Morel and morel excited!

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by greysRDbest

heres a few links for buying dried...some are pricey

Dried Morel Mushrooms @ Earthy.com

Oregon Mushrooms

Melissa's Buy Produce Online Specialty Produce & Gift Basket *- Dried Morel Mushrooms

Pricey is right!

[TheJackal]

An upcoming optional step is:

"Step 22.

CASING (optional): Layer casing soil evenly to a depth of 1/2". Allow 7-10 days for mycelium to run through the casing."

Thinking of PCing some potting soil at 15 PSI for 1.5 hours to use as the casing layer.

Any comments or advice?

Thanks in advance!

Jackal

morels like leaf litter...out west pine needle duff....so i dont see why not. i wonder why this is "optional". you would think it is either part of the program or not?????

[TheJackal]

This is new ground for me, so it is like the blind man talking to his deaf ho!

Will see if any of the experts at the shroomery have any comments on this.

[TheJackal]

A comment from the shroomery is that the black morels will not fruit under the method used, as the method was for yellow morels.

Can't we all (black and yellow morels) just get along?

Are not the black and yellow morels found in same habitat and under the same conditions?

Has anyone gotten black morels to fruit indoors?

Accordingly, all black morel fruiting vibes appreciated!

Cheers!

Jackal

Originally Posted by TheJackal

Are not the black and yellow morels found in same habitat and under the same conditions?

i personally have picked both black and yellow morels together within a few feet of one anothe.in a good year...the week when the blacks start to fade and the yellows start to pop it is not uncommon to find them fruiting very close to one another. I have observed them forming relationships with some of the same trees even....ash trees in particular host both blacks and yellows.
black morels fruit at 48f or above....greys and yellows start at 52-54 degrees ground temperature.
I think youre doing a fine job..no worries.

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by greysRDbest

i personally have picked both black and yellow morels together within a few feet of one anothe.in a good year...the week when the blacks start to fade and the yellows start to pop it is not uncommon to find them fruiting very close to one another. I have observed them forming relationships with some of the same trees even....ash trees in particular host both blacks and yellows.
black morels fruit at 48f or above....greys and yellows start at 52-54 degrees ground temperature.
I think youre doing a fine job..no worries.

Thanks for your great expertise and vote of confidence!

I will plan on visiting with you and crazy1 in the near future!

Cheers!

Jackal

[TheJackal]

From SporeWorks : "Alternative methods recommend mixing wood ash with the sclerotia as black morels are often associated with burn sites. This was not attempted with this strain."

How about burning some of the apple wood chips to mix with the potting soil in the casing layer?

[Lazlo]

I added some crushed up hardwood charcoal to my last jars thinking it may help with sclerotia production. I'm not too certain if it did or didn't.

I have never been able to figure out where the tray of grass seed comes into play. Why stack that tray on top of the substrate tray? Are there holes in the bottom of the grass seed tray?

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by Lazlo

I added some crushed up hardwood charcoal to my last jars thinking it may help with sclerotia production. I'm not too certain if it did or didn't.

I have never been able to figure out where the tray of grass seed comes into play. Why stack that tray on top of the substrate tray? Are there holes in the bottom of the grass seed tray?

The substrate tray is the one that has the holes that also serve to drain it after the 36 hour downpour after the winter stage. The rye grass tray sits underneath the substrate tray and is quickly colonized thru the holes and used to feed the sclerotia in the substrate tray. Then the rye grass tray is removed and the substrate tray is placed in fridge simulating lack of nutrients in winter mode I suppose.

[The Other]

Originally Posted by TheJackal

The substrate tray is the one that has the holes that also serve to drain it after the 36 hour downpour after the winter stage. The rye grass tray sits underneath the substrate tray and is quickly colonized thru the holes and used to feed the sclerotia in the substrate tray. Then the rye grass tray is removed and the substrate tray is placed in fridge simulating lack of nutrients in winter mode I suppose.

