poo only attempt

[stonesofthegodz]

so someone is going to use bagged poo and wbs. she has no verm(she can get it but is going to try to do this without it) and is staying away from coir and peat till this allergy thing is figured out totally.

two ziplock bags were filled with the poo and put in a turkey baster and paturized at 160 for two hours. a few things she noticed, the bags fill with air and bubble, it seems that one MAY have opened during the cooking but she cant be sure because it may have opened when she handled it to move it to cool.
also,the bags get very very pliable and can tear easy due to the hot temps so be careful when moving.
next time she may try to get as much air out of the bag as possible before pasturizing, really pressing down hard on the bag before sealing.
she is going to put the two bags of poo in a big turkey oven bag with some wbs. she doesnt know if she should use 1 or 2 quarts of wbs. it looks like maybe three pounds of poo'ish. not sure.
and she wanted to know if she could add distilled water to the mix to get it to field capacity when cooled.

any suggestions?

she is unsure of how she is going to get it to trigger to pin and fruit since there is no casing, and nothing but poo and spawn. maybe keep it in a dark area until fully colonized and then expose to light when its ready, and maybe try to drop the temp in the area? she doesnt know totally yet.

[the_chosen_one]

2 quarts wbs per 2 pounds of poo may be a bit much. It will colonize very quick but it will also be more prone to contams. 1 quart per 2 pounds may be better. Although, there's a few poo gurus floating about the topia..it may be wise to wait for some more input. I do da poo on occasion but mostly I'm a grain fruiter. This will be fun though..Thanks for sharing!

Re-reading...does "someone" plan on colonizing the wbs first? (Recommended.)
Sounds like they are going to mix everything. They shouldn't have to add any water after pasteurization either..all should be done prior.

Any strain in mind?

[stonesofthegodz]

the wbs is already colonized with Eq. the only reason why she was asking about adding water was because most threads shes read say to have the poo at field capacity, but since the poo was shielded from the water in the turkey baster cause of the ziplock bag, it is still sort of dry like when it was bagged originally. it could use a little added moisture to get it to capacity. she figured distilled water was ok for almost everything else so she could add it with little to no problems. but she is not sure.

[the_chosen_one]

I've never added after the fact...better hang on til we get a poo guru in da house Oh Freaky where are you? Oh yeah, she's out pickin today. Anyone else?

Are you sure it is not wet enough? You did bring it to field capacity before pasteurizing, right? If so I bet it is fine to use as is. The worst thing you can do is oversaturate it.

If you absolutely have to add some distilled to it it will probably be fine. The pasteurization process does not kill everything anyway but if you do add distilled water make sure you get it colonized quickly to be on the safe side. Not sure how they bottle distilled water but I bet it has some contaminant spores floating around in it.

How hard would it be to start over?

[stonesofthegodz]

nope she didnt put it to field capacity, she just took handfuls straight from the bag and put them in the ziplocks, sealed and pasturized.
wouldnt be hard at all to start over, but she thinks she may be ok this way. she has her fingers crossed. worst comes to worse it fails and she learns something.

[hogwild]

i like that attitude.

Ive added some water to poo and to compost after pasturization, it worked out fine. Distilled water from an unopened bottle is the way to go. In the future id recommend moistening your sub to a tad over field capacity, pasturizing, and then squeezing out the excess moisture before using it.

Yep with an attitude like that you will succeed. Just remember with this hobby you will have failures. Live and learn.

[stonesofthegodz]

quick question, is spring bottled water ok. she has some dasani or however you spell it and she was thinking about just using that instead of distilled.

[hogwild]

its only a buck for a gallon of distilled at your local grocer, id recommend purchasing a gallon instead of using your sparkletts water. Distilled is prepared differently than your sparkletts water. The acceptable ppm for bacteria is different for bottled drinking water than it is in distilled. Just my .02. Peace.

[the_chosen_one]

See, this is fun

I love this place!

I too love this place!


My thoughts on what I've read so far:

Store bought manure, I've never used, but in reading some accounts its almost necessary to cut it with something to loosen it a bit. Verm, peat, coir, straw. I know she didn't want to do any of that, so best of luck and I hope it works well. Most people cut the store bought manure because it tends to get sticky and mud like I guess. But I don't have experience so I'm hoping her poo stays good and loose/airy.

The pasteurization sounds like it went well, though like others suggested, its best to wetten it before past. That way you can see the consistency you are going to have before you spawn your grain to it.

Adding water after the fact should be perfectly fine. I'd go with distilled water like others suggested also. I've been known on occasion to use Hippie3's 200/1 bleach/water mix (1 tablespoon bleach/1 gallon h2o) to add a bit of water after pasteurization. I find this works fine with my tap water and has never caused any contamination to my poo projects or been enough to stunt or ruin any growth. I also put it in a spray bottle to spray my poo if its not at feild capacity.

