PF Cakes with Peat (how I got the vermiculite monkey off my back).

[MNL]

The Netherlands is built upon giant timbers driven deep into the earth. This is needed because the whole place is a soppy, peaty, sandy mess. The dirt sold in supermarkets, 'potgrond', tends to be 100% black peat and peat litter. The stuff I used also had some nutrients. I was initially worried about these, but then I forgot about them until just now.

A shit load of lime was added, verm (50%) was added. It was wetted beyond field capacity, then nuked for some time.

I like it, but I used a clear container and shrooms are growing in the sides.

[MNL]

Strain is EQ - a print from spacecake.

[destroy_erase_improve]

it seems to be working out pretty good for you. eq is a really good strain btw imho. spacecake really hooked ya up.

a question i have is, do you find moisture to be a problem for you.
the reason im asking is that cakes prefer 100% humidity as opposed to casings which seem to enjoy a nice 80%-90%.

[MNL]

Nope, I did a 12inchx12 inch straw tray in there (cased),as well. Perhaps I shouldnt, but its the 'clean zone', know what I mean?

[MNL]

Fuck! I wrote this post once, but accidentally closed the browser.....This post is another in the spirit of my Wild Bird Seed Flour substitution, which can be found HERE .

I was making some cakes and I ran out of vermiculite. It can be difficult to find in the Netherlands. I didn't feel like taking a 10 Euro train ride to Amsterdam to buy a 5 euro bag of vermiculite.

When I realized I was low, I grabbed some 'potgrond' I had for casings (100% black peat with light nutrients). I sifted the peat through a kitchen colander, and moistened it a little. Microwaved the mix until it steamed and paranoia of a kitchen peat fire prevailed.

Added a bunch of lime.

I then used the peat/lime mix in a 2:1 peat/brown rice flour formula. I added water until it had the consistency of good substrate. I didn't add '1 water' because I had moistened the peat previously.

The mix was loaded into plastic cups with a pinch of vermiculite on the bottom, and a layer of vermiculite on the top. Steamed as usual.

The picture shows a Hawaiian multi-spore inoculation on three cups, (from left to right) 1. standard PF w/vermiculite, 2. 50/50 vermiculite/peat mix, and 3. 100% peat. All the jar types have growth.

[destroy_erase_improve]

i love threads like this
with side by side pictoral results and comparisons
tyvm for not being afraid to try new things and being too lazy to ride down and get more vermiculite
please keep us posted

Cool. Keep us posted how it works out.

quote:
"I didn't feel like taking a 10 Euro train ride to Amsterdam"
I doubt you're going to get much sympathy around here....lol.
RR

[MNL]

Originally Posted by Rodger

quote:
"I didn't feel like taking a 10 Euro train ride to Amsterdam"
I doubt you're going to get much sympathy around here....lol.
RR

It didnt used to be so bad, but now we cannot smoke on the train. It used to be (only a year ago, in fact) that there were smoking sections. Smoking sections mind you, NOT tobacco sections

still not getting much sympathy from me... you bastard...
i haven't seen a nug in over 2 months...

as far as the peat experiment goes.. good luck.. it's nice to see people trying new things... make sure to keep us posted
as far as the verm goes.. i got a huge 18 gallon tub full of it.. i'll trade ya 1/2 of it for some brownies...
LOST

[~Hippie3]

did you adjust for
the ph of the peat ?

[destroy_erase_improve]

i didnt even register the whole LIVING RIGHT NEAR AMSTERDAM comment.
lol
damn youuuuuuuu
your so lucky!

[cutty]

Originally Posted by Rodger

"I didn't feel like taking a 10 Euro train ride to Amsterdam"
I doubt you're going to get much sympathy around here....lol.
RR

I dont even smoke weed and I still got no sympathy for someone so lucky as yourself!!! Lucky bastid

Good luck with your grow this should be interesting,specially since I have huge bails of peat hanging around.

[MNL]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

did you adjust for
the ph of the peat ?

Yes, butt-loads of lime (A-Z Kalk with microorganisms).

[MNL]

UPDATE:On both multi-spore and clones, the peat cups are going much slower than the standard PF cups, the 50/50 is (surprise) somewhere in between.

The peat is finer than vermicultie, so I think I will make some new cakes with 2:1.5 peat/BRF mix.

I am also going to make a few cakes with peat/BRF/toilet paper today.

[MNL]

Peat+lime, loaded on top of normal verm/rice PF substrate.

[destroy_erase_improve]

cool experiments you have going on
that looks like a TON of lime. what ratio did you use?
lol thats hell of a peat contambarrier :P
its almost half the one cup

[MNL]

My ratio for lime to peat is a butt-load of lime to the amount of peat that I plan to use....

That was made with the rest of my vermiculite...not enough for 2 cups, too much for one....so I just did what I could.

[~Hippie3]

now this one
i know
will NOT work
trich will eat right thru peat

[MNL]

could you elaborate a little? I though if peat is non-nut, then nothing grows in it?

[~Hippie3]

peat's not quite that non-nutritious,
it is decayed plant material, afterall.
you'd do better with a synthetic fiber
like tyvek or polyfil
or verm which is inert since it's a mineral

[MNL]

geo-rocks (gro-rocks)?

[~Hippie3]

well, there's too much space between
such large particles,
too much unfiltered air getting in
sand would be better

[MNL]

time to get on the train and go to amsterdam....

[MNL]

UPDATE:
Same order: Verm, 50/50, peat.

Hawaiian multi-spore.
Mexican clone.

[~Hippie3]

hrmph,
doesn't look too good for pete...

[destroy_erase_improve]

i wonder why the peat itself doesnt fair well
is it because of low nutes? verm doesnt have any nutes at all and look how fast its flying. maybe consistancy? maybe myc likes the "taste" of verm more.

[MNL]

I think it is the lightness of the substrate. Also, I think a 50/50 rice/peat mix would be better because the peat "packs in" around the rice in a way verm does not.

[MNL]

Verm, 50/50, Peat (Hawaiian multi-spore)

Verm - all cups done or almost done (tiny patches)
50/50 - nearly done, strips and sections uncolonized.
Peat - Argh! Only about half way there.

[MNL]

All almost finished. Lost one 50/50 and one peat to contam (see pic).
3 of Hawaiian Multispore.
2 (verm & peat only) of mexican clone.

[MNL]

one cake is done, the other is a little slower. Both EQ clone.

hey hey hey now...... did u only do 2 cups? if u did alot, and none contammed, this looks pretty nice

those 99cent plastic cups stood up to steaming? damn, i think i may do thsoe from now on, i can fit more of those in a pot than my regular containers, damn!

did you just pack the brf/verm mix into the cups, then the dry barrier, then tied the tin foil to the top, steamed, and just innocced thorugh the foil? thats it?

Even if it doesn't contaminate, I see the mycleium wasting a lot of energy colonizing the peat. I would expect this to contaminate as well. As soon as the peat gets wet, trich will grow on it.
RR

[Beast]

That's interesting, peat is listed as the material of choice for casing material in TMC...either as a 4 peat:1 lime flour:.5 lime grit:2-2.25 water or 2 peat : 1 chalk or marl: 1-1.25 water ratio. And here I was already to follow mr stamet's suggestions.

So increasing the alkalinity doesn't keep out contams? and the only sure fire way to keep contams out of a casing layer is to ensure that there are no nutrients in the casing layer?

Or is this extreme view of casing only needed if poor air exchange rates exist? Because don't contams thrive in high co2 which is opposite of what fruiting conditions require? (assuming they are given soething nutricious to grow on?)

[~Hippie3]

the foil covers are keeping the mold spores off,
apparently.
i'm surprised but hey
that's what makes real experiments
so much better than conjecture and opinion.
but i too
would like to see more examples and further along as well.
still,
lookin' good.

[~Hippie3]

archive material
just in case.

I like the idea...Seems like trich usually starts on more nutritious materials then moves on to gobble everything in it's path, so if the spores cant get down to the goodies i would'nt think they would germinate . As long as the nutes in the jar dont wick up through ,then maybe it does work...That extra thick layer could b key...

is that cup a pint? or half pint?

also, just a rubber band and tin foil, would work fine? after innoculating through the tin foil, did u tape?