This is a very interesting post thanks for taking the time. I had the same question, I saw that in the list of steps and I was confused by it. So the sclerotia feeds off of the rye grass through the holes in the bottom of the top tray? How does it do this, does the sclerotia grow out of the holes in the top tray?

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by The Other

This is a very interesting post thanks for taking the time. I had the same question, I saw that in the list of steps and I was confused by it. So the sclerotia feeds off of the rye grass through the holes in the bottom of the top tray? How does it do this, does the sclerotia grow out of the holes in the top tray?

No prob! The sclerotia send out little feeler thingies (replace with scientific term here) thru the holes in the substrate tray and which form a network that feed the sclerotia from the rye grass tray. Very spooky, almost Aleins like.

In fact, the rye grass tray is now almost completely colonized and forming more sclerotia to be used for the next life cycle.

Cheers!

Jackal

PS: Per Grey, decided not to use burnt apple wood chips in the upcoming casing layer step.

I never really gave you a reson for not using burnt apple woodchips....i dont hink it would actually hurt but I also dont think it would help. The usda pdf explains burn morels as more a phenomenon of a sterilized and nutrified substrate first colonized by the morel mycelium... pp 34 illustrates mycelium taking advantage of necromass after a fire.
pp 43 paragraph one also indicates that soils heated by vulcanism are just as responsive to morels fruiting as actually burned soils...
and information ive gathered from pickers in burn zones over the years also points to confirmation of this- the needle zone that is marginally burned but hot enough to cause trees to drop all their needles without actually killing the trees often produce the heaviest flushes for that particular burn area.
hope this helps.....my fingers have been crossed so long i think they may be permanently fused in that position.

[The Other]

Originally Posted by TheJackal

No prob! The sclerotia send out little feeler thingies (replace with scientific term here) thru the holes in the substrate tray and which form a network that feed the sclerotia from the rye grass tray. Very spooky, almost Aleins like.

In fact, the rye grass tray is now almost completely colonized and forming more sclerotia to be used for the next life cycle.

Cheers!

Jackal

PS: Per Grey, decided not to use burnt apple wood chips in the upcoming casing layer step.

Cool thanks. How long till they get to go into the fruiting chamber?

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by The Other

Cool thanks. How long till they get to go into the fruiting chamber?

Here is the timeline to date:

07/17: BM substrate into winter mode for 2-4 weeks (7/31-8/14)
07/14: BM substrate looking good
06/24: BM substrate tray appears to be colonizing with white fuzz growing from sclerotia into substrate
06/10: BM spawn run 4-6 weeks (7/8-7/22)
05/05: innoced jar and mycobag with BM LC, incubating 4-6 weeks (6/2-6/16)
04/29: black morel (BM) LC started

May let it go in winter mode a few more days before next step of 36 hours of simulated rain followed by casing run and fruiting run.

The end is near and with the shroom Gods willing some fruit will come. My main motivation is rebutting the nay sayers that said 1000 to 1 that I should just give up as it could not be done.

[TheJackal]

In preparation for fruiting, sterilized a quart of potting soil at 180-200F with microwave and to be used for the 1/2" of casing for the substrate.

[TheJackal]

"Remove[d] bagged tray from refrigeration.
Remove[d] substrate tray from bag and plac[ed] in fruiting chamber.
Slowly saturat[ing] substrate with sterile (65-70°F) [distilled] water
at a rate of 1.5-2.5 [not measured] fluid ounces/hr/square foot of substrate surface area for 12-[36] hours.
[Will] [a]llow substrate to drain completely (for about 24 hours) [thereafter]."

Added lid rings to keep substrate tray from sitting in water.

Took substrate tray out of fridge and placed on rings.

Set rain v 2.0 to 1 minute on and 5 minutes off duty cycle.

Cheers!

Jackal

[TheJackal]

"Allow[ing] substrate to drain completely (for about 24 hours)."

