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FAQ : Frequently Asked Questions General/Basic knowledge


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  • Go Back   Mycotopia Web Forums > Deep Knowledge > The new Vaults > FAQ : Frequently Asked Questions

     
     
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    Old 02-22-05, 02:07   #1 (permalink)
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    Talking A More Understandable PF TEK guide

    I feel that i should post a better guide to the PF TEK so that many of the questions that newbies have can be answered by looking here. Also, i hope this will iron out any misinformation that people may have gained through the forums as well. I mean i know i did things that were suggested to me when i first started that were not the most effective ways. This thread will describe what my experiences have shown me as being the most effective ways to do the PF TEK as well as a bit of understanding about what exactly is going on with this method of cultivation, and some tips. (I would however like to cite Professor Fanaticus before i present this information)

    GOALS: This tek is used to cultivate mushrooms in the home and is considered to be a great starting step for people to learn the hobby of mushroom cultivation/mycology.

    MATERIALS NEEDED:

    VERMICULITE:
    This can be found at many hardware stores/garden centers/nurseries and is used for moisture retention.....typically it is used for plants/seedlings but obviously it is great for mushroom cultivation too. It is relatively cheap ranging from 4-8 dollars for a 16 dry quart bag, and price decreases with an increase quantity.......

    BROWN RICE:
    This is pretty simple to understand. Brown rice is a grain that supplies nutrients for our fungus. The kind you want to get is LONG GRAIN BROWN RICE. I get mine at the grocer but many get theirs from a health store (organic). It has been my expereince that the grocery store brand works nicely, but you can also use uncles bens, etc. Just make sure it is 100 percent Long Grain Brown Rice, no additives.

    Water:
    Many use distilled or spring, i use tap.

    WIDE MOUTH Canning/Mason Jars:
    These are jars used with a pressure cooker mainly for food canning by old ladies and such. You can find them online or at walmart or grocer etc. You'll want to get WIDE MOUTH (for ease in removing your cake). The brands that are preffered are BALL and KERR and you use 1/2 PINTS for pf cakes.......and 12 packs of these jars usually are about $7-$8

    Pressure Cooker/Canner
    This is a very important item for you aspiring mushroom growers. It is used commonly for pressure cooking foods. But for us it is used to sterilze many things. Why do we need to sterilize things? Because when growing mushrooms inside the home contamination can occur, for example harmful and harmless bacterias, harmless molds that kill your projects, harmful but more rare molds that are dangerous to us, any number of things can be considered contam (refer to site archives for more information). How does the sterilization occur? Well, it occurs by high levels of heat. The pressure cooker/canner is a setup with a top that locks and allows a small amount of water to heat up and create vapor pressure that will increase the temperature inside the cooker/canner that can not be accomplished very consitantly or safely in the home otherwise. The pressure cooker has a guage the reads up to 20 PSI(pounds per square inch), once the pressure is high enough inside the cooker/canner the arm will start to move up towards 15psi (max for our needs) from zero psi (at this point the internal temp of the PC is 212F for each increase in psi you add 3 degrees F to 212F so at 15 psi you will have an internal temp of 257 degrees F. Now you will sterilize everything at 15 psi for around 45 minutes (some do less time, some do more time) By doing this you will sterilze your substrate (material shrooms gain nutrients and h20 from and grow off).......without using the pc everything will contam. Ohh ya, these are kinda expensive but very necessary and worth it. Depending on the size you want, your looking at $50-$300(the higher priced ones are quite large and usually all american brand)......All American is the best but PRESTO is cheaper an works great, mirro is another brand used etc.

    Coffee Grinder:
    You will need one of these to grind you brown rice up....i like Braun and they are around $15-$20

    MISC- you will also need foil, johnson and johnson tape, bleach, mixing bowl, spoon, wisk before you even get to PC (pressure cooking stage)

    **After PC you'll need, spores/syringes, alcohol swabs, lysol, glovebox if desired

    Last edited by python : 02-28-05 at 01:05.
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    Old 02-22-05, 03:49   #2 (permalink)
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    Overview:

    This can be construed as the basic beginner tek for growing mushrooms in the home. However, it is only one of many teks for mushroom cultivation. It is simple, and when done properly, one is pretty much assured fruits.

