Woodlovers and types of wood questions

[scissors]

I got some blue oyster syringes in the mail recently and I am planning to do some pf cakes with them first of all. I have 3 syringes so plently to play with, I will probably make my own LC too. After that though I would like to move on up to the more regular ways of growing oysters.

I know oysters are wood lovers and can be grown from sawdust so I managed to get hold of 2 big sacks, one fine and one chunky. The trouble is that I'm not quite sure how to use it. Does it have to be sterilized in the pc or can I just pasteruize it in a cooler like I do with hpoo? If pasteruizing will do could I just use pf cakes as spawn and spawn to a small tub of pasteruized sawdust and woodchips? Can I make sawdust and woodchip cakes with a verm barrier and shoot some LC into that if sterilization is needed?

I'm not looking to grow massive amounts, they will be grown in a dome on display in my room. So big logs etc are out of the question. Any advice welcome as always!

[srgtm1a]

With wood chips, I always pasteurize them, I never sterilize them...so yes, I do it just like you would do poo. Only with wood chips, I like to soak them for 48 hours b4 pasteurizing them...make sure they absorb a good amount of moisture.

You could use PF cakes to spawn to the woodchips....or even WBS. I wouldn't suggest injecting your LC directly into a wood based "cake". It does work, but I have always had much better success with spawning to it.

Once you get passed getting all of that setup, there is one extremely important thing when growing oysters, any kind of oysters......FRESH AIR EXCHANGE......that part is where people usually mess things up.

GL TO YA...they are a fun mushroom to grow.

[slp]

You never did say if the chips were Oak or simalar hardwood. If you got pine
or something like that, you are going to need more than fresh air exchange.
grin........slp/fmrc

[srgtm1a]

I've used all types of hard wood.....the only two I stay away from are pine and cedar.

[scissors]

Cool! They are pine. Oh well, it didn't cost anything.

So what is wrong with pine and cedar?

[srgtm1a]

Well.....cedar has a natural resistance against mold and fungus.....which is why they use it a lot in building homes and for landscaping mulch.....so not good to grow mushrooms on something like that.

As far as pine goes....I can't give you the exact reason, but I think it is similar reasons as cedar......If i remember correctly it also had something to do with the sugars in the wood as well. Some types of pine have been used, but a bulk of it not.

I just remember when I was starting out with edibles to stay away from pine and cedar....just can't remember why for pine.

This is gunna drive me nuts now.....I'll research it.

[Yogin]

Horse manure is often mixed with wood chips at the stables near here. I believe it is [not] cedar or pine but do seem to be evergreen chips. they are well mixed and I wonder if this might be a problem in using this poo for cubies. anyone have experience here?

[BigStemz]

It should be fine. Just gotta make sure to leech the poo/chip mix by simply running cold water over it. this is done to remove any amonia from horse piss. What percentage would you say the mix is? 50/50 25/75(poo/chip) ect?

[Yogin]

probably 3/4 poo to 1/4 chips. been composted for awhile in the batch i saw. it gets pasteurized anyway so that takes care of the leaching. I have no worries about the poo itself, just the wood chips

[cap]

you say its well composted, Yog.....i wouldnt worry

i think golly has spawned cubensis to woodchips before

BUMP

[llamabox]

I use a bit of shredded wood mulch in my poo mix sometimes. It helps to fluff it up when I am out of coir.

[StroFun]

Why do woodlovers prefer certain hardwoods over other harwoods?
Are the preferences different between species and/or strains?

I have read that certain edibles prefer the sapwood as opposed to the heart wood. Does this preference pertain to all woodlovers or just a select few?

When it comes to sawdust are these factors the same as wood chips?

Thanks for any help, i'm trying to decide the best use for some spores and some wood.

[hyphaenation]

Alder seems to be the rye grain of wood substrates. An all around performer. Birch is also very forgiving. Alder chips are readily available for smoking fish and landscaping (the smoking chips are smaller).

In my area there is tons of free birch and alder. The people that trim the trees under the powerlines encourage people to cut the hardwoods before they have to. A friend even had 3 truck loads of chipped alder / birch dumped at his place for free by calling the cutting company that was trimming the powerlines. Stamets books are good for listing what woods are good, the list is huge.

