Potency [merged]

I tried a gram of old powdered shroom from the freezer this morning. I swear the stuff is more potent than when I first put it in the freezer 2 years ago. This is the second time I tried some of my "ancient lost magic freezer shroom powder"(theres another thread somewhere in here about that) and this time wasn't as strong as the first time...I knew what to expect, but I am amazed at the potency of one gram of what began as average strength shroom. The visual potency of it I would say at least is triple but the stimulant effect is almost not existent. Usually one gram of shroom just gives me the stimulation with weak visuals. Is there any other research on 2 year and older shrooms being consumed? Am I nuts thinking they are stronger with age? Or am I just nuts?

[vp7]

I have heard of other similar accounts. It really is fascinating, and I would love to know what's going on.

The entire character of the trip is different with the old shrooms. Much smoother on the body and just as intense on the head if not more so. I wonder if enzymes are still converting chemicals even in the shrooms dried and frozen state.

I'm gonna try another gram this morning so I can watch the Sunrise and start the day. I wan't to make sure there is a consistancy in dose. When I first found the powder my best friend was with me so I gave him an ounce figuring it had gone to shit anyway. Man, is he a happy camper now, but he made the same mistake I did by taking too much the first time thinking it had degraded in potency LOL

[hydrodad]

send me some magic powder

[fender]

I allways keep some in the freezer(sealed with CO2 and desiccant), and kept a strain just as potent as the day it was harvested for up to 10 months.
but I have never seen an increase in potency.
however, I learn something every day so keep us posted.

[space_ghost]

This is true! Not only do they seem more potent, but that characteristics of the trip seem improved too...this is confirmed by several people I know as well!

[Lazlo]

This is an interesting thread. I had some Hawaiians sealed up in a autoclave bag from a couple years ago that i found hidden in my china cabinet. I was so surprised to find them but i didn't think they would be all that great anymore. So we had a garage building party at a friends house so i brought them along to share to everybody that helped out. Man, those fuckin things were damn good! I certainly was shocked that they kept that long. As far as them getting stronger, I don't know. But they certainly didn't get weaker.

Part of this has to be the method of storage. I think the best case scenario is cracker dry in a nice vacuum sealed pouch (like FoodSaver or thicker plastic). Putting them in the freezer is likely a small help but getting them REALLY dry is key. Little sandwich bags and even ziplocks are slightly pourous and allow gas exchange after a while. Not sure if they can get more potent, but I think you figured out how to keep them tip top condition for YEARS!!

[Lazlo]

Yeah. I built a box that has screened shelves with an exhaust fan for bathrooms. The inlet on the bottom of the box has a dessicant filter that i made so the air is crisp dry that goes into it. Works like charm. 2 days they're dry as a bone. Vacuum seel for long term storage. I couldn't believe those Hawaiians were still that good after so long.

I know that the potency of cubenis mushrooms is generally the same, but differs here and there. Now does potency differences in cubenis' actually make a noticable difference during the experience? Will you actually notice a difference, or not at all..? Thanks

[cutty]

I think its personal preference but I do prefer the buzz of some strains more than others.I find some cubies can be either a mellow or a hyper buzz effect.

[felixdgr81]

For me, observing that some cubies seem to provide a speed buzz and others a mellow buzz, it comes down to potency per gram. I have found that some take just a bit more to get you where you want to go, when comparing from strain to strain, but in the end its all pretty much the same to me.

can anyone vouch for better potency when grown on straw / dung instead of grain?? I am aware that the fruits are bigger, but I am interested in strength

I have heard ( and have no personal experience w/ bulk so don't take my word for it) that when they're grown on grain and picked early they have the most potency. Why, I can only guess; but I think when certain plants/fungi are grown in less than optimal conditions they produce higher % of active alkyloids. Someomnne more knowlegeable than I please clarify

[trippinvegan]

most strains seem to be the same to me. the only strain that i noticed a difference was Hawaiians. they were pretty mellow. but im not saying that all Hawaiians are like this. just my batch.

I know that the one's I got from an outdoor patch of compost were by far superior to the same strain on popcorn. Too bad I gave em away instead of cloning them and eating em myself, hopefully some more will pop up there this spring.
I like it when I can can get off like acid almost on one little shroom, my stomach can't take 5 grams of dried fruit. the fact that they were outdoors may have something to do with it, though. they were much more dense than the popcorn fruits so they are a little heavier than the indoor shroom of the same proportions, these stems were really solid and tough.

[Lazlo]

Don't hold me to this. Please!!! But some years ago i heard a guy say at the Nook that cubies develope a chemical when they feel threatened my contamination. That chemical is the reason that your stomach gets upset. Now that's just what i've heard! Maybe Rodger or Hip could let us know the facts of this rumor. But it does seem like out door cubies are a lot cleaner on the stomach.

[Hippie3]

Originally Posted by owen

can anyone vouch for better potency when grown on straw / dung instead of grain?? I am aware that the fruits are bigger, but I am interested in strength

actually many say that straw-grown tends to be a bit weaker
but if that's true, it's not much

Originally Posted by Hippie3

actually many say that straw-grown tends to be a bit weaker
but if that's true, it's not much

I agree totally.

I've heard that psylocibin(sp) is a natural stomach irritant and that's why you get the tummy aches...but I don't know what I'm talking about either...

[sinthetic]

Originally Posted by thafunkyone

I've heard that psylocibin(sp) is a natural stomach irritant and that's why you get the tummy aches...but I don't know what I'm talking about either...

grinding mushrooms into a powder and filling gelcaps or chocolate eases my tummy tension

[anticheffy]

Tea works for me ....