    What is going on/How does it work?
    Basically, mushrooms grow at certain temperatures and off certain substrates depending on the species. Mushrooms drop spores (which can be thought of as seeds) It is these little flecks that contain the genetic material/chromosomes that are needed to create new fungi. What happens is when a sterile spore is added to a sterile substrate (in our case for this tek--- the rice/verm/water mix A.K.A. BRF) the spores then germinate and divide and eventually form mycelium which is white and usually looks like it has strands or snowflakes (of course the life cycle is much more complicated but i dont want to scare off anyone) The mycelium is a great sign that shows that the spores have germinated becasue they have found nutrients. The Mycelium is a network of fungal hyphae(formed from the spore divisions etc) which connect together and colonize the substrate(i.e. they grow over everything that provides them food). Once they mycelium colonizes the substrate the cake can be birthed(taken out of jar) and then fruited (allowing mushrooms to grow, although this can even be done Invitro/in the jar. Colonization and fruiting have different temperatures for best results. Fruiting can be done easily in a chamber that can be made cheaply. The fruiting chamber or terrarium will have to maintain a relative humidity(RH) of 100 percent for best results. Also, since the growing will be done inside, the terrarium will need fresh air exchanges to prevent contams (namely cobweb/trich) Just so you know, outdoors, there are no contams. Again all of this work should be done as clean as possible with yourself being the #1 method of bringing contams into the grow area. So if possible i recommend showering and wearing clean clothes for work. Dust masks are nice too. This tek is great for cubensis which are easily grown and widely studied.
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    Old 02-22-05, 04:08   #3 (permalink)
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    The TEK:

    OK so the first thing you are gonna do is gather all of your supplies.

    1.) Get mixing bowl, spoon, wisk, water, vermiculite, long grain brown rice, and your jars (i like to soak my jars and lids in bleach/water for 10-30 minutes before i use then i rinse them well and wash).

    2.) With everything in front of you, you are ready to create your substrate.

    THE MAXIMUM FRUITING FORMULA FROM PF: 2 PARTS VERMICULITE
    1 PART Brown Rice FLOUR
    1 PART WATER

    So basically i use 1/2 cup of verm with 1/4 cup of Brown Rice (which you grind to a flour using the coffee grinder) and 1/4 cup of water per jar..........However i usually make enough for 12 jars at one time so I put 6 cups verm, 3 cups brown rice flour (BRF), and 3 cups water. I have found that this formula actually makes 1.1 jar's worth, so if you make mix for 12 jars you'll have enough for 13.

    So make up your mix........for example we will make the mix for 12 jars(since thats how they are sold)

    Get your verm......this is some I put in a garbage bag before use (for ease)....measure out the amount you need and make it level on top for accuracy. And then add to bowl.

    FOR 12 jars add 6 cups verm or follow the formula for the amount of jars you have.
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    Old 02-22-05, 04:14   #4 (permalink)
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    Then i like to grind my flour up, right before use.......so grind some up in the coffee grinder and measure it out accurately like everything else

    Again if we follow the 12 jar example you'll need 3 cups of BRF

    add it to the dry verm in the bowl....

    first pick is the BRF on top of the dry verm in the mixing bowl........second is a coffee grinder
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    Old 02-22-05, 04:18   #5 (permalink)
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    Then to save time i like to mix the BRF and the dry verm nicely with a spoon before i add water.......i have found it makes the mix more unifrom and easier to do....

    so make it look like this before adding your water......
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    Old 02-22-05, 04:20   #6 (permalink)
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    Then add your water, be it distilled/spring/or tap....