What are the most common hardwoods in your area???

[max]

I've noticed that the Ps. cyans around here love the alder of course but I've also seen them on old dried blackberry stalks. Although alder is a hardwood it is actually very soft as is the blackberry stalk. Go figure.....

[strangegem23]

Others here have had good luck with freshly chopped willow branches.

No Alder around these parts, but FOAF has had sucess with White Oak (freshly chipped from a reputable bbq company).

I know that pine is bad because it contains resins that naturally inhibit fungi. I'm sure there's other factors at play including PH, actual "hardness" of the wood, wood chips size, etc.

[Nabby]

I've been getting interested in growing woodlovers on willow, because of it's content of salicylic acid as discussed in the dish soap thread.

[StroFun]

Well i'm mostly wondering what charachterisitics woodlovers like.

because i can find choice wood but giving me a list of 30 different kinds of wood only tells me what and not why. If i can save myself a years worth of time over my lifetime of growing then fuck, thats a years worth of free mushrooms.

[strangegem23]

Azures and cyans are really easy to cultivate. The hard part is the vast time frames needed compared to cubies.

Basically, if you can get Alder, you want to use that as it is what they (azures, cyans) grow on in their natural habitat. If your like my foaf, its too expensive to ship shitloads of alder chips, so use any hardwood availalble in your area. FOAF just received three cubic yards of wood chips from a tree service in his area for about $20. Not too shabby! They are mixed hardwood/softwood, but there should be enough goodies in there to keep the mushroom happy.

Other growth parameters: Make sure your climate is suitable (i.e. cool weather in the fall, like 50's; watering is important in the fall if you live in a dry climate. Choose a shady location for your patch- if you see moss growing its a good indication that the spot will stay moist and cool if your summers are hot. I believe SpaceCake's foaf had a patch that got zapped by some hot weather. Waylit likes a "companion planting" of rye grass to encourage the mycellium up towards the surface.

If you haven't done so, read like everything Waylit has posted on the subject. Tons of info there.

Are you planning on going PF tek to start your woodlovers? This is what FOAF did (hippie's jars did the trick!) and he had fantastic results. After the jars were colonized he crumbled and layered with fresh white oak chips (soaked in a very dilute bleach solution overnight) to generate initial spawn. Then some alder was purchased to double the spawn by mixing the colonized and uncolonized chips. As soon as he can FOAF is going to lay his bed this year. Good luck!

[strangegem23]

Originally Posted by captainmax

I've noticed that the Ps. cyans around here love the alder of course but I've also seen them on old dried blackberry stalks. Although alder is a hardwood it is actually very soft as is the blackberry stalk. Go figure.....

Hmm. If its true that woodlover's prefer the softer hardwoods, this link might be useful:

http://www.sizes.com/units/janka.htm

It has density data for many different species. Might be helpful in selecting a species in your area.

[StroFun]

Thanks for the tips.
I already know all about whats in my area i just need to know the density preference for both magic and plain old edibles. I guess for the edibles i can wait a year or two because i have 5 species of edibles on about 5 species of local wood so i guess i'll just have to wait and see.

I am wondering if this little tid bit would project into the magic types.

Edibles grown on softer hardwoods run out of steam quicker and in the long run the more dense, slower growing types of wood end up producing more overall.

[strangegem23]

Originally Posted by StroFun

Thanks for the tips.
I already know all about whats in my area i just need to know the density preference for both magic and plain old edibles. I guess for the edibles i can wait a year or two because i have 5 species of edibles on about 5 species of local wood so i guess i'll just have to wait and see.

I am wondering if this little tid bit would project into the magic types.

Edibles grown on softer hardwoods run out of steam quicker and in the long run the more dense, slower growing types of wood end up producing more overall.

Perhaps a mixture of soft and hard hardwoods would be the answer. Differing chips sizes as well. The smaller softer woods for quicker colonization and the larger harder pieces to support long term fruiting.

[StroFun]

That would seem logical but on the other board RR states the hard soft mixture that can be attained from state road upkeep agencies is very slow to colonize. hrm maybe it is certain species that inhibit the mic growth. HRM i wonder if this info can be found in any of the psilocybin specific books.

