering
usually starts soon.

So I wouldn't be surprised if you stgart to see lil flowers starting in the next month.

[Jacsprat]

check this out.

*Cannabis Culture Magazine Search CC | Subscribe to CC
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backissues -> CC37 -> Ganja gardens
by Pete Brady (25 Oct, 2002) Growing in Jamaica is difficult and dangerous, but perseverance pays with potent pot.
Jamaican ganja farmers have a wide variety of terrain and conditions to work with. Outdoor pot growers in other parts of the world can learn from techniques used by their colleagues on this ganjafied Caribbean island.
In the eastern section of Jamaica are the Blue Mountains, famous for Blue Mountain coffee, which rise as much as 7400 feet above sea level. Some parts of this mountainous region receive 200 inches of rain a year; temperature and humidity are moderated by rain and wind.
In lowland areas, plateaus and coastal regions, temperatures are higher and rainfall amounts are far lower, with most rainfall coming in May, June, October and November.
Jamaican ganja farmers grow almost exclusively outdoors. Poverty and lack of infrastructure on the predominantly rural island prevent growers from having enough money or secure indoor space to set up artificial lights.
Drought doubt
All ganja farmers I spoke to said the island was suffering from a long-term drought. Most cultivators rely on natural rainfall and catchments to irrigate their crops; public water supplies are unreliable or unavailable in many remote areas.
The water situation forces some growers to plant near streams, springs or in swampy areas. Others buy water tanks and pay exorbitant fees for trucked-in H2O.
Some growers, especially those in undeveloped or coastal areas, complain that groundwater is polluted, a vector for disease, or brackish. Minerals and salts in brackish water kill or stunt crops. Bacteria, agricultural run-off, industrial oils, mining wastes, and other pollution harms plants, or renders buds unfit for human consumption.
Soil conditions vary widely. Growers in high-rainfall upper elevation regions usually work with rich, loamy, well-aerated soil that is free of clay and sand and is balanced at an appropriate pH (in the 5.7 to 6.8 range), so plants can easily absorb major nutrients like nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium along with micronutrients like magnesium and zinc.
Other regions of Jamaica have less ideal soil conditions. Limestone shelves, sand, rocks, and gravel underlie a thin layer of nutrient-deficient soil in some areas; the resulting alkalinity slows growth by preventing efficient uptake of the already insufficient nutrient profile. Growers augment such soil with bat guano, fish entrails, manure, compost and urine. They also add gypsum, which counters excess alkalinity.
Jamaican ganja hanging out to dry.Cow pow
Site selection and preparation are complicated by security and labor concerns. Ganja is grown primarily in "the bush," where private property rights are rarely delineated. People and livestock use traditional bush trails that transect ganja fields. Rip-offs and snitching have become increasingly common, as retail ganja prices have risen from $5 US an ounce 20 years ago to $40 an ounce today.
Jamaicans aren't big consumers of red meat, so cows are ubiquitous and problematic. Several growers showed me trampled fences and munched-on marijuana fields. They claimed that cows eat cannabis, especially tall, leafy cannabis just before it is ready to flower.
"Them bovines get high off ganja," a grower asserted, "and if you drink their milk, you get high."
To counteract cows and thieves, many growers live in their fields. They stand guard with small but vicious dogs, as well as the ever-present machete.
There is a kind of frontier justice in the Jamaican bush. Cattle and people caught stealing ganja are quietly dispatched with a swift stroke of the sharpened blade. Luckier human thieves retain their lives but are asked to provide their sisters or girlfriends for sexual services, or to pay unusually high prices for the ganja they stole.
Estranged strains
Almost all Jamaican cultivators grow plants from seed. Unfortunately, the genetics they use are often ill-suited for the island's semi-equatorial photoperiod, which consists of roughly equal amounts of day and night.
Decades ago, Jamaicans were primarily growing tropical varieties accustomed to twelve hour days. Many of these were imports of famous plant types, such as Colombian Gold, Oaxacan, Panama Red, and a few African varieties. I photographed several buds that were gold and lanky; the grower admitted that he got the original seeds when he smuggled Colombian marijuana in the 1970's.
According to long-time growers, Jamaicans who emigrated to Europe and the USA returned to the island with seeds from Holland and North America, beginning in the late 1970's. And even though I assayed approximately twelve distinctly different types of cannabis during my recent Jamaica forays, every grower I met identified his plants as one of the following: Skunk, Ice, Northern Lights, Purple, and Power Plant. None of these are indigenous breeds.
I later determined that most growers had no idea what types of seed they were actually using. Cultivators and retailers had learned to use names like "Skunk" as a marketing tool so ganja tourists would think they were smoking familiar varieties.
Nevertheless, the introduction of Northern genetics has negatively affected yield. Plants sprout, grow to be between one and three feet high, and then begin flowering. Some outdoor gardens, grown from seed, resemble sea of green clone gardens, with miniature flowering plants that never live up to the potential largesse afforded by strong outdoor sun and fresh air.
If Jamaicans want to increase their yield, as well as the potency of their product, they would do well to begin growing specialized strains like Neville's Haze and Marley's Collie, which can handle equatorial photoperiods, humidity and temperatures.
Several growers told me that tourists who bring quality seeds to the island, especially seeds appropriate for its climate and light cycles, would be exceedingly well compensated. The Jamaican mail system is rife with corruption. Growers who try to order seeds via mail sometimes find that they "disappear" in transit.
Left: Phat Bud. Top: Jamaican Purple. Bottom: outdoor sea of green.Flower power
Ganja farming is hard work. Most cultivators start by hand-clearing a patch of trees. Then they burn the stubble so that ashes enrich the soil and make it more tillable.
Marijuana growing is partially responsible for rapid deforestation of the island. Jamaica was almost totally forested 200 years ago, now it is only 30% forested. Every ganja patch I visited was cut into a forest clearing. Burnt stumps of large trees were evident.
After sun-obscuring vegetation is chopped down, farmers remove rocks and other debris from the soil. If they are in marginal soil areas, they carry in soil amendments, often building raised beds containing a growing medium that is far more nutritious than surrounding native soils.
In areas where water shortage is a problem, growers put paper towels, plastic, and other absorptive materials into planting holes. In some cases, they dig a hole, line it with plastic, then fill it with a mix containing rich soil and absorptive fillers like vermiculite and perlite.
Seeds are usually sprouted in peat pots. Germination rates are high, although molds, mildew and fungi infrequently attack seeds or seedlings.
If seeds survive sprouting and early childhood, they are usually safe until flowering, when a variety of boring caterpillars and budworms can arrive to destroy a grower's flowers. These pests are most attracted to fat buds.
Growers report that they walk through their fields, shaking plants to dislodge pests, or peering into buds for telltale signs of damage. Such damage usually consists of curled or darkened bud leaves, along with small holes in the white, orange, or purple hairs that are characteristic of well-developed female flowers. Bud eating pests often eat from the inside out, leaving behind a hollow bud or a damaged flower that can then be easily invaded by mold.
Ethical farmers remove pests by hand, but some growers use natural and chemical pesticides and herbicides on their crops. They sometimes use fertilizer solutions containing urine and fecal matter. Ganja consumers are advised to carefully smell and visually examine dried ganja to detect these contaminants, which can cause serious discomfort and illness.
Jamaican ganja: green gold.Sure cure
Ganja farmers in Jamaica can harvest two to four times a year, depending on variety grown. They do not as yet utilize advanced concealment, pruning, cloning, or rejuvenation techniques to increase yield, continuity, or security. They often harvest too early, when flowers are undeveloped, or too late, after resin glands have ambered and their stalks fallen.
Sophisticated curing and drying techniques are not well understood in Jamaica. Plants are often yanked out of the ground and hung whole in trees. In rainy areas, they are placed inside dark plastic bags or well-ventilated huts.
Due to humidity, it can take as long as three weeks for ganja to cure properly. In general, however, properly-grown outdoor Jamaican weed is among the tastiest you will find anywhere.
It is advisable to procure ganja within two weeks of curing, however. Most farmers and dealers do not store their crop in refrigerators; high temperatures and light rapidly break down cannabinoids into inferior constituents that create a narcotic, dulling effect rather than the soaring high that the island's best outdoor weed produces.
Brother dollar
The island's cultivators bitterly complain about US-sponsored helicopter and airplane surveillance, as well as snitches, who lead ground soldiers and police to their fields.
Growers say they are not often arrested during "chop and destroy" missions, because they have the opportunity to bribe cutters and their bosses to prevent legal problems.
One man, who stopped growing ganja five years ago after he was forced to kill a drunk islander who was "messing with" his half acre ganja field, said his 1993 ganja harvest was taken by Jamaican soldiers just as his crop of 200 plants was at its ripest.
"I say to them, 'Mon, look at what you do, stealing the food out of de children's mouths. This is your country, Mon. Who are you loyal for? Who is your brother?' One soldier, he take a dollar bill out of his pocket and hold it to me and say, 'Whoever give me this money, I be loyal. Money is my brother.'"

[Hippie3]

interesting article,
thx for posting it.
i suppose it's possible but i remain a skeptic.
but let us assume
that his strains do indeed have such a high % of indica genes
that it begins to flower too early.
well,
the solution is simple, effective and cheap.
all one would need to go is to
interrupt the dark cycle with a brief flash of bright light
until one was ready to allow flowering.
no big deal,
he could walk out with a flashlight and do it nightly if needed.
or rig up something on a timer, etc.

[cap]

Money is my brother.'"

money is the scurge of this planet.

[Hippie3]

hell, i think siam jim might be thrilled if his plants only got 3 feet tall then flowered, that's nice and stealthy.
never let your greed make the decisions.

[cap]

i wrote a really long reply to this thread and by the time i was done it logged me out somehow, so, i lost it.

anyway,

i agree hippie

ps- keep an eye out for an experiment using an indica, sativa, and 50/50 hybrid, started indoor, under 12/12 flourescents....will document