    following our example for 12 jars we will need to add 3 cups of water......and measure accurately........i like to pour the water evenly over the mix and get the sides nicely too....
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    Old 02-22-05, 04:23   #7 (permalink)
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    Then i do a quick scrape of the sides of the mixing bowl with a spoon and finish mixing the verm/water/BRF with a wisk.......and make sure it looks uniform, no big patches of flour etc......when your done it will look kinda cool and you'll know its mixed nicely......

    heres a pic of ready-to-jar mix
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    Old 02-22-05, 04:29   #8 (permalink)
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    then you are going to get your jars ready.....lids off and ready to load with the BRF mix....no here is where the differences with other people start to come into play.......some say to not pack the mix so its light and fluffy, but In My Opinion (IMO) i think a little bit of packing is necessary to eliminate any air pockets etc withing the jar......so i fill the jar loosely up to the top with the mix with using a spoon (DO NOT PACK DOWN).....after all the jars are loaded i like to tap them lightly on a table and slide em back forth, and repeat a couple times until the mix is under the screw threads on the jar (you'll see).......i feel this creates a very nice jar with no air pockets etc....not to mention giving more nutrients to our mycelium because more mix gets into the jar.

    here is a pic of the loaded jar before my tap /slide method.......you can see they are nearly filled to the top
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    Old 02-22-05, 04:31   #9 (permalink)
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    After you get the BRF mix under the threads of the jar you will take your thumb and run it around the open area inside the jar (should be from the screw threads and up, about 3/4 inch) to get any moisture/BRF mix off........
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    Old 02-22-05, 04:38   #10 (permalink)
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    The reason we use the thumb to clean the top inside of the jar is because we are going to add dry vermiculite on top of the mix in the jar. We do this because the dry verm will act as a contam barrier during colinization...without this contam barrier, the air that gets into the jar could contact the mycelium and cause contams, so this dry verm layer is essential and works quite well if you ask me. If we dont clean around the inside of the jar.....the mycelium may find enough nutrients or moisture to colonize into the dry verm layer a bit which brings us closer to the contam laiden air......which we don't want......

    so fill the rest of the jars all the way up with dry verm, and even it off.......

    here are some pics.....first is adding dry verm on top, second is a ready to cap jar that has been finished with the dry verm........
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    Old 02-22-05, 04:59   #11 (permalink)
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    after the jar is complete i like to work on the lids.....

    THIS CAN BE DONE BEFOREHAND---- The lids need to have 4 equidistant holes in them.......i like to put mine right inside the periphery of the lid (or right where the ridge/dip starts) (NOTE: you do not have to have four holes, some use one in the center but the difference is that more innoculation points = faster colonization) (NOTE:Innoculation is when you inject you spore solution into the jars with your syringe)

    So with your holed up lids you can do a couple of things (this is the last step before sterilization in the PC).....most recommend you place the lids on the jars (some say put them on upside down and some say regular....i have noticed no difference so i recommend regular which creates a better seal because of the rubber) and put the lid-bands on and cover them with foil(to keep moisture out of the jars, which is a important thing because a change in moisture content could ruin your grow or cause contams), and then put them in your PC for 45 minutes or so at 15PSI (READ DIRECTIONS BEFORE USING A PC)

    However, in my experience (IME) I have found the foil to be insufficient for keeping moisture out of jars.....i have foiled, double foiled with rubber bands etc, and moisture will still get in, or residual moisture will form inside the lid......the biggest concern being that the dry verm barrier is getting a bit wet, and just a little moisture will turn it from contam barrier to open-field(however, jars usually stay fairly contam free even if this happens but why not be perfect!.......(NOTE:you'll know if this happened if when you birth your jar, the dry verm layer is colonized)

    So anyways, i recommend you use Johnson and Johnson First Aid Waterproof Tape (found at drug stores $3-$4 a roll) I like the 1/2 inch kind........and cover every hole in the lids with it (once you do your first one, take it under the faucet and see how nice it works.....).......

    once the holes are taped cover the jars with their lids and lid-band them down nice and snug....

