Marsofold's DMT Extraction tek & results....

[mockeylock]

I'd never actually do an extraction like this, but this is how it went in my dream:

It worked like a charm! White crystals right out of the freezer.

I'll wash them with ice cold ammonia if it's dry in tonight's dream.



Thanks for the tek, marsofold, I owe you one. If you can follow a recipe to bake a cake, you can do this.

[mockeylock]

Also, thanks to pissybee for all your advice. It all helped very much!

[marsofold]

Be sure not to use too much ammonium hydroxide for the wash or your weight losses will be high. Use 14milliliters per gram of crystals PRE-CHILLED in a refrigerator. That amount will cause a 10% loss. An acceptable percentage to me to get it clean...

[mockeylock]

So how do you store crystal? Does light break it down or just heat and air?

[marsofold]

I keep mine in amber bottles. My reserve stash (10grams) is tightly packed in an amber bottle in the freezer. My day-to-day stash is in a smaller amber bottle kept in a desk drawer away from sunlight...

[Jonah]

god those are pretty.

Is that from the standard pound of material? how many grams does that weigh out to? after the wash did you end up loosing the 10%?

thanks a lot.

-j.

[~Hippie3]

the tek in question-

How to easily make DMT:
=======================
Break 1-Pound of Mimosa Hostilis rootbark into 2" pieces and grind it all up in a glass-topped blender, a little at a time.
------------------------------------
Polar Extraction: Premix in an empty 1-Gallon plastic jug: 1-Pint White Vinegar & 3-1/2 Quarts Water. Put the ground up Mimosa in a 3-Liter crockpot, then fill it with the water-vinegar solution. Stir well and turn it on "high". After 2 hours, remove the crockpot ceramic liner, hold the lid on slightly offset, and pour off most of the liquid into a 1-gallon wide-mouthed glass or stainless container. Add the remaining water-vinegar solution to the crockpot again. Stir well and turn it on "high". After 2 hours, remove the crockpot ceramic liner, hold the lid on slightly offset, and pour off all of the liquid into the same container again. Discard the rootbark fiber and save the two combined extractions in the 1-gallon container. Allow the vegetable particles in the extraction in the 1-gallon container to settle to the bottom overnight. Then pour off the liquid into an empty 1-Gallon GLASS wine jug, being careful not
to pour off any of the vegetable sludge at the bottom. Discard the sludge and keep the contents of the wine jug.
------------------------------------
Basification: Premix in advance a solution of: 4 Tablespoons (50grams) of Sodium Hydroxide ("Red Devil" lye) with 1-Pint of HOT Water. Stir well. Slowly add this solution to the wine jug, then cap the jug. Gently tilt the wine jug back and forth for 1 full minute to mix the contents.
------------------------------------
Nonpolar Extraction: Add 200ml of (Ace Hardware)VM&P Naptha to the wine jug, then cap the jug. Gently tilt the wine jug back and forth for 3 full minutes to mix the contents. Allow the jug to sit undisturbed on a table for 3 hours. There should now be two layers visible in the jug, a lower dark one and a smaller clear one on top. Use a glass turkey baster to suck up the top layer into a pint mason jar. Be careful not to suck up any of the lower brown/black layer into the mason jar.
-------------------------------------
Freeze-precipitation/wash: place the sealed mason jar in a FREEZER for 3 days to precipitate the crystals. Prepare a filter setup by placing a funnel into a quart mason jar and putting a small coffee filter paper into the funnel. Shake the naptha in the mason jar strongly to stir up all the crystals at the bottom and quickly pour while still very cold into the funnel for filtering. Impure yellow-white DMT crystals will be seen on the coffee filter paper. Allow the crystals to completely dry out on the filter paper in the funnel. Chill a bottle of NON-SOAPY clear Ammonium Hydroxide(Ace Hardware Janitorial Strength Ammonia) in a refrigerator. Slowly pour 35ml of the cold ammonia over the crystals (still in the filter paper) to wash them. Remove the filter paper from the funnel, spread it out flat and allow the crystals to COMPLETELY dry out. You will now have 2-1/2 grams of white crystal DMT. Mix it with some parsley and smoke a little in your favorite pipe!