Tomorrow will add casing layer for casing spawn run of 7 to 10 days (8/6-8/16) followed by primordia formation 3 to 7 days thereafter (8/9-8/24). This presents a problem, as we are going on vacation 8/17 to 8/24.

Not sure what to do, except extend casing spawn run by another week (8/16-8/24).

All suggestion appreciated!

[TheJackal]

Another question is what temp should I use for black morel casing spawn run. The Sporeworks site says:

"Colonization/Fruiting Temperatures: 70-75F/40-60F
Sclerotia Formation Temperature: 60-65F"

I did the substrate colonization run at 70F and thinking of doing the casing run at same temp.

The screwed up part is that they are out of the fridge or winter mode and at 70F after 36 hours of rain right now per the mushroom people tek, which may be all F'd up any ways.

Very confused at this point as to how to best proceed next.

A detailed temp, RH, rain, light, etc. timeline for black morels would be most helpful.

[TheJackal]

"CASING (optional): Layer[ed] casing soil evenly to a depth of 1/2". Allow[ing] 7-10 days for mycelium to run through the casing.
Air temp 65 - 70°F.
Filtered fresh air exchanges at 1 - 2 per hour.
Keep[ing] dark."

Assumed that casing run should be at same temp as colonization run. The poor black morel mycelium is probably very confused right about now (as am I).

[Lazlo]

I prolly would've cased it, allowed some hyphae to run up to the casing's surface and then would've started the rain action. That's just me though.

Looking good none the less.

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by Lazlo

I prolly would've cased it, allowed some hyphae to run up to the casing's surface and then would've started the rain action. That's just me though.

Looking good none the less.

Yeah, should not have put so much faith in the published teks and patents, and done more research to come up with my own timeline for the black morels. Worse case I end up with a lot of sclerotia. The lower fruiting temps for the black morels will pose a problem, unless I can modify a refrigerator or something.

[TheJackal]

These bad boys are incredible! Two days later and look at this:

cool

[Workman]

In the only partial indoor success I have seen with the exact strain you are using observed pins at around 70F (which then aborted). The parameters at the sporeworks site are from GGMM for black morels and may not apply perfectly to this particular strain. With luck you may see pins any day now.

[myco-curious]

I'm loving following this thread... if you've ever done the research, and genetically, everything suggests that they are genetically disadventagious to survive an ice age - which means they've only been around since the last ice age. :shrug: I give up, lol...they're cool

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by Workman

In the only partial indoor success I have seen with the exact strain you are using observed pins at around 70F (which then aborted). The parameters at the sporeworks site are from GGMM for black morels and may not apply perfectly to this particular strain. With luck you may see pins any day now.

Thanks for the intel! Maybe the aborts were due the high fruiting temp of 70F.

I will see if I can get them to fruit per Greys advice closer to the 45-50F range. Will have to do some more inventing though to get RH and temp control for those temps, as my a/c greenhouse can only get 65F at best. Will try rigging up the thermoelectric cooler with el lights, cool mist, ultrasonic, etc., to see if that will do the trick.

This experiment is getting harder every day.

Cheers!

Jackal

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by myco-curious

I'm loving following this thread... if you've ever done the research, and genetically, everything suggests that they are genetically disadventagious to survive an ice age - which means they've only been around since the last ice age. :shrug: I give up, lol...they're cool

Thanks!

[TheJackal]

Latest plan is to let substrate with casing fully colonize, and put it back into winter mode for a few weeks, with more rain (per Lazlo's suggestion), and attempt at fruiting at 45-55F thereafter.

[TheJackal]

Cased substrate back in fridge and in winter mode! Hopefully, the morel mycelium will tolerate my newbness.

[Hippie3]

how long until you try fruiting ?

[TheJackal]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

how long until you try fruiting ?

I have not gotten around to setting up thermoelectric cooler as cold temperature greenhouse. The casing is accordingly fully colonized and when I get un-busy with my new job will jump on the cold temp cooler modification (hopefully in a couple of weeks).

For now, here is a pic of the substrate in winter mode at 38F: