Some first-timer questions [merged]

[shoblime]

I am following the new PF TEK for Simple Minds (hehe) I have 8 jars PC'd right now, 7 perlite/BRF and one Rye Berries/BRF. I also crushed up a couple multivitamins for some minerals. I have a few questions before I innoculate later today...
1) my jars are sealed, I didn't make holes (on purpose) I plan to innoculate by removing the lids completely in my glovebox. However, I have a sort of BRF-paste from using a tiny bit too much water in my mix. There isn't any standing water, but the BRF is at the bottom is kinda pasty, is this okay?
2) This has probably been asked a thousand times, but when shroomies are grown in a common chamber NOT on cakes, what is that called? Can I start w/ jars and spread the material around on a mix of poo/straw? Or is there a different method?
3) I am growing the "brazil" variety of cubensis, with 8 cakes, how much can I expect to yield? I am hoping for at least a half ounce, is this reasonable?

[Hippie3]

ok,
you plan to use this perlite/brf mix as spawn to straw/poo,
that's not something we see very often
but i have heard that it can be done.
perlite's decent spawn once colonized
but how much rice was added ?
what size jars are you using ?
how much water was used ?

[shoblime]

Actually I didn't plan on using the perlite/brf to spawn poo. I plan on using a rubbermaid w/ heater/fan and growing on cakes. Hpwever, since I am just starting, I am trying a few different methods. How much rice was added? Umm...I used about .... enough perlite to fill 7 jars (about a cup each) I used about 1/4-1/3 BRF in each cup, and I added water before the BRF to until the perlite wouldn't hold any more, then I drained as much as possible. After I put the mix in jars, a bit of the BRF and water turned into a little bit of a paste. There is NO standing water, however. These are all in pint jars.

[insight]

I am curious to see the results

[shoblime]

anyone?

[insight]

This has probably been asked a thousand times, but when shroomies are grown in a common chamber NOT on cakes, what is that called? Can I start w/ jars and spread the material around on a mix of poo/straw? Or is there a different method?

As Hippie had stated, when you mix with straw/poo, this is spawning.

But then you said:

Actually I didn't plan on using the perlite/brf to spawn poo. I plan on using a rubbermaid w/ heater/fan and growing on cakes.

So Im confused if you are growing cakes to be spawned (which is taking the cakes, crumbling, and mixing with pasteurized straw/poo
or
Casings, where as you asked above, mixing with say vermiculite and/or coir and added a casing layer
or
Just fruiting as cakes

[Hippie3]

can we be honest with you ?
you're pretty much headed for a poor crop,
and that is if you are very lucky.
if that's a TEK you read somewhere,
they steered you wrong.
perlite cakes just don't fruit well for starters.
yours' do sound too wet, another big problem.
the rye didn't need any brf,
it'll do better without.
and a single multi-vitamin has way more than enough for several jars,
assuming one even uses them,
which no one does.

now that i've proly ruined your day,
let me point you at a very simple easy tek
that is almost 100% certain to work
the first time and every time
if you just follow the instructions.
see
http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages...tml?1039265527

[destroy_erase_improve]

also, even if the excess moisture didnt ruin the colonization, not having any airholes would definately put you out for the count. a dry verm layer will do fine in holding off contams. you need the innoculation holes to allow air exchange and the myc to breath. its aliveeeeee it needs to breathhh lol.

dont fret though, thin of it this way, all you lost was a lil substrate material. you still have your syringes and the spores

[shoblime]

My day would have been FAR more ruined if I had innoculated my crops. The method I followed was http://www.fungifun.com/pf/pf_en.htm#materialien Instead of vermiculite, which I have been unable to find here, I used perlite. Most shroomsters seem to be in agreement that perlite will work "okay." If I follow the link suggested, can I still use perlite? Maybe I will try to find some coco hair and do the 50/50+ casing TEK from the colonized jars.

[reefer]

Order vermiculite online if you have to. There aren't any really good substitutes.

[BradJ]

Hi, I've been looking all through the forums for some answers to a few questions and I apologize if they've been asked before (I'm pretty sure they have), but I can't seem to find them.

I'm using the brown rice flour/verm mix in some PF jars with the Equadorian strain. Most are looking nice, but a couple look like at the bottoms they're too moist, or maybe its bacteria? Well I guess you couldn't tell for certain without a picture but my question is, could I cut off the bottom and still use the good stuff, like crumble it into a casing tray?