(chilled ammonia updated 4 aug 05 loki)

------UPDATE! Added june 8:

Here are some tips for improving the yield:
#1 Grind the rootbark up to 1mm diameter or smaller. Finer is better.
#2 Use three water-vinegar extractions rather than two. Divide up the water-vinegar mix so that you roughly use 50% for the first extraction, 25% for the second, and 25% for the third extraction. After the last extraction press out the fiber to squeeze the last bit of liquid from it.
#3 Basify to a ph of 13. If you don't have ph papers, basify till it turns black, then add an additional 25% of whatever amount of basification solution you used. This is to guarantee that you're at a ph of 13. The brown foam you see floating on top of the basified extract after tilting the jug should flatten out to a thickness of no more than 1/2" after 45 minutes or so if you've used enough lye. Add a bit more lye and re-tilt if it's thicker than that.
#4 Naptha: the freeze-precipitation technique is a double-edged sword. Very convenient and high quality, but highly dependent upon knowing the approximate amount of DMT expected to be precipitated. If you use too much naptha, then only a little bit precipitates out. If you use too little, then it doesn't extract it all out of solution. It is the simplest case of recrystalization. The best way using it if you aren't very sure of the yield is to use a slight excess to extract, then evaporate it down to 10% of the original volume. THEN freeze it. This will pretty much guarantee excellent results. For example: For a pound of rootbark use 500 milliliters of naptha to extract. Then evaporate it down to 50 milliliters. Then freeze it and filter out the crystals. By the way, you must very quickly filter it within a minute or two after removal from the freezer so it doesn't have any time to warm up. And your freezer can't be marginally cold. If it doesn't freeze ice cream HARD,then it isn't cold enough. -20C is about where it should be.
#5 Washing: Be sure that the crystals are absolutely DRY before washing. An alternative to the ammonia-water wash is to use 25 milliliters of ICE COLD distilled water to wash.
------------------------

from
http://forums.mycotopia.net/showthread.php?t=5353 (Another DMT extraction Q=Loki's DMT Extraction Guide)

[mockeylock]

My yield was actually very small, less then a gram...

but that doesn't bother me. It was my first time, and I got some very pretty crystals. I only did two simmers, the second of which might have gotten too hot for a minute or two. I also next time would probably use a bit more naphtha after basification because you can always evaporate it down. I also never measured the pH.

So there are a number of things I could do to increase yield, mainly to simmer longer at a lower temp and do it more times--which is all in the tek. And I would do a second pull with the naphtha.

It kind of feels like your first successful PF cake. You get a few fruits, you're happy.

Freeze precipitation is absolutely the way to go in regard to purity. I took a small amount of the naphtha and squirted it into a small pyrex dish and evapped it off...it just left an oily film. When I took the same stuff and put it in the freezer, I got white crystal.

I haven't washed it yet, gotta go to ace hardware.

[skullfarmer]

Originally Posted by mockeylock

My yield was actually very small, less then a gram...

good grief my boy,thats all you got from a LB?
next time i hope you dream of 3, 30min simmers and 3 naptha pulls(what the farmer dreamt) and i see no need to ammonia wash what you had in the pics. you've already lost over 60% of your yield,why take the chance of losing it all when you already have some nice pretty white crystals.they didnt look the least bit yellow.i hope you have a nice tryp!

[~Hippie3]

hmm,
he didn't actually say he used a full pound,
the tek does call for a pound
which begs the question-
is the process scaleable,
i.e. would one just cut all amounts in half
to process a half pound
or is a full pound required ?

that is by far one of the most
easy to follow DMT guides i have
ever seen...good for reading and
learning purposes of course..

nice dream..

