marsofold DMT tek questions [merged]

[valentine]

Hi, someone is attemping the marsofolds tek, and has a few questions.

1. He started cooking in the crookpot and it looks like he used too much water/vinegar solution (about 5 liters). 3 liters in one 2hr and 2 in another.
Is it going to hurt anything to cook all of this down to 3 liters in a stainless steel pot?

2. He messed up and might have used a higher vinegar/water ratio than the recipe called for. Will this effect the amount of basification solution needed?

3. Most imporantly, he can't find a GLASS turkey baster anywhere but online, and can't wait for the order. Where can one find a GLASS turkey baster locally? Is this necessary or can you use a PLASTIC turkey baster?

[suckerfree]

I'm not an expert, but I've done the tek a couple times...

Question 1: Yes, you can reduce the liquid, boil it down some.
2: Not really sure, I seem to recall that you could add extra lye as it is better to err on the plus side than on the not enough... one of the other guys will come along soon and answer that for sure!
3: I didn't use a turkey baster, I just used an empty syringe that I usually would use to 'noc up a jar with... works great!

[Dutchdude]

When doing an extraction of 250 grams rootbark, I ended up with three liters. Boiled it down SLOWLY to 400ml in a little over an hour. Didnt hurt the yield at all. I gues you have to be careful to have at least 100ml per 1 gram expected dmt.

I use a non glass turkey baster which works fine but a big syringe should do the trick as well

[valentine]

Thanks,

He saw your log Dutch dude this was of great assitance to him.

[cheech]

once again, experience has taught me VERY little to no acid is needed in an mhrb extraction. i've found the bark to be acidic enough on it's own. adding acid will result in having to add extra lye to bring the ph up to 13 in the later steps. great results have been obtained using no acid in the polar extract step.

[Dutchdude]

did you actually test it with and without acid on a similar batch of rootbark?

[BCubensis]

When boiling down the solution would that affect how much lye is used? Or would you still follow the tek and use the 70g's?.

[cheech]

Originally Posted by Dutchdude

did you actually test it with and without acid on a similar batch of rootbark?

sure did. got a much cleaner product without the addition of acid. same yield.

[cheech]

Originally Posted by BCubensis

When boiling down the solution would that affect how much lye is used? Or would you still follow the tek and use the 70g's?.

yes it would. however, mars tek is an excellent guide for the beginner. using it step by step you cannot fail. mars is the man!
for those more experienced in acid /base extractions knowing just how much lye to use becomes second nature.

[Dutchdude]

I really want to be in control about the volume of liquid I work with (to avoid having to do three naptha washes three times because it doesnt fit into one container). So what I do now is, boil down to 400ml. Heat up 100ml of water and saturate that with lye (I keep adding slowly untill it doesnt take anynore up). I add this entirely to basidify and I dont even use the PH meter anymore.

[valentine]

Looks like he ended up with 3 liters, already decanted and ready to basify. He guesses he will grab some ph testers just to be certian, but will follow mars' basification measurment.

From further experience is 2 150ml naptha pulls enough? Or should one go for a third?

The recipe says let the jug sit for at LEAST 4 hours, how crucial is this and should one let it sit for longer?

Thanks everyone!

[Elf Salvation]

The juice will become very gloss black when the desired Ph >13 is reached. More than enough lye wont hurt.

[Elf Salvation]

double post

[Elf Salvation]

Originally Posted by Elf Salvation

Letting the extraction sit four hours to seperate, I believe will give a cleener product. I do think yeild will be less if extrating is performed over more than a few days. Alkaloids oxodizing...

Naptha is safe with most plastics

[biognosis]

hi there. new to mycotopia, and it looks like the place to be. i've been lurking a while, but this is my first post.

swim recently extracted 1/2 kilo mhrb according to the steps layed out in marsofold's tek, but when all was said and done, swim found he only managed to get 400mg of beautiful, pure, fluffy white crystals, rather than the estimated 2.5g.

the root bark was painstakingly powdered to a fine dust in a blender. it was then subjected to three 2 hour simmers in a teflon coated pan on the stove. the goop was filtered thru a t-shirt and sqeezed for every last drop of liquid. it was basified, swim thinks, more than adequately (more on that later), and subjected to two 200ml naptha pulls. the naptha was subsequently combined and evaporated down to ~200ml, then recrystalized in the freezer.

following are the places swim may have gone wrong. any comments would be greatly appreciated.

1. the first simmer: swim set the burner to "2," thinking there was no way it would boil at that temperature. after forty-five minutes or so, swim returned to the kitchen to find blood red liquid covering the stovetop. after swearing at himself for his carelessness and cursing the delicious beer he has a predilection toward drinking while doing important things, swim mopped up what he could with a sponge and returned it to the pan. after that, swim found that one and a half was a more appropriate temperature setting to maintain a slow simmer. there's no telling how long the soup had been boiling over.

2. basification: the tek says

The brown foam you see floating on top of the basified extract after tilting the jug should flatten out to a thickness of no more than 1/2" after 45 minutes or so if you've used enough lye.

swim saw no "brown foam" whatsoever after basifying, and the liquid went from reddish brown to a deep, inky black almost immediately.