[nrthlndr27]

This may sound a bit crazy, but has anybody ever tried moose poo for wood loving species? In winter, the primary diet of moose around my area consists of birch/willow twigs and willow bark. I could go around the back of my place and collect a 5 gallon bucket without alot of effort. In fact, I've got a pile of nuggets about 10 feet from my front door I still need to pick up...

Would the ruminant digestive system of a moose help free up the wood nutrients for the mycelium similar to what horses or cows do on a hay/grain diet for cubies? The thing with the moose diet though, is they tend to focus on the tender twigs and strip the bark off and don't eat the hard wood.

Just a thought...

[Orchidman]

I would try a piece of the moose poo just on the edge of the bed. Either they like it or they don't. I tried lots of different woods for my Ps cyanescens. I grow orchids so I have lots of different kinds and different sizes of bark and bark mixes and coconut chips and shredded coconut and aliflor and perlite and I even add unclumping kitty litter (baked clay) to preserve moisture. I want to try tree fern fibre as It's available for Orchid growers. I have a feeling they might just gobble it up.

The nice part about wood eaters is that they are so tough that after the first jar there is no more need for sterile conditions. So you can just scoop out a chunk of mycelium with a spoon (I still hold it under the hot water to kill most germs) and toss it into another container with another type of media and try it out. Maybe a small container of moose poo. Shove some into the potted plants and I'm thinking about shoving some into the sweepings from the bottom the parrot's cage where they will get seeds, casings and bird poo (maybe for the Pan subbalteatus). I'm very experimental and mushrooms seem fairly adaptable.

My best results so far have been with the following. I found wood chips at the Canadian Tire in the barbeque section for meat smokers. One brand was made up of sawdust compressed into pellets. The had various hardwoods to choose from but I chose maple as cyanescens does like it. Don't get Hickory as they really don't like it. I took them home and tried to crush the pellets but they were as hard as a rock. So I decided to soak them and all of a sudden they just practically exploded and within 3 minutes they had overflowed the bowl and were pouring out onto the counter. They expanded about a dozen times the size. Soak the sawdust over night and drain it and mix in 25% wheat bran. Steralize the jars and inject them. I used jelly jars as you are going to break up the mycelium anyway, so you just spoon out the sawdust. I buy the syringes from Sporelab which really saves a lot of work and hassle. The spores go for the bran first and quickly take to the maple chips. The mycelium is beautiful and strong and thick. I grew mine at 60f degrees in the basement and they grew fairly quickly and strong.

When the jars are collonized I transfer the mycellium to a small dark tote filled with Aspen Pet Litter that I get at Petsmart for $10.00 per huge bale. Both the cyanescens and the azurescens just love this stuff. It's so cheap and should be available at any pet store. They gobble it up right away and there is no need to do the cardboard stage. I just spoon out teaspoon sized little chunks and mix them whole into the Aspen Litter that I boil very briefly on the stove and cool. The litter is pre-cut into thin shavings and this gives a huge surface area for the weight of the wood. There are lots of humid air pockets for the mycellium to breath. After the mycelium hits the surface dig out a few of the strongest growing pieces with a sterile spoon and throw them into their own small container of Aspen Litter. Keep adding more litter and gradually increasing the size of their containers. These selections should give you the best mushrooms. I filled a small rubbermade tote 2/3 full and the cyanescens just ate it all up in no time and it was only 1/4 the size. You have to spray it and air it out. The mycellium doesn't seem to mind the water and it even grows up the side of the tote where the condensation is. I fed it some more wood shavings and put it outside in an aspen and bark bed when it was ready. I got about 10 nice shrooms last fall but I don't see any mycellium there this spring. I'm going to feed it some more bark and hope it survived the winter. There are huge maple trees in a row south of me and I just go down the back lane and snap the twigs off the smaller ones and they snap easily into small pieces. So I feed the beds lots of maple and aged beauty bark. I spread some bark every spring and compost the older bark for a year to get any resins out. I throw my used orchid bark on there and my hedge cuttings which are privet twigs. My beds are a smorgasborg of what I have and what I can get easily at a pet store or a garden center. I put a good sized maple log on top of the bed and the mushrooms grew out all around the log. Pet stores also have fine chips of fir bark for a humidifying lizard bedding which the cyanescens does tolerate but does not prefer if there is nothing else available to you. I'm definitely not going to go to a lumber yard begging for sawdust. No cedar or pine. So far they go for the aspen the best but they eat it up fast and you have to keep adding it. However, it's cheap and easy to get.