[mockeylock]

It was, in fact, a pound. I just need to be more meticulous. 20 good doses from 50 bucks worth of bark, I'm not complaining. But I'll do better next time....

Experience is learning is experience. And who knows how the quality of the bark was.

I think I'm not going to wash this time.

[mockeylock]

Hippie, I'm sure the tek would be scalable to half or whatever. The only thing I wouldn't scale down on too much would be the naphtha. If you went half scale, you'd only be using 100ml of naphtha and trying to pippette that small amount off of the NaOH stuff would be very difficult without a separatory funnel. Or just use a taller, thinner glass container than a gallon jug.

Always use excess Naphtha to make sure you pull out most of the spice, evap down and freeze. That's one important step I learned in my dream.

Just as a side note, and maybe olfactory sense just doesn't work in dreams, but nothing smelled too bad at all. Thanks for the replies, hope you guys learned something, too.

[mockeylock]

Another thing, I had no problems with emulsions whatsoever. The layers settled out in 20 min. flat. But looking back, I should have probably tried to mix them more. Obviously i missed a bunch of the good stuff.

[themills]

Underbasification is the *Numero uno* reason for shitty yield when dreaming. One may dream of two 30 min "high" crockpot sessions being MORE than enough. Or even one... if one had a wine press to guarantee your not leaving behind concentrated juices in the bark. You can scale it down easily if your equipment allows you. I couldnt dream of dreaming without a seperatory funnel! Thats also because one may find it useful to do washing of the nps in liquid form and seperating 7.5 ml or wash from 300 ml of nps could prove difficult. A foaf got a ph meter and realized he had only been basifying to around 11 or 11.5 ! That difference between 11 and 12.5 (what he does now) is a big one when trying to grab all the goodies one could imagine. Also a foaf uses 300 ml v mp naptha to 500 grs bark and just in the fridge crystals crash out in minutes. My foafs barks seems to give up 6.5-7 per kilo of crystals which when slow evaped are large *crystal clear* granuales of mental devestation!
recrystallization with heptane does wonders. (bestine art supply store)
One was wondering about using heptane as the extraction solvent but doesnt know how much to use... Anyone know the solubility for bestine, the heptane at art stores? If not swim should expierment when its possible.

[marsofold]

The lowest yield I ever got was 2.2 grams from a pound. Underbasification IS the usual culprit, since the amount of acid in the polar extraction is very forgiving. And as long as a reasonable amount of naptha is used, the only remaining factor is weak bark. Researchbotanicals was selling VERY weak bark for awhile last spring. The only other advice I can give is to buy a 6-liter crockpot and follow the TEK to the letter...

[~Hippie3]

archive material

[marsofold]

If you're gonna archive it, here is the final version of my TEK:

How to easily make DMT:
=======================
Break 1-Pound of Mimosa Hostilis rootbark into 1" pieces using new heavy-duty
wirecutters, then grind it all up in a glass-topped blender, a little at a time.
------------------------------------
Polar Extraction: Premix in an empty 1-Gallon plastic jug: 1-Quart White Vinegar
& 3-Quarts Water. Put the ground up Mimosa in a 3-Liter crockpot, then fill it
with the water-vinegar solution. Stir well and turn it on "high". After 2 hours,
remove the crockpot ceramic liner, hold the lid on slightly offset, and pour off
most of the liquid into a 1-gallon wide-mouthed glass or stainless container.
Add the remaining water-vinegar solution to the crockpot again. Stir well and
turn it on "high". After 2 hours, remove the crockpot ceramic liner, hold the
lid on slightly offset, and pour off all of the liquid into the same container
again. Discard the rootbark fiber and save the two combined extractions in the
1-gallon container. Allow the vegetable particles in the extraction in the
1-gallon container to settle to the bottom overnight. Then pour off the liquid
into an empty 1-Gallon glass wine jug, being careful not to pour off any of the
vegetable sludge at the bottom. Discard the sludge and keep the contents of the
wine jug.
------------------------------------
Basification: Premix in advance a solution of: 5 heaping Tablespoons (70grams)
of Lye (Lowes Hardware, item# 146450 "Roebic Crystal Drain Opener") SLOWLY
added to 1-Pint of warm water. Stir well. Slowly add this solution to the jug,
then cap it. Gently tilt the wine jug back and forth for 1 full minute to mix.
------------------------------------
Nonpolar Extraction: Add 250ml of (Ace Hardware) VM&P Naptha to the wine jug. Then add exactly enough warm water to the jug to raise the liquid level to an inch below the top. Cap the jug. Gently tilt the wine jug slowly back and forth for 5 full minutes to mix the contents. Allow the jug to sit undisturbed on a table for at least 4 hours. There should now be two layers visible in the jug,
a lower dark one and a smaller clear one on top filling the neck of the jug.
Use a glass turkey baster to suck up the top clear layer into a pint mason jar.
Be careful NOT to suck up any of the lower brown foam/black liquid layer into
the mason jar.
-------------------------------------
Freeze-precipitation/wash: place the sealed mason jar in a FREEZER for 3 days
to precipitate the crystals. Prepare a filter setup by placing a funnel into
a quart mason jar and putting a small coffee filter paper into the funnel.
Shake the naptha in the mason jar strongly to stir up all the crystals at the
bottom and quickly pour while still very cold into the funnel for filtering.
Impure yellow-white DMT crystals will be seen on the coffee filter paper.
Allow the crystals to completely dry out on the filter paper in the funnel.
Chill a bottle of NON-SOAPY clear Ammonium Hydroxide(Ace Hardware Janitorial
Strength Ammonia) in a refrigerator. Slowly pour 35ml of the cold ammonia over
the crystals (still in the filter paper) to wash them. Remove the filter paper
from the funnel, spread it out flat and allow the crystals to COMPLETELY dry out.
You will now have 2-1/2 grams of white crystal DMT. Mix it with some dried
parsley and smoke a little in your favorite pipe!...Marsofold
=================================================
Optional Tips:
#1 Grind the rootbark up to 1mm diameter or smaller. Finer is better.
#2 Use three water-vinegar extractions rather than two. Divide up the
water-vinegar mix so that you roughly use 50% for the first extraction,25% for
the second, and 25% for the third extraction. After the last extraction press
out the fiber to squeeze the last bit of liquid from it.
#3 Basify to a ph of 13. Underbasification is the most common reason for a poor
yield. If you don't have ph papers, basify till it turns black, then add an
additional 25% of whatever amount of basification solution you used. This is to
guarantee that you're at a ph of 13. The brown foam you see floating on top of
the basified extract after tilting the jug should flatten out to a thickness of
no more than 1/2" after 45 minutes or so if you've used enough lye.
Add a bit more lye and re-tilt the jug to mix if it's thicker than that.
#4 Naptha: Dividing the naptha amount into two "pulls", then combining them into the same mason jar for freezing will raise the yield by 10%. The best way of extracting if you aren't sure of the yield is to use a slight excess to extract
and evaporate it down with a small fan to 1/3 of the original volume. THEN freeze it. This will pretty much guarantee excellent results. For example: For a pound of rootbark use 300 milliliters of naptha to extract. Evaporate it down to
100 milliliters. Then freeze it and filter out the crystals. You must very quickly filter it within a minute or two after removal from the freezer so that it doesn't have any time to warm up. And your freezer can't be marginally cold. If it doesn't freeze ice cream HARD, then it isn't cold enough.
#5 A small marble in the naptha rattled around in the mason jar will loosen up
the crystals for filtering. It won't hurt anything to pour it out with the crystals into the filter paper. A buchner funnel is the best kind for filtering.
#6 Washing: Be sure that the crystals are absolutely DRY before washing.
Weigh them and use 14ml of chilled ammonium hydroxide per gram of crystals.