    first pic is of one lid with holes, second is of 12 lids with holes, third is of the tape, fourth is of the taped lids
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    Last edited by python : 02-22-05 at 05:30.
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    Old 02-22-05, 05:03   #12 (permalink)
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    Then its off to the PC for sterilization.......READ INSTRUCTION FIRST

    I also add a double layer of foil over my jars with the taped lids and NO WATER GETS IN AT ALL!

    also, do not wait more than a day to pc your jars as they are not sterilized yet and could start growing contams like bacteria or trich(green mold).......the PC will kill almost everything in the jars but if something like trich is showing its green spores (yes molds have spores too), it will probably live through the PC and cause major problems for your grow......

    After PC sterilization, jars can be good for quite some time, id recommend no longer than 2 weeks but some can easily keep for a month or two......id just do em as fast as possible because the moisture content will change over time.....

    This is a picture of a presto PC and a jar covered with foil
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    Last edited by python : 02-22-05 at 05:12.
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    Old 02-22-05, 05:14   #13 (permalink)
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    Now the pc is gonna have water in the bottom that gets hot so i like to keep more than enough in it, so if something bad happens (i.e. i forget about it, it doesnt dry out and blow or something).........so i like to put some foil balls under the canning rack to keep the bottom jars out of the water (remember we want no moisture getting into jars).....

    Then i add my jars to capacity, lock the lid in place, and turn on the heat

    I watch it as it rises from 1 psi to 15 psi

    As it hits 15 psi the weight on top jiggles/hisses a bit.........you dont really want too much of this at all because moisture is escaping the pc and possible your jars...so i PC at about 14.8 psi and the weight stays very calm, makes a tiny bit of noise/movement but you'll notice the difference........by doing this....the house stays free from the BRF smell (you'll see) and the jars doen't turn dark from being over-cooked....instead they come out looking great.......after 45-50 minutes i turn off the machine and allow the jars to cool......

    here is a pic of the foil balls in the bottom, a pic of the canning rack on top of the balls, and some jars in the PC....
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    Old 02-22-05, 05:16   #14 (permalink)
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    ohh ya, i have become prone to carefully removing the foil lids and reusing them to save money and lots of time..........
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    Old 02-22-05, 05:17   #15 (permalink)
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    Here is a picture of the PC with the lid on and then one of it at low PSI and another pic of it at the desired PSI
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    Old 02-22-05, 05:24   #16 (permalink)
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    Thumbs up

    So like i said, you have to let the pc cool and the jars must cool.......however i like to take my jars out and remove the foil lids as soon as possible becasue there is some moisture inside the foil always, so i want that to dry out......and i set them aside for a day but usually about a week until i use them....(tape stays on until innoculation)

    This method provides me with nice even jars that have not adjusted in formula or moisture, and that maintain their dry verm layer/contam layer....

    after the jars are cooled its off to innoculation which is another step worth going over in depth...but ill add that soon, along with info on incubation, and birthing and fruiting....

    again this info is also elsewhere but many times people give different information and you never know where info is coming from so this is how i do it....use it if you will, just trying to clean up some repetitive newbie questions that could be easily answered with a well written, easy to understand TEK.....

    More to come soon....

    Last edited by python : 02-22-05 at 05:33.
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    Old 02-22-05, 05:53   #17 (permalink)
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    Excellent write up. I'd like to see some growth pics and results! Keep us updated.
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    Old 02-22-05, 12:40   #18 (permalink)
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    Well, okay sinthetic, i will add some result pics at the end.......as a cherry on top
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    Old 02-22-05, 13:42   #19 (permalink)
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    very nice, keep going all the way through, innoc process, fruiting, harvesting, drying.
    im sure there are a lot of new members who will find this useful. just like we did when we read pfs tek for the first time.
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    Old 02-22-05, 16:01   #20 (permalink)
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    I plan to do the entire walkthrough......just takes some time.....
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    Old 02-22-05, 17:41   #21 (permalink)
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    "for each increase in psi you add 3 degrees F"

    Really?
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    Old 02-22-05, 17:54   #22 (permalink)
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    very nice write up. even i could follow it lol
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    Old 02-22-05, 17:58   #23 (permalink)
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    A most helpful tip for a newbie is the one where you described raising the pc tray up a bit by using balls of foil. On my first grow attempt, my jars, closest to the bottom became watterlogged because they sat too low in the pc.