[destroy_erase_improve]

Originally Posted by thafunkyone

I've heard that psylocibin(sp) is a natural stomach irritant and that's why you get the tummy aches...but I don't know what I'm talking about either...

im not too sure about that either funky.
the reason why i dont really know is becuase a few members on here have complained about stomach problems, but when they did extractions of the magic they said they had zero.

If I just eat a little bite befor I dose everything is A-OK. No tummy probs.

[Hippie3]

i suspect much of the stomach ache is from the fiber
now some nausea/vertigo is from the high itself.

[perrch01]

I've found that as long as I eat with them I can usually avoid the nausea. Pizzaria pretzel combos do me just right, whenever I make tea I feel pretty sick for the first 30-40 minutes, but after that I'm fine

[Karphophorez]

Are there any teks out there, or is anyone experimenting with any teks that have found to generically increase the potency of psilocybin content, rather than or aswell as psilocin content? This being that psilocybin is more stable than the rapidly oxidized psilocin, to produce a 'more stable' product?

I have seen the study by Gartz, introducing Tryptamine HCL into the process, but this seems to increase the levels of psilocin drastically, whilst the levels of psilocybin are much reduced.....

I have also seen the Alien substrate formula, using quinoa as a substrate supplement in that it contains a higher ratio of tryptophan. Did the tryptophan increase the levels of psilocin or psilocybin, or both?

Then there is the tek that implements a denatured alcohol extraction of Desmanthus Illinoesis rootbark, which is said to drastically increase potency- but I dont remember seeing any data on what level, and whether it increased psilocin or psilocybin levels proportionately or not.....

Could other tryptamine 'backbone' compounds be used (I would think so), and what ones would be more likely to increase both psilocybin and psilocin levels or just psilocybin levels??
Could 5-HTP Tryptophan be used, and be correctly metabolised to increase potency?

Fairly new to growing fungi, used to be more of a green/hydro man.....

[Karphophorez]

Try throwing some Tryptamine HCL into the equation and adapt it to your tek of choice if potency is your desire... be aware though, that this method tends to increase psilocin levels rather than psilocybin levels, requiring more prompt preservation methods as psilocin quite rapidly breaks down..........

Check this out:

In the following transcription of the science paper and discovery of Dr. Jochen Gartz, he describes adding a 25 millimolar concentration of Tryptamine HCL (a psilocin and psilocybin precursor) to the cubensis substrate and under lab control conditions, discovered the potentiation of psilocin into never before measured levels in cubensis fruitbodies of up to 3.3% psilocin which is several times the potency as regular cubensis.


PF TEK application of the Gartz Tryptamine technique.
1/2 pint jar:

1/2 - 2/3 cup of vermiculite + 1/8 cup of brown rice powder and (45 milliliters of water with .16 grams of Tryptamine HCL added)

PF experiment results:

The fungus cultured as usual except that the fruit bodies grew dwarfed. Bio-assay showed that they are at least 3 times the usual potency.

PRESERVING THE PSILOCIN - Use the cool desiccation technique of the PF TEK. Dry the shrooms in a refrigerator under COLD conditions. Store the dried fungi in a tight container with desiccant in the freezer.


March 6 1997 entry - Tryptamine formula update
The above formula is a bit to much for the pf tek. That is why the shrooms grew dwarfed and some jars failed to fruit. The answer is that the pf substrate is much lighter and thinner than Gartz' substrate. Gartz used cooked brown rice and cow dung. This is heavier, thicker and more nutritious than the pf substrate formula, so therefore, the tryptamine hcl content should be less also. PF has received some very reliable information that 1/2 to 3/4 of the above formula should be used. So instead of .16 grams of tryptamine HCl, use .1 or less grams of tryptamine hcl.

[Hippie3]

heard a guy say at the Nook that cubies develope a chemical when they feel threatened my contamination

never heard that one either.
have my doubts that there's any truth to it.
of course the contams themselves, if present/nearby
might cause some stomach troubles.

[Hippie3]

gartz' results have been de-bunked

[Karphophorez]

Really? What are the details of that? What about the alien substrate formula, and adding tryptamines or trypophan supplements in general? Anything standing out?

Speaking of the debunking, i'd better change a post I threw in earlier: potency of grain v straw/dung- posted the chap the gartz waffle to increase potency.....

Who did the experiment to debunk the gartz/tryptamine process?

[Karphophorez]

Might try to replicate the gartz experiment with clones and using various Psi/Pans. Could follow it with an extraction and maybe TLC to check psilocin/psilocybin levels.....

Was going to try a few other methods of supplementation with the tryptamines and/or tryptophan, too.

I'll keep the board posted.... it just seems like a nice dream to chase..........

[Hippie3]

that's the problem,
no one has been able to duplicate gartz' results,
not even gartz.
alien's formula is ok, kinda tricky but not really all that special, imo.
we hear from time to time various claims that this or that boosts
alkaloid production but hard evidence is lacking,
just try finding anything other than that one old paper by gartz.
not much there of any substance.
as far as i know.

[I_am_me]

Not to mention that its very difficult these days to actually get a real test of psilo content. Hard to get into labs carrying arm fulls of mushrooms hehehe so potency usually ends up being a subjective judgement.

From what I've noticed cubies tend to be pretty consistent with potency. Combine that fact with either tea or everclear extract its pretty easy to get a good solid pure dose without having to ingest any mushroom matter.

[vrooota]

And if you want to improve your production of alkyloids its so much easier to just grow more instead of buying chems to add to the substrate to get better shroomies

[Hippie3]

i suspect most substrates have more than enough already present,
much more than the fungi ever uses.

[the_other_chap]

Absolutely. I've grown the same GT strain on several different substrates (admittedly not "tuned" for potency) and noticed no subjective differences in potency.
I think the genetics are likely to be far more important than the substrate (provided it's adequate).
Unless someone comes up with a "super potent" strain, you'll just have to eat a few more shrooms every time