[~Hippie3]

so that's you final version ?

[marsofold]

Yes. The only recent changes are the commercial source of lye (Lowe's) since Red Devil was discontinued, the washing with 14ml of chilled undiluted ammonium hydroxide per gram of DMT, and the marble trick. I lost five grams of DMT determining the optimum ammonium hydroxide wash. I tried room-temp 50%Water-50%NH4OH, chilled 50%Water-50%NH4OH, room-temp NH4OH, and chilled NH4OH. I measured the dried weight before/after on a milligram resolution scale. The chilled Ammonium Hydroxide had the least loss. Then I determined what amount resulted in a 10% loss rate (the most I was willing to lose). Ultimately: 14ml/gram chilled. Expensive information!!!

2 hours soaks are a little long, too. I have gotten away with 3, 20 mins soaks. I turn the burner on high til it just starts to simmer/bubble, stirring frequently, then cut it off, and let it cool for 20 mins, then I strain through a t-shirt and squeeze it out well...

[mockeylock]

"Basification: Premix in advance a solution of: 4 Tablespoons (50grams) of Sodium Hydroxide ("Red Devil" lye) with 1-Pint of HOT Water. Stir well. Slowly add this solution to the wine jug, then cap the jug. Gently tilt the wine jug back and forth for 1 full minute to mix the contents"



I had weighed out 50gr NaOH on a scale since that seemed more accurate than tablespoons.

Just because I've been curious, I just took 4 level tablespoons and weighed it out. It came to 70 grams, not 50. This was Roebic brand, now, not Red Devil--I don't know how much more granulated it is than Red Devil. That may account for the difference in weight.

If they're similar, however, there's a big difference in the amount used and thus the resulting pH.


Marsofold, or anyone, really, if you've still got some Red Devil lying around (no pun intended), would you mind measuring out 4 tablespoons and weighing it again?


I'd rather not buy a digital pH meter if I could get good results without one.

I can hear my wife now, "You want what for Christmas? You're a freak!"

[marsofold]

I still have lotsa Red Devil lye and will weigh out 4 tablespoons tomorow and let you know. ph varies logarithmically. That means it takes 10 times as much to go up a single ph point. So whether you have 50 grams or 70 grams isn't really going to change the ph more than a fraction of a point. I once calibrated my ph meter and slowly added lye and tilt-mixed until the emulsions went utterly flat. I found that the point where they did so was at 13.4, which I consider the ideal ph. It never hurts to use ph papers for extractions just to be sure you haven't massively screwed up.

[~Hippie3]

13.4, which I consider the ideal ph

where to find sodium hydroxide if
red devil isn't available ?

[mockeylock]

Lowes has the Roebic brand in the plumbing/drain care section.

I don't think any of the other big chains carry any pure NaOH at all--go strait to Lowes. 2lbs=$8

[Venice]

http://www.sarahsspacreations.com/Su...duct=Chemicals

I couldn't find any lye at the stores in my area. This company shipped promptly although expensive...10 lbs is about 20 bucks plus shipping

Originally Posted by Venice

http://www.sarahsspacreations.com/Su...duct=Chemicals
I couldn't find any lye at the stores in my area. This company shipped promptly although expensive...10 lbs is about 20 bucks plus shipping

10lbs for $20 is cheap... That is 16 oz's for $2...

Taken from Lowes website:
Roebic 2 Lbs. Heavy Duty Crystal Drain Opener
Item # 146450
Model # HD-CRY
$7.66

[Jonah]

i wonder if sarah is going notice all the weird influx on her lye stock lately..
hmmmmmm.....

there's also a bunch of lye on ebay for soapmaking/glassblowing. wonder if i can't round up a couple alternative places to pick things up at..

http://www.boyercorporation.com/
http://www.snowdriftfarm.com/dry.html but they require a shitty hazmat fee.

