PEROXIDE AND BROWN RICE CLONING TEK

Hippie3 · 04-25-05, 10:43

from the DVD

PF PEROXIDE AND BROWN RICE CLONING TEK
by Professor Fanaticus

The original idea comes from Rush Wayne's cultivation manual "GROWING MUSHROOMS WITH PEROXIDE". The following is a simplification of the idea down to the smallest degree, using brown rice powder, peroxidated water dilutions and small jars.

MATERIALS

1. Small jars with lids
2. Brown rice powder
3. Regular store bought Hydrogen Peroxide (3%) antiseptic solution (usually in a brown bottle)
4. Dissection knife and long needle (exacto etc)
5. Living mushroom or fungus, or culture of fungus

As a preliminary, start reasonable clean, but the following is to be done in the open air, without sterile implements or containers.

Mix the peroxide antiseptic and water at a 20% ratio. Example - 2cc peroxide and 8cc water. Place an amount of brown rice powder into the jar and add some of the peroxidated water to get a slurry, or very wet condition. The diluted peroxidated water sterilizes the medium and the jar. For extra experiments, you should try more potent peroxide contents in the brown rice peroxide slurry medium (30% - 40% - 50%). It is so easy, it can't hurt to experiment and you can benefit from it.

Tear the shroom apart and with an exacto knife, excise a small fragment about the size of a match head. With a long needle, knock or scrape the shroom fragment off the exacto blade and place the fragment on the surface of the peroxidated brown rice slurry. If you are working with previously made plate or slurry cultures that have mold growing along with the pure white good fungi, follow this tek using a small fragment of the desired fungi excised out of the culture. If the culture grows back clean, that doesn't mean that it really is clean, because there will be contaminant spores in the mycelium (which is there anyway because of the open nature of this tek). When the culture is to be used PF style, when it is reslurried with fresh peroxide water, the contaminant mold spores and bacteria endospores will be killed while the growing fungi mycelium will survive to grow clean - PF style or any style you like.

Screw the lid tightly onto the peroxide slurry jar and put the jar in a warm place for growth. The culture can be opened and exposed for observation or experimentation without danger to the growing medium and culture.

Under magnification (10x), the fragment of mycelium appears to "melt". It also turns blue, as if it were killed. Within a few days, tiny white hair like tendrils (hyphae) will appear on the "melted blue" fungus. It will grow and fill the the culture jar.

To use the culture for further inoculations, add 20% peroxidated water to the culture, mix the brown rice and fungus, and with a syringe, draw up water and inoculate PF jars, with the standard PF spore syringe technique. This is done nonsterily also because the peroxidated water will kill contaminant spores. But flame sterilize the needle before injecting into the sterile PF substrate. Instead of flaming the needle, an even better way to sterilize the needle (outside of the needle) is to wipe the needle with a tissue soaked with rubbing alcohol. Let the needle briefly dry of the alcohol before injecting. Use the culture well before it grows in. That way, it is much easier to get a usable slurry for the syringe without clogging.

As an addition, try more potent peroxidated water ratios. For instance, a 50% ratio works also. That would be half peroxide antiseptic and half water. Increase peroxide content until the mycelium doesn't survive. Then back off the amount of peroxide and use a near death peroxide load for guaranteed clean results. But a 20% peroxide to water ratio seems to be perfect.

If you are working with previously made plate or slurry cultures that have mold or bacteria slime growing along with the pure white good fungi, follow this tek using a small fragment of the desired fungi excised out of the culture. Make sure you don't have any growing mold or bacteria in the good mycelium because the peroxide won't kill it (as it doesn't kill the good fungi). If the culture grows back clean, that doesn't mean that it really is clean, because there will be contaminant spores in the mycelium (which is there anyway because of the open nature of this tek). When the culture is to be used PF style, when it is reslurried with fresh peroxide water, the contaminant mold spores and bacteria endospores will be killed while the growing fungi mycelium will survive to grow clean - PF style or any style you like.

TEK PROBLEMS

The only problem is syringe needle clogging. As a remedy, do not allow the culture to fully grow in or get thick. Keeping the culture "thin", allows a good breakdown of the mycelial fragments for use in a syringe. At first, doing the tek can be messy, but learning is quick and easy. Finding and using needles as big as possible is important.