Also, with my good jars, I'm considering dunking and cold-shocking, but I'm not sure if I should dunk them before the first flush to initiate pinning, or just throw em in the fridge or do nothing or what? I'm thinking of trying about half the good jars by just dunking and rolling them in some verm, then putting the other half out as shown PF style. The couple of jars that look like they're starting to grow bacteria, or possibly are just too waterlogged I want to try and make a casing out of.

With 10 1/2 pints, any rough estimates on the yields, using half rolled and half PF style?

Last, I just started a second batch, this time with the Orrisa India strain, and I didn't see any black flecks in the syringe. Is that okay? Maybe it was a bad syringe, or is that just common to this mushroom? Also I used 1/4th pint jars for this batch, and as soon as I took them out of the pressure cooker (about 16 hours after I let it cool), about a quarter of them had that same bacteria or waterlogged look. Mostly the ones on the bottom layer. Could I have used too much water in the mix, or maybe the steam got in or something like that?

Okay any advice would be very much appreciated, and sorry if these are stupid newbie questions, I'm just really worried about my babies. I'm so damn excited about them! I want to try a few different methods of fruiting with this batch to gain a little experience and because I'm not too worried about this yield, I just want enough for me and a friend.

Okay thanks a lot!

[Lazlo]

LOL! That's ok if you can't see any spores in the syringe. I had an OI syringe like that, that had me worried also. I would think that a $15 syringe would be loaded with at least VISIBLE spores. I hope you have better luck with the OI strain than I am. Good luck man!

[taoistshredder]

"With 10 1/2 pints, any rough estimates on the yields, using half rolled and half PF style?"

Worst case scenerio - all but 3 contaminate - each cake only fruits 5 dry grams - 15g total
Best case scenerio - all colonize and fruit - each yields between 7 and 10 grams - 70-100g total

You should have plenty for you and a friend.

[chill]

Originally Posted by BradJ

my question is, could I cut off the bottom and still use the good stuff, like crumble it into a casing tray?

Absolutely. If you think your jars are too wet you can birth early, get rid of the overly moist part and either finish colonizing in the fruiting chamber or crumble and case.

Originally Posted by BradJ

Also, with my good jars, I'm considering dunking and cold-shocking,

Do NOT cold shock. IMO pinning is related to light, moisture and O2.

Originally Posted by BradJ

but I'm not sure if I should dunk them before the first flush to initiate pinning, or just throw em in the fridge or do nothing or what?

Just birth, double end case and provide lots of O2 via a fish tank pump that you run 1/2 time on a timer.

Originally Posted by BradJ

With 10 1/2 pints, any rough estimates on the yields, using half rolled and half PF style?

On average, say three flushes per cake: 5 dry grams each. More if you get lucky or go for more flushes. Dunk between flushes.

Originally Posted by BradJ

Last, I just started a second batch, this time with the Orrisa India strain, and I didn't see any black flecks in the syringe. Is that okay?

Spores are too small to see individually with the naked eye. It just means they are well dispersed. If you can see spores that means they are clumped together and MAY not be as good of a syringe as you'd think.

[BradJ]

Thanks all for the answers. Very helpful.

So I shouldn't dunk right after birthing? A double end case verm layer will provide enough water to my cakes? Would dunking right off possibly increase or decrease the flush quantity and quality, or is there no way to be sure?

And if it is indeed bacteria rather than excess moisture (I really dont know), could I still cut and crumble the mycelium or would it be sickly stuff?

[nomoreusmc]

I can't agree more with chill, cold shock is a myth with cubs, it will retard your growth. The only time they should be cold is when you dunk, they should be in the fridge

[BradJ]

Okay, no cold shocking for sure. Thanks again. And hey, I love your name NoMoreUSMC, I've got a year left in my sentence and its absolutely miserable. I take it you were prior service?

[nomoreusmc]

7 proud years, medically retired. I'd still be in if I had my choice.

[python]

if your jars look wet they may still colonize......you probably just over did the water at the beginning, or some water may have gotten in during your pcing stage.....

[python]

nice post chill

[BradJ]

Okay, I just got back to my parents house where I'm farming them, been away a few days (my ma watched em for me), and now I see in the jars little invitro baby mushrooms! I'm terrified and overjoyed. My babies! Umm, but