I made another bed for the azurescens but I lost it before I could put it out so now I have an extra bed. It's a couple of years old now and has a lot of broken down wood which the caerulipes likes. So I ordered a syringe of Ps caerulipes from Sporeworks today and am going to start them up for the bed, but because of their tolerance for warmer temperatures, they should be an easier wood eater for indoors. Hmmm. Bins of caerulipes on Aspen litter would be so easy. A simple two step process and move the bin from the basement to the upstairs to change the temperature and voila, mushrooms. Hopefully it will be that easy. Imagine, the caerulipes like hemp stalks they say. Maybe they'll like my mugwort stalks and they'll change the thujone into some mind expanding new chemical. It sounds like caerulipes is good and strong. I think one report said 2Xcubensis outdoors and 1.6Xcubensis indoors. Ooooo I'm getting excited. A new wood eater is coming. Imagine I've read they are fruiting right now outdoors and will keep on till September.

[Orchidman]

.

[xerimyco]

Orchidman! Wow! Welcome to Mycotopia! This is the best mycology hobbyist site by far.

When I saw your nic I thought "Wow, I wonder if thats the same guy who's posts I would read with great enjoyment on a different forum?" When I read the post I thought "Thats him!". Man, you are a great grower and writer. The few orchids I have now I got because of you. I really miss reading your posts over at that other site, do you think you're ever going to post there again? I hope so.

You are right about the aspen shavings- easy to colonize and hard to contaminate. Some woodlover spores will even germinate right on the unsterilized shavings and grow without contam till colonized, eliminating the initial step of making jars of sawdust/bran. It's slower, but works and is almost effortless.

I look forward to reading your further findings! I'm glad you are here!

[Orchidman]

Thanks xerimyco. It is me.

I decided to order the caerulipes last week from Sporelab, then I thought it would be a good idea if I googled up some info on it. There seems to be very little information about caerulipes online but I did find this site and this thread as well as Goody's wonderful grow report.

This year is El Nino so with El Nino here in Toronto we get a majority of cool cloudy weather and lots of rain. People complain we never had any summer only a couple of days. Sounds to me like perfect growing weather for establishing a cerulipes outdoor bed. On the hottest days just put a sprinkler upwind from the bed with a bit on the bed because evaperation cools. Even the shrubbery above the bed will turn into an air conditioner. In Acapulco they have huge cooling fountains in the park and if you sit downwind it is quite a lot cooler than upwind from the spray. Now I'll be searching my back lane for decomposing maple. I saw a beautiful 8" X 2 1/2 foot log a few doors down that has been sitting there for a couple of years. If I bring it home and chop it up with a hatchet I'll have some perfect food for the caerulipes. It seems like the caerulipes likes dead grass so I think I will top with composted sheep manurer. It's cheap and easily available. It's just processed grass 2-2-2 with the sand from the soil that comes from the sheep eating the grass roots. As the sand works into the bed it will give aeration and texture.

I don't want to get into the contraversy over the name as I know nothing. I don't even have the spores yet. I just know that if I call it caerulipes, everybody knows what I am talking about. Let the knowlegable people fight over the name. However, once I get the spores and get out my mini-field microscope and start taking notes, then I might get into it.

I've been putting beauty bark in the garden for years so if the mycellium takes the bark, I will have quite a batch of magic mushrooms. A huge batch of Ps cyanescens at one end and a huge patch of caerulipes in the middle and at the entrance a small patch of Pan subbalteatus (they're so cute). I must order some more Ps cyanescens to make sure the other bed survived. We didn't have much snow this past winter. The bed is already there so innoculating it isn't that hard. It makes sense to order a syringe peridically and re introduce new genes.

[Hippie3]

Originally Posted by strangegem23

...Are you planning on going PF tek to start your woodlovers? This is what FOAF did (hippie's jars did the trick!) and he had fantastic results...

that is good to hear.

[Myc]

a list you'll be interested in.