Everything should go well, the only problem I think she may run into is with the poo sticking together and not being lose or airy enough to colonize completely. I hope she doesn't have that problem! And Definitely let us know how it goes, and pictures if ya can! Best of luck!

[stonesofthegodz]

thanks for the advice. so far shes done three bags. she uses two gallon ziplock bags full of substrate per 1 quart of wbs spawn (she did break down and get some verm, and mixed it in with the poo. the verm is fine vermicullite but its all they had). she fills a turkey oven bag with the mix. she has found two things, one, the bags dont square out at the bottom like other bags people use which is sort of troublesome, and she has a hard time making a polyfil top using rubberbands because the bag is so big by the time she wraps and wraps the top around the polyfill, no air can really pass through.

unless she can find a way to change those two lil bumps, she may just go smaller and fill big ziplock bags instead. she just likes the idea of big bags filled with stuff. bigger bags may produce bigger mushrooms if it is anything like tubs.

(btw, this thread can be moved to fungi since there are no pics)

[the_chosen_one]

Your wish is my command! But we are still hoping for some pics of success so we can move it back hehehe.

I love pics too!


I think she will notice a difference in how the mycelium eats the poo/verm mix rather than just the straight poo. Its okaythat it was the fine verm also as you are just mixing it with the poo, not using it as casing material.

So she's planning on fruiting from the bag?

[stonesofthegodz]

yes she wants to try to keep the whole thing in the bag from start to finish .

[WeedyResin]

Shit rocks!!! Especially in dub tubs. I think I'll go get a shit-load more today! Waitin' fer rain to go see if the pile has any pan subs.

http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/136274.html
http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages...tml?1056984650


Those are a couple links I found for you to read up a bit on fruiting from the bag. Also, check the Vaults here for maybe some more.

I've never fruited from the bags, so my experience with that is nill.
What is your friends plan for fruiting from the bags?

[stonesofthegodz]

well she sort of doesnt know what to do. she is first waiting for full colonization. the bags are in the dark. so shes thinking maybe after full colonization she will put the bags in the light, and maybe fan more?

she doesnt remember if its hi CO2 levels or a sudden DROP in c02 levels that help induce pinning. but maybe someone can chime in and help. there are a few threads , morthos i think his name is, and invitro and a few others who do bag grows. im hoping maybe they will offer advice as well. maybe sprinkling some verm on top after full colonization will make them pin, like a casing layer. hahaha she really is going with it day by day. she is learning daily.

A search for Invitro or Morthos should turn up the posts you are looking for. The search link is at the top, kinda under your name.

http://forums.mycotopia.net/showthre...nning+strategy (Casing Pinning Strategy)
A good thread about pinning and casing layers, though not in a bag, has good info and applies to the general rule for what you are interested in finding out.

Hope those help

[prismaticEffects]

Originally Posted by stonesofthegodz

quick question, is spring bottled water ok. she has some dasani or however you spell it and she was thinking about just using that instead of distilled.

i dont think dasani is 'spring bottled water'-
lots of those bottled waters are straight from the tap.
it says on the label.

Good luck to you, by the way.

[stonesofthegodz]

well since she is learning along the way, she will post what she figures out the hard way.
the first bag was done dry and then water added later, this is not recommended by her. she found that mixing in the bag got the bag a lil muddy, its not clear and easy to see through like the second bag that had a mix that was PREfield capacitied (if thats even a word heheh).
so although she got the mix to be the correct moisture level, it IS a lot easier to just premix to the proper level before pasturizing. (like she was told by others heheh)

[stonesofthegodz]

hi guys a little update. three bags were done. the first done with the water added last. it is actually colonizing slowly. the myc is going into the poo.

second bag has a little verm in it, the wbs is fully recovered but doesnt look like its going after the poo verm mix yet. this bag is a day behind the first.
the last bag is two days behind the first. and has more verm in the poo mix than the second bag. again, the wbs is totally recovered but it doesnt appear to be colonizing the poo mix.
each day the bags are opened and pushed down a few times to get air in, then rolled up with air trapped inside to make a small micro environment, sometimes twice a day.
maybe the poo is too dry? could that cause the myc to not eat it, or maybe it just needs to be cut with coir next time to make it fluffy (remember , straw is out of the question). i will see about getting my friend to get pictures if i can.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Pics would help a LOT.

Any substrate (including poo) will preform poorly if it is too wet or too dry.

Also, there is no need to do so much air exchange while colonizing the poo. Only a VERY small amount of fresh air is needed and the myc grows better when CO2 levels are kept high. I have read about some "real" mushroom growers having good results with adding CO2 into the substrate beds.