But another route is very possible and actually preferable. Using long glass bulb pipettes are very good to use, but here, one must customize and "tweak" the teks a bit (one must be careful when injecting PF style jars with the bigger pipetts and not to breach the top vermiculite contaminant barrier). Also, flaming the glass pipetts can sometimes break the glass. In this case, always sterilize the outside of the pipette with the rubbing alcohol. Bulb pipettes are actually better to use than needles and syringes because they don't have much problem with clogging as compared to needles and syringes with mycelial slurries. But if the Professor's tek is followed closely and the cultures are not allowed to grow in and get thick, the 18 gauge needles with 10cc syringes work OK.

PRINCIPLES OF THE PEROXIDE TEKS

Hydrogen Peroxide is a powerful antiseptic. The solution of Hydrogen Peroxide bought in a drug store is 3% Hydrogen Peroxide and 97% water. Even at this low concentration, and with further dilutions, the germ killing is potent. But that germ killing power only works for micro fungi spores and bacteria endospores. A micro-organism that has germinated into its secondary form (mycelium), is safe from the antiseptic power of diluted Hydrogen Peroxide. But the ungerminated spores, bacteria endospores, and microbes are all susceptible. If there is bacteria that is growing (germinated), it will not succumb to the peroxidated water (just as the fungi mycelium is not succumbing). Also, any mold that is growing will survive. A clean fragment of shroom flesh or mycelium from a mold contaminated culture has germs all over it, but only in the spore or endospore form. They won't germinate in the peroxidated medium and water or on the recovering mycelia.

The tek is like a tightrope act. The mycelium that is cultured in the peroxide enriched medium can survive and grow, but it is not clean. Any spores or bacteria that are "piggy-backing" on the mycelium and not in contact with the peroxidated medium can come to life if given the opportunity.

After the culture of mycelium grows, it can be rehydrated with more peroxidated water. The spores and bacteria endospores that are "piggy-backing" on the mycelium will die. The mycelium in its fully secondary form, will survive the new peroxidated solution, "cleaned".

BY PROFESSOR FANATICUS

altered_states · 04-25-05, 13:57

Just picked up some brown rice, 2 cases of WM half-pints, and a brand spankin' new coffee grinder.
It's been a few years since I last grew cakes.
Got the urge while jar shopping.

Definitely trying this TEK next time I clone.

Must the jars be sealed due to the unstable nature of the peroxide?

Could colonized Karo water with possible contamination be fully or partiallly substituted for water?

Can a clean liquid culture be used to noc up H2O2/BRF jars?
If so, should there be any change in the water/karo water/peroxide ratio,
assuming the karo:water concentration is 1tsp karo:100ml distilled water?

Thanks for this awesome cloning TEK...
So many possibilities.

Can't wait to try it!

04-25-05, 19:28

I found this in the old archives a while back and I grew 3 jars of contams. I did do it open air so I may try again in the glovebox this next time. I happened to have more success using karo water for cloning myself. Maybe I'll try it again for fun! Its great in theory to me but I just don't think its clean enough to be successful. I just wanted to add my $.02. Peace.

Hippie3 · 04-25-05, 19:39

one of those
untested teks folks post.

vrooota · 04-27-05, 07:05

I've never used that exact methodology, but I do know that me, sandman, and others have tried other various peroxide cloning teks. I'm pretty sure the consensus was that we all grew wet spot. This might work better as it has peroxide in a semisolid form almost like agar instead of liquid culture

Hippie3 · 04-27-05, 07:09

wonder if bleach might work better ?

vrooota · 04-27-05, 07:15

damn that was fast; ya know what I was thinking hip, is that the H202 prolly sterilises the medium and when you drop a chunk of myc in there it takes as long to recover from the knife and start growing onto peroxidated material as the h202 takes to break down, as opposed to liquid culture where it is inundated in the bubbly immediately and killed/stunted. As far as the bleach goes.....I've used shot glasses that have been sterilised with bleach and somewhat incompletely rinsed to put spores in syringes for quite a few innoculations. So far 100% germination 0% contamed and 0% endorsed by conventional scientific procedures

04-27-05, 12:05

Vroota, I've been doing something similar only with my syringes. After it is empty I suck up a very dilute solution of bleach water and let it sit for a day. Then I rinse with water maybe 4-5 times, fill with boiling water, pc to sterilize. Its been working for me. Maybe this is the answer to using small amounts of bleach. Really dilute solutions. Who knows, I too just put my clone tissue in h2o2 for about 5 seconds, then put in karo water. PF's way didn't do much but grow contams for me.

04-27-05, 17:02

i just did three jars last night, and one karo just in case. i did one 20%,30%,40%. i'll let everyone know how it goes.

04-27-05, 17:16

yeah, would just plain karo and peroxide/water be sterile?

viraljimmy · 04-29-05, 09:46

Brown rice powder = brown rice flour?

I'm guessing yes, just not sure.

04-29-05, 09:59

Jimmy, thats what I used, brf. Maybe powder is diff.? I assumed he meant brf. Hmmmm, great question.

viraljimmy · 04-29-05, 10:05

I'm going to try this.

My last cloning attempt (blender cloning)
made 30 jars of green.

alienprimate · 04-29-05, 10:35

If anyone gets this tek to work, let me know how you did it. My FOAF tried it a long time back and all he got out of the deal was a thick healthy mold growth. Some funky mold in fact that he's never seen before!!

04-29-05, 10:51

Yeah I got a growth contam I had never seen before too. I just don't think h2o2 is enough to make this work clean. Soaking the tissue in h2o2 before adding to the brf h202 slurry may help but it didn't work for me. I would like to know when someone has success with it too.

tribalpeople · 04-29-05, 11:44

im new to this form but im interrested in higher learning need input about flushing brc an amazons can any one educate me thank you

Lazlo · 04-29-05, 12:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by viraljimmy

Brown rice powder = brown rice flour?

I'm guessing yes, just not sure.

Yep.

altered_states · 04-29-05, 13:37

After I take the tissue out of the h2o2, I pick up the bottle and simply dump h2o2 all over it. (performed in glovebox)
My reasoning is that I suspect the tissue may contain surface contams that were picked up on its way out of the dunk.
This gives me a better, although not great, success rate.
I keep some fluorescent light diffuser grid on the bottom of my glovebox so
my work isn't sitting in the various liquids that I dump/spill in there.

Whenever I clone, I also use plain distilled water and/or karo liquid. (PC'd 20-30min)
These usually work out better.

hogwild · 05-05-06, 03:59

Foaf is thinking of giving this a try.... this is from the professor so i already assume its legit, has anyone tried this method with decent results. I guess you learn something new every day, apparently peroxide will kill off any un-germinated spores, however once the spores have germinated and taken on thier second form, mycelium, they are not succeptible to the peroxide. foaf is in the process of making several of these cultures as we speak. Anyone who has first hand experience with this please comment. Thanks a bunch.

The tek is below:
http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages...tml?1058569834

05-05-06, 08:39

I tried it with about 5 or 6 jars a while back. Didn't grow much but green. Doesn't mean it doesn't work, just didn't work for me.

Go with agar or proven lc teks for success imo. There are also folks who use peroxidated agar.

I may try experimenting with this again, though not anytime soon.

Hippie3 · 05-05-06, 08:47

i gotta agree with freaky,
my own attempts were dismal failures.

the_chosen_one · 05-05-06, 13:40

These albino clones where done using the peroxide tek by PF. I had some success with it but I'm one that likes consistency. My success rate was about 30% so I left this one behind eventually. Still more fine tuning may provide better results. When it works it is virtually invincible as these clones were grown in an uncovered petri left in a shoe box and exposed to open air on a regular basis. Never did try it using spores.

hogwild · 05-05-06, 14:09

well thanks for the input guys, i think im just going to start using agar pretty soon. It seems like agar is a better option than peroxide and brf. I think ill give this method a try anyways just to see if i can get any results. I will be purchasing mea in a bit so i better start reading up in the archives i guess.

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04-25-05, 10:43	#1 (permalink)
Hippie3 DUNG DEALER Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 43,266	PEROXIDE AND BROWN RICE CLONING TEK from the DVD PF PEROXIDE AND BROWN RICE CLONING TEK by Professor Fanaticus The original idea comes from Rush Wayne's cultivation manual "GROWING MUSHROOMS WITH PEROXIDE". The following is a simplification of the idea down to the smallest degree, using brown rice powder, peroxidated water dilutions and small jars. MATERIALS 1. Small jars with lids 2. Brown rice powder 3. Regular store bought Hydrogen Peroxide (3%) antiseptic solution (usually in a brown bottle) 4. Dissection knife and long needle (exacto etc) 5. Living mushroom or fungus, or culture of fungus As a preliminary, start reasonable clean, but the following is to be done in the open air, without sterile implements or containers. Mix the peroxide antiseptic and water at a 20% ratio. Example - 2cc peroxide and 8cc water. Place an amount of brown rice powder into the jar and add some of the peroxidated water to get a slurry, or very wet condition. The diluted peroxidated water sterilizes the medium and the jar. For extra experiments, you should try more potent peroxide contents in the brown rice peroxide slurry medium (30% - 40% - 50%). It is so easy, it can't hurt to experiment and you can benefit from it. Tear the shroom apart and with an exacto knife, excise a small fragment about the size of a match head. With a long needle, knock or scrape the shroom fragment off the exacto blade and place the fragment on the surface of the peroxidated brown rice slurry. If you are working with previously made plate or slurry cultures that have mold growing along with the pure white good fungi, follow this tek using a small fragment of the desired fungi excised out of the culture. If the culture grows back clean, that doesn't mean that it really is clean, because there will be contaminant spores in the mycelium (which is there anyway because of the open nature of this tek). When the culture is to be used PF style, when it is reslurried with fresh peroxide water, the contaminant mold spores and bacteria endospores will be killed while the growing fungi mycelium will survive to grow clean - PF style or any style you like. Screw the lid tightly onto the peroxide slurry jar and put the jar in a warm place for growth. The culture can be opened and exposed for observation or experimentation without danger to the growing medium and culture. Under magnification (10x), the fragment of mycelium appears to "melt". It also turns blue, as if it were killed. Within a few days, tiny white hair like tendrils (hyphae) will appear on the "melted blue" fungus. It will grow and fill the the culture jar. To use the culture for further inoculations, add 20% peroxidated water to the culture, mix the brown rice and fungus, and with a syringe, draw up water and inoculate PF jars, with the standard PF spore syringe technique. This is done nonsterily also because the peroxidated water will kill contaminant spores. But flame sterilize the needle before injecting into the sterile PF substrate. Instead of flaming the needle, an even better way to sterilize the needle (outside of the needle) is to wipe the needle with a tissue soaked with rubbing alcohol. Let the needle briefly dry of the alcohol before injecting. Use the culture well before it grows in. That way, it is much easier to get a usable slurry for the syringe without clogging. As an addition, try more potent peroxidated water ratios. For instance, a 50% ratio works also. That would be half peroxide antiseptic and half water. Increase peroxide content until the mycelium doesn't survive. Then back off the amount of peroxide and use a near death peroxide load for guaranteed clean results. But a 20% peroxide to water ratio seems to be perfect. If you are working with previously made plate or slurry cultures that have mold or bacteria slime growing along with the pure white good fungi, follow this tek using a small fragment of the desired fungi excised out of the culture. Make sure you don't have any growing mold or bacteria in the good mycelium because the peroxide won't kill it (as it doesn't kill the good fungi). If the culture grows back clean, that doesn't mean that it really is clean, because there will be contaminant spores in the mycelium (which is there anyway because of the open nature of this tek). When the culture is to be used PF style, when it is reslurried with fresh peroxide water, the contaminant mold spores and bacteria endospores will be killed while the growing fungi mycelium will survive to grow clean - PF style or any style you like. TEK PROBLEMS The only problem is syringe needle clogging. As a remedy, do not allow the culture to fully grow in or get thick. Keeping the culture "thin", allows a good breakdown of the mycelial fragments for use in a syringe. At first, doing the tek can be messy, but learning is quick and easy. Finding and using needles as big as possible is important. But another route is very possible and actually preferable. Using long glass bulb pipettes are very good to use, but here, one must customize and "tweak" the teks a bit (one must be careful when injecting PF style jars with the bigger pipetts and not to breach the top vermiculite contaminant barrier). Also, flaming the glass pipetts can sometimes break the glass. In this case, always sterilize the outside of the pipette with the rubbing alcohol. Bulb pipettes are actually better to use than needles and syringes because they don't have much problem with clogging as compared to needles and syringes with mycelial slurries. But if the Professor's tek is followed closely and the cultures are not allowed to grow in and get thick, the 18 gauge needles with 10cc syringes work OK. PRINCIPLES OF THE PEROXIDE TEKS Hydrogen Peroxide is a powerful antiseptic. The solution of Hydrogen Peroxide bought in a drug store is 3% Hydrogen Peroxide and 97% water. Even at this low concentration, and with further dilutions, the germ killing is potent. But that germ killing power only works for micro fungi spores and bacteria endospores. A micro-organism that has germinated into its secondary form (mycelium), is safe from the antiseptic power of diluted Hydrogen Peroxide. But the ungerminated spores, bacteria endospores, and microbes are all susceptible. If there is bacteria that is growing (germinated), it will not succumb to the peroxidated water (just as the fungi mycelium is not succumbing). Also, any mold that is growing will survive. A clean fragment of shroom flesh or mycelium from a mold contaminated culture has germs all over it, but only in the spore or endospore form. They won't germinate in the peroxidated medium and water or on the recovering mycelia. The tek is like a tightrope act. The mycelium that is cultured in the peroxide enriched medium can survive and grow, but it is not clean. Any spores or bacteria that are "piggy-backing" on the mycelium and not in contact with the peroxidated medium can come to life if given the opportunity. After the culture of mycelium grows, it can be rehydrated with more peroxidated water. The spores and bacteria endospores that are "piggy-backing" on the mycelium will die. The mycelium in its fully secondary form, will survive the new peroxidated solution, "cleaned". BY PROFESSOR FANATICUS __________________ visit dial-a-hippie .

04-25-05, 13:57	#2 (permalink)
altered_states Mycotopiate Join Date: Feb 1973 Posts: 408	Just picked up some brown rice, 2 cases of WM half-pints, and a brand spankin' new coffee grinder. It's been a few years since I last grew cakes. Got the urge while jar shopping. Definitely trying this TEK next time I clone. Must the jars be sealed due to the unstable nature of the peroxide? Could colonized Karo water with possible contamination be fully or partiallly substituted for water? Can a clean liquid culture be used to noc up H2O2/BRF jars? If so, should there be any change in the water/karo water/peroxide ratio, assuming the karo:water concentration is 1tsp karo:100ml distilled water? Thanks for this awesome cloning TEK... So many possibilities. Can't wait to try it! __________________ Please don't be sad if it was a straight mind you had We wouldn't have known you all these years

04-25-05, 19:39	#4 (permalink)
Hippie3 DUNG DEALER Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 43,266	one of those untested teks folks post. __________________ visit dial-a-hippie .

04-27-05, 07:05	#5 (permalink)
vrooota Mycotopiate Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 627	I've never used that exact methodology, but I do know that me, sandman, and others have tried other various peroxide cloning teks. I'm pretty sure the consensus was that we all grew wet spot. This might work better as it has peroxide in a semisolid form almost like agar instead of liquid culture __________________ I am what you see

04-25-05, 19:28	#3 (permalink)
~freakachino Guest Posts: n/a	I found this in the old archives a while back and I grew 3 jars of contams. I did do it open air so I may try again in the glovebox this next time. I happened to have more success using karo water for cloning myself. Maybe I'll try it again for fun! Its great in theory to me but I just don't think its clean enough to be successful. I just wanted to add my $.02. Peace.

04-27-05, 07:09	#6 (permalink)
Hippie3 DUNG DEALER Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 43,266	wonder if bleach might work better ? __________________ visit dial-a-hippie .

04-27-05, 07:15	#7 (permalink)
vrooota Mycotopiate Join Date: Jan 1970 Posts: 627	damn that was fast; ya know what I was thinking hip, is that the H202 prolly sterilises the medium and when you drop a chunk of myc in there it takes as long to recover from the knife and start growing onto peroxidated material as the h202 takes to break down, as opposed to liquid culture where it is inundated in the bubbly immediately and killed/stunted. As far as the bleach goes.....I've used shot glasses that have been sterilised with bleach and somewhat incompletely rinsed to put spores in syringes for quite a few innoculations. So far 100% germination 0% contamed and 0% endorsed by conventional scientific procedures __________________ I am what you see

04-27-05, 12:05	#8 (permalink)
~freakachino Guest Posts: n/a	Vroota, I've been doing something similar only with my syringes. After it is empty I suck up a very dilute solution of bleach water and let it sit for a day. Then I rinse with water maybe 4-5 times, fill with boiling water, pc to sterilize. Its been working for me. Maybe this is the answer to using small amounts of bleach. Really dilute solutions. Who knows, I too just put my clone tissue in h2o2 for about 5 seconds, then put in karo water. PF's way didn't do much but grow contams for me.

04-27-05, 17:02	#9 (permalink)
~infected_mush Guest Posts: n/a	i just did three jars last night, and one karo just in case. i did one 20%,30%,40%. i'll let everyone know how it goes.

04-27-05, 17:16	#10 (permalink)
~busst Guest Posts: n/a	yeah, would just plain karo and peroxide/water be sterile?

04-29-05, 09:46	#11 (permalink)
viraljimmy Mycotopiate Join Date: Jan 1973 Posts: 460	Brown rice powder = brown rice flour? I'm guessing yes, just not sure.

04-29-05, 09:59	#12 (permalink)
~freakachino Guest Posts: n/a	Jimmy, thats what I used, brf. Maybe powder is diff.? I assumed he meant brf. Hmmmm, great question.

04-29-05, 10:05	#13 (permalink)
viraljimmy Mycotopiate Join Date: Jan 1973 Posts: 460	I'm going to try this. My last cloning attempt (blender cloning) made 30 jars of green.

04-29-05, 10:35	#14 (permalink)
alienprimate Mycophiliac Join Date: Dec 1971 Posts: 25	If anyone gets this tek to work, let me know how you did it. My FOAF tried it a long time back and all he got out of the deal was a thick healthy mold growth. Some funky mold in fact that he's never seen before!!

04-29-05, 10:51	#15 (permalink)
~freakachino Guest Posts: n/a	Yeah I got a growth contam I had never seen before too. I just don't think h2o2 is enough to make this work clean. Soaking the tissue in h2o2 before adding to the brf h202 slurry may help but it didn't work for me. I would like to know when someone has success with it too.

04-29-05, 11:44	#16 (permalink)
tribalpeople Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1	learning to flush cakes im new to this form but im interrested in higher learning need input about flushing brc an amazons can any one educate me thank you

04-29-05, 13:37	#18 (permalink)
altered_states Mycotopiate Join Date: Feb 1973 Posts: 408	After I take the tissue out of the h2o2, I pick up the bottle and simply dump h2o2 all over it. (performed in glovebox) My reasoning is that I suspect the tissue may contain surface contams that were picked up on its way out of the dunk. This gives me a better, although not great, success rate. I keep some fluorescent light diffuser grid on the bottom of my glovebox so my work isn't sitting in the various liquids that I dump/spill in there. Whenever I clone, I also use plain distilled water and/or karo liquid. (PC'd 20-30min) These usually work out better. __________________ Please don't be sad if it was a straight mind you had We wouldn't have known you all these years

05-05-06, 03:59	#19 (permalink)
hogwild Mycotopiate Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,087	The professors peroxide slurry tek? Foaf is thinking of giving this a try.... this is from the professor so i already assume its legit, has anyone tried this method with decent results. I guess you learn something new every day, apparently peroxide will kill off any un-germinated spores, however once the spores have germinated and taken on thier second form, mycelium, they are not succeptible to the peroxide. foaf is in the process of making several of these cultures as we speak. Anyone who has first hand experience with this please comment. Thanks a bunch. The tek is below: http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages...tml?1058569834 __________________ Trouble ahead, trouble behind, And you know that notion just crossed my mind.

05-05-06, 08:39	#20 (permalink)
~freakachino Guest Posts: n/a	I tried it with about 5 or 6 jars a while back. Didn't grow much but green. Doesn't mean it doesn't work, just didn't work for me. Go with agar or proven lc teks for success imo. There are also folks who use peroxidated agar. I may try experimenting with this again, though not anytime soon.

05-05-06, 08:47	#21 (permalink)
Hippie3 DUNG DEALER Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 43,266	i gotta agree with freaky, my own attempts were dismal failures. __________________ visit dial-a-hippie .

05-05-06, 14:09	#23 (permalink)
hogwild Mycotopiate Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 1,087	well thanks for the input guys, i think im just going to start using agar pretty soon. It seems like agar is a better option than peroxide and brf. I think ill give this method a try anyways just to see if i can get any results. I will be purchasing mea in a bit so i better start reading up in the archives i guess. __________________ Trouble ahead, trouble behind, And you know that notion just crossed my mind.

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