3. weak root bark: i saw mentioned somewhere around here that researchbotanicals was selling exceptionally weak root bark for a while. i think marsofold may have said it. well, sadly, that was where swim ordered his mhrb. and to lend credence to this possibility, said company was out of stock and swim's order was delayed until a cod was returned and sent to him instead. they promised swim an additional 1/2 kilo when they got more in stock, so eventually he'll know for sure whether this was the culprit.

in any case, attached is a picture of the resultant product; swim's pride and joy even if it was a meager yield.

if you stuck around this long, thanks for listening. see you around.

[marsofold]

Researchbotanicals again. They bought a huge amount of worthless rootbark a while back, then offered it at the lowest prices on the web. After everyone got almost zero yield, they quietly replaced the bad rootbark with normal stuff for everybody who bitched. Buy your rootbark from known reputable sources and pay the price. You probably didn't do anything else wrong. The acidification step is very forgiving. Any ph below 5.5 will probably work. Some people just rely on the tannic acid in the rootbark to get below 5.5 and get fine yields. The fact that you had no emulsions along with the slippery black color says you basified correctly. More lye will not significantly reduce the yield, so you did that right. And your naptha/evap freeze-precip amounts were perfect. So the source is almost certainly the problem. Change rootbark vendors...

[biognosis]

thanks, marsofold. i figured as much. just wanted to make sure swim hadn't erred in some unforeseen way. we'll see how the next batch goes and report back.

[Chaos]

I was suckered in by a buy One key Get another 1/2 free deal.
HUGE wast of time. Bouncing Bear has alway treated me Right.

[motograter]

Stupid question. MHRB = mimosa hostilis root bark??

[waylitjim]

Yep

[penstarfifteen]

Originally Posted by Chaos

I was suckered in by a buy One key Get another 1/2 free deal.
HUGE wast of time. Bouncing Bear has alway treated me Right.

BBB has always done me well too!

[papalion]

Acidification is forgiving.. but you don't really need to do it at all..

get a pH meter or strips. go up to pH 11 or >

200gNaOH in 1.5L h20 +550g mhrb(pulverized)
stir like hell
wait a day. add 400ml napthalene (VM&P) wait 2-3days.. evap in shallow dish or use vacuum dist/rotovap, etc. for solvent recovery. gives greatest yields..
though needs 1 more wash compared to freeze precip (<yield)

directly basifying yields are far greater than acid/base extraction... sadly. and quality is pretty equivalent. gives yellow product. freeze precip cystals are clear.. if few.

[condo_pygmy]

Would heat speed up the direct base tek ? Rather than waiting a day -
Let's say simmering the direct base / mhrb solution in a crockpot for a few hrs, then add/extract NPS...

[peregrinus]

re: no brown foam

Just to clarify, is there a correlation between the "brown foam" quoted above from the Marsofold TEK and the potency of the MHRB or potential yield of the TEK? A friend recently performed a virtually identical extraction with the same amount of bark. Her bark was purchased from BBB, their premium inner root bark. My friend also saw no brown foam, just a rapid transition to inky/oily black with no emulsions.

cheers

[condo_pygmy]

The fact that there was no brown foam emulsions is good, when there is alot of brown foam one can add a little extra base to reduce these emulsions...

[peregrinus]

Thanks c_p I'll pass that along...

[wudep50]

Should the crockpot be covered while the MHRB water-vinegar solution is being heated?

If one were unable to find a glass turkey baster would a plastic or stainless steel one work okay?

thanks

[condo_pygmy]

Yes, cover the crockpot while cooking the brew...
as for the turkey baster any will do, even an eye dropper works just fine...

[suckerfree]

I use an empty syringe...

[cheech]

i like a big 10 cc syringe that's used for injecting marinade into meats. it gets every last bit of the naptha. works like a mini sep funnel too.

[penstarfifteen]

You can get a "Fox Run Glass Turkey Baster" from any Ace Hardware store, Here's a link to an online store:
http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...archId=1306309
Works like a charm!

[wudep50]

Thanks everyone. I was worried since marsofold specifies the materials to be used a lot in the tek, that maybe there was a reason not to use something other than glass (that it could cause a negative reaction maybe).

Anyway, a FOAF will be doing an extraction very soon. Will post results when it's done.

[biognosis]

ok, folks. hello again. quick update.

swim got his new half kilo. this time from a new batch. last time was a returned cod from the old batch which, i'm assuming, is the one everyone else was complaining about.

good news this time, though. all said and done, swim's yield was 2.25 grams. swim attributes any losses to his own failures, given that this was only his second attempt.

a few minor changes from the first attempt. started with powdered bark, and just did three quick acid soaks by bringing a pot on an electric burner to a simmer, covering, turning off the burner (but leaving the pan on it) and waiting a half hour before straining and repeating. also, swim came upon a small separatory funnel at the local university's surplus store and was able to wash the naptha with 1 x ammonia+baking soda, and 2xdh2o prior to freeze precip. crystals still came out a little yellowed, which didn't happen last time, but no big deal.

probably could have bolstered the yield a bit had swim not thrown away the used bark mush just hours before reading about marsofold's suggestion to go back over it with a straight to base tek. but oh well, compared to the 400mg he got last time, swim is just beaming.

i'd take pictures, but i don't have a camera right now. and in any case, you could just photoshop my last picture to add a yellow tint and there you'd have it.

there will be a taste test tonight. i'll let you kids know how it goes.