The fluffier you can make the poo with shredding, proper hydration and cutting with other materials (coir would be fine), the faster it will colonize.

Don't fret it...you'll get it right!

[stonesofthegodz]

She is going to get some coir and hopefully isnt allergic to it, she may rub a small bit on her arm to see if she breaks out from it. If everything is a go she will mix it with poo when pasturizing. She wants to do a few small ziplock bags. Wht do you suggest for a ratio. 50/50 coir/pooverm?

[~Hippie3]

50/50 poo/coir is a decent ratio to start, see how much water it holds

[stonesofthegodz]

she is going to go with the 50/50, should she add a tidbit of verm as well or would that be unnecessary. since the coir will retain a good amount of moisture and actually has some nutes.

I'd save the verm, and just mix 50/50 coir/poo. That should be a good mix for it.

What brand store bought manure is being used? Sometimes the store bought manure doesn't always work out as well.

Glad to know its starting to show signs of life!

[stonesofthegodz]

well a little update, the first bag got tossed, it wasnt colonizeing well, started to smell bad and may have had some spots that got contamed. the second and third bags are starting to colonize it seems but way to slowly. the poo just may be too clumpy and thick by itself even with some verm for the myc to eat. so more verm should have been added maybe.

anyway, now she is going to try a 50/50 coir/poo mix and in smaller ziplock sized bags. start small can anyone give an idea of how she will know what the correct water content should be for this mix. when she mixes the poo and coir and water. should she be able to just get a drip out of it like field capacity, or drier or wetter?
thanks (btw, the digital camera isnt working, no pics till she gets a new one)

field capacity has always been my goal, I like to squeeze it and get a little bit of water between my fingers, then it should fluff up nice after the squeeze, that tells me its good to go.

My guess is also the poo only is not airy enough for good colonization. May have needed a bit more verm in it as you say. The 50/50 coir should do well.

[hogwild]

Ive had minimal success w/ straight poo due to its consistancy. Adding verm/ coir/ peat will help fluff that poo up and make it easier for the myc to colonize every last bit. Gl with your next bag mission.

[stonesofthegodz]

All my friend can say is wow o wow, what a difference the coir makes in the texture of the substrate. the poo even with a pretty good amount of verm had a MUD consistancy, no wonder the myc cant rip through it. But the mix of poocompost and coir is so fluffy and airy. Like a sponge. She didnt really measure everything , she started out with a 50/50 mix and kept adding additional coir until the mixture was nice and fluffy while still holding moisture. In the end she used a full brick of coir to a few pounds of poo. She has very high hopes for this new batch of bags that will be done. She is also going to spawn them in ziplock bags instead of oven bags this time so any failures will be smaller scale. She will keep everyone posted

[BuckarooBanzai]

Sounds most excellent! Coir is a good additive to substrate, IMHO. It fluffs nicely while still holding quite a bit of water. Myc just rips through it.

GOOD LUCK!!!!

Mondo positive "work this time, dammit" vibes coming your way...

[stonesofthegodz]

omg u guys. its only been two days and the myc is doing so well in these new bags. she thought they may be a little on the dry side but so far it looks really really good. i have to convince her to buy a digital camera!

thanks a ton for the advice. i will get her to get some pics to show you. thank you thank you thank you

[~Hippie3]

sounds great, in general a bit dry is far better than a bit too wet.
on the polyfil neck problem
use a tube to contain the polyfil in the neck of the bag
that way rubberbands won't cut off airflow
short sections of plastic pipe work well for that

[stonesofthegodz]

my friend was even more lazy than ever imagined. she actually just poked a hole in the bag. not too big, sorta the size that a small thumb can go through and rolled up some poly fill and plugged up the hole. so far its working great. all the bags are at least 60% colonized, some even more.
she used gallon ziplock bags, filled them halfway with the poo/coir mix, and then used half a quart of wbs in each. so thats a pint i think? i dont know if thats a normal amount or considered superspawning, but its working GREAT so far. there was some condensation on the inside of the bags but that is from the tempature changes from day to night and doesnt appear to have any bad effects on the myc so far. the myc overall is ropey and strong and she is excited.

keep you posted

[stonesofthegodz]

ok quick question. the bags are about 80% colonized, but the end is going a little slowly. here is the question, should she leave the bags closed allowing the co2 levels to stay high in there or open the bags quickly and give a burst of fresh air then close again. shes not sure if she should introduce the oxygen or wait till full 100% colonization, so it helps induce pinning.

*well in an attempt to follow tradition here, half the bags were opened and fanned, the other half werent. she will see if there is any noticable difference

[stonesofthegodz]

quick update,
no difference was seen between the bags that were opened and the ones that werent.
a quick question though, thin shrooms means high c02 levels maybe? all of her bags have nice mushies but they are long and thin.