[phalanx]

Oh you heartless molecule bandits!!!

[swine]

What would be a proper size of separatory funnel to use for 1lb of bark? I was thinking 1000 ml at least...maybe 2000?

[Venice]

You may want to look at marsofolds tek if you want to process that much raw material at one time. Then you'd be using gallon jugs and jars instead of a sep funnel.

[marsofold]

Extracting a pound of rootbark will generate about 2.8 liters of aqueous solution before basification. You'd either have to use a 1-gallon separatory funnel ($200)or a 1-gallon jug. Personally, I think the combination of a 1-gallon glass wine jug ($10 with the wine) and a glass turkey baster ($3) is the most cost-effective solution. Plus, if you ever want to extract a kilogram of rootbark (the sweet spot in pricing), you're into 2-gallon volumes. What then?

reduce....

[themills]

Originally Posted by pissybee

reduce....

[marsofold]

Isn't it easier just to use a pair of wine jugs than to boil down almost two gallons of liquid? A 5-kilo bulk extraction would mean boiling down 8 gallons of liquid...

[Elf Salvation]

mars

[Jonah]

I definately think a seperatory funnel is worth the cash spent on it. Every time i dont have to worry about some bubble crap emulsion from some sloppy gatorade bottle stuff, i feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

yeah, it takes a lil while to reduce but it's hard to work with 8 gallons of liquid, plus I use less solvent... Also, almost all the turkey basters I've used are very hard to get the last bit of solevnt, plus, the bulb/sucker thing usually get eaten by the solvent, in most I have tried...

[condo_pygmy]

I'd have to agree with mars, it's faster than reducing large acidic extractions.
The sep funnel is really only needed for washing alkaloid extractions.
------------------------------------------------------
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«....................................»
«·´`·.(¸.·´(¸.·* *·.¸)`·.¸).·´`»

[marsofold]

I've got a 1-liter glass separatory funnel that I'll trade for some Pedro or Torch end tip cuttings. Only used twice...

[Gamera]

Originally Posted by marsofold

My reserve stash (10grams) ...

I just spit half of my coffee on my keyboard.

[themills]

Less Liquid means you use less hydroxides whichs gives me peace of mind. And saves money knowing that my acidic extraction has more dmt than lye in it, even though it really doesnt matter. It DOES means you can afford to use Technical Grade solvents, very easily. Even technical grade Sodium Hydroxide, instead of Lowes.

Besides, your comparing apples to oranges. "what about a 5 kilo bulk extraction?" Well.... thats a whole different approach on technique... I.E. a woodchipper for bark Vs. Scissors. A large seperatory funnel as was stated though, should be purchased for no other reason than to wash alkaloid extracts

I agree though, mars's way especially with the gallon jugs is extremely fast, and after a recrystalization or two, all the other details lose some significance. So why not just start with the big jugs...

[Elf Salvation]

This thread gets me thinkin-

take a glass pickle jar-ad to it herbs, half gallon water, then freebase, and mix xylol,tolulene,naptha,-seperate solvent with siphon or baster or watever, mix solvent with vinegar,hcl water, seperate water and again freebase to extract dmt with naptha,hexane,pentane,-cleen-freeze-frye

[Bkultra]

i happen to have a 4000ml separatory funnel and wanted to make sure i got this right...If i wish to use it in this tek it would be used on the step: Nonpolar Extraction?

[marsofold]

Yes. Note: some sort of stand to hold the separatory funnel while the layers divide is definitely necessary. The method recommended to me for using a separatory funnel is to slowly drain off the bottom black layer by opening the stopcock, then when a tiny amount of the top-layer clear naptha has passed through the stopcock, close it. Then pour the naptha out of the top of the funnel into another container.

[Venice]

another plus for using the jugs is that you can put them away while seperating. I hate having that sep funnel sitting out on the counter.