    Thanks for taking the time to put in these extra details.
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    Old 02-22-05, 18:13   #24 (permalink)
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    well i am glad this is helping some........i will finish the innoculation part tonight or tomorrow, and the birthing and fruiting parts in time.......picture walkthrough all the way......
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    Old 02-22-05, 18:25   #25 (permalink)
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    I would suggest the use of a fork instead of a spoon in mixing and loading the substrate.
    It leaves the mix light and airy, checks the moisture content and prevents clumps, and forces
    you to be more careful in loading the jars so you don't get as much contam of the inside rim.
    I would also suggest using a paper towel over your thumb in cleaning the inside edge of the jar.
    Just an extra step of caution I know but oh well
    I haven't read your writeup in detail but in skimming it looks good.
    Sometimes a different point of view will help the understanding and improve odds of success.
    Thanks for helping
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    Old 02-22-05, 18:26   #26 (permalink)
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    Well, actually, it didn't help me cuz I didn't have this info for my first grow attempt! But it definitely would have helped if I did. Keep up the good work.
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    Old 02-22-05, 20:30   #27 (permalink)
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    i have used paper towels and and regular thumb for the inside of the jar where the dry verm goes, with no difference in result........

    and as far as making the mix more aerated........i did this the first couple times and it took me like a month for full colonization......1 time at 80 degrees exactly and another at room temp 65-75(actually this colonized faster).......(you probably missed this part Imok) I use a spoon to loosen the BRF mix in the bowl and then i mix evenly with a WISK which has got to better than a fork. Additonally i have found that if you fill the jars up almost all the way then shake and tap the jar till the mix goes under the jar threads you get a very, very even jar ......but more compacted then what you like Imok.........also, folks, if you read the pf tek more elaborately.....he mentions that this is how he did it (well he Packed It Down with a fork or so), also if you look at PF formula 1/2 cup verm, 1/4 cup BRF, 1/4 cup water (FOR EACH JAR)---there is no way no are going to fit all of it into the jar without a bit of settling/tapping/packing.......actually even with my method i still get about 1.1-1.2 jars out of the mix for one jar.......leaving it loose gives me almost 1.6 -2 jars from the mix that is supposed to be for one jar....

    now i am not saying that one way is tremendously better or anything, but if you think about it....you will be suppling more nutrients and less air pockets for your jars, it might take a tiny bit longer for colonization my way, or it might be just as fast or faster, but i believe the end result would be a better one.........

    I feel i should add again that this is just one of many methods of doing the PF tek......just like growing cannabis, there is always going to be different views......and the people must try different methods until they find what they like...so people, try diferent methods and find what you like best.......but IME, the tape(for moisture blocking) is the biggest factor usually forgotten....the minor things like mentioned above usually play very little into the outcome IME......

    Last edited by python : 02-22-05 at 20:45.
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    Old 02-22-05, 21:56   #28 (permalink)
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    Quote:
    suggest using a paper towel over your thumb in cleaning the inside edge of the jar.
    i use those antibacterial wet wipes, chlorox brand.
    very nice.
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    Last edited by Hippie3 : 02-27-05 at 23:40.
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    Old 02-22-05, 22:27   #29 (permalink)
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    very nice work, python.
    you'll make a fine mod here
    once we figure out how that
    works on this new board software.
    we tried earlier but hit a wall.
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    Last edited by Hippie3 : 04-20-05 at 07:12.
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    Old 02-22-05, 22:27   #30 (permalink)
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