I predict he'll find trich when he removes the lid. The foil is also holding moisture in, therefore the peat is damp.
RR

[~Hippie3]

ah, but even if,
still the cake is nearly fully colonized
and once can just shake off the peat...
but i see no sign of any trouble in
those recent pix.
he may have just pulled this off.

is peat inert? like, does it have any nutes for trich to hatch? if not, i dont see why dry peat would be more contam prone than dry verm....

also, i think that way you're doing it seems way easier than using canning jars, plastic 99cent cups, tin foil and rubberbands, i think i m gonna do thse from now on, i can fit like 10 of these in my pot, as opposed to my 3 1 pint chinese food containers...

did you innoculate right through the foil? did u tape the hole afterwards? or just left it?

[MNL]

This picture shows the PEAT/rice cakes that I made some time ago. Left is Mexican-clone, right is Hawaiian multi-spore.

[MNL]

These are some 50/50 peat/verm cakes. 2 of 3 have a funky patch where it did not seem to colonize. I am going to let them grow invitro to see what happens. Notice the shrooms growing around the uncolonized spot on the middle cup...hum?

[MNL]

These cakes were made with a peat barrier instead of a verm barrier. One did super great, the other is having some funk. (both EQ clone).

[MNL]

These cakes were made with a little bit of peat, verm, and shredded toilet paper. They will be used to inoculate the rolls of TP in the pic. In the netherlands we have this oxymoron: zacht en sterk.

[MNL]

Conclusion:

Before this project I had never had a jar contam on me. Several of these experimental jars contamed. None of the regular PF-cakes I made at the same time with the same clones/multi-spores contamed.

What really surprised me is that some worked, while others didnt....I would have thought that the whole batch would have gone bad, rather than just a few.

Further experiments are needed to determine if pressure sterilization would work better than the steam procedure that I use.

I would give 1 in 4 odds that any given cup made with 100% peat (barrier and verm substitute) would work to satisfaction, but it would take forever. This was the origional intent of these experiments: to see how feasable a 100% peat PF style jar would be.

Notes:
My peat had light nutes in it, take that as you will.
More peat=more time to colonize. Why? 1) less fluffy, fewer air pockets. 2) the myc. slows down to eat the nutes in the peat - this is one of the beaties of the non-nute nature of verm: the myc. streatches quickly to get the next food pocket. (source: my research in the mycotopia.net archives)

[MNL]

Some links:

Peat instead of verm barrier (Peat instead of verm for top barrier, trial.)

TP cakes (Toilet Paper Cake TEK- Illustrated)

Contam in a 50/50 cup (Contam?)

[MNL]

I just did an update in another thread. I didnt know there were unanswered questions here.

My cups are 200 (220?) ML = .5 pint (I think, who the hell knows imperial conversions? 260ML=1 US cup)

busst:
I use this cup method all the time now. It is a tin-foil top with some wire or a twist-tie around it. It works GREAT. I have never had a contam before these experiments.

Peat is not inert, it is slightly nutritious - plus - my peat has fertalizer added to it.

I wipe foil with alcohol, poke through, inject, then cover the hole with a little label sticker from the store (packets of 100's, no need to tear tape with latex gloves on - yuck.).

YES! I do this because I can fit 6 of these in my steam instead of 3 .5 pint glas jars.

[MNL]

Originally Posted by busst

did you just pack the brf/verm mix into the cups, then the dry barrier, then tied the tin foil to the top, steamed, and just innocced thorugh the foil? thats it?

I also use a dry verm layer on the bottom, just a pinch before the substrate goes in. I dont know if this is key, but I consider it manditory for my work.

[MNL]

Originally Posted by MNL

These cakes were made with a peat barrier instead of a verm barrier. One did super great, the other is having some funk. (both EQ clone).

I bet that I could try gritty lime as a top barrier, huh?

i tried using the cups you did, and they all warped out. you steam them? i had holes in the tin foil also, i dont know what im doing wrong, but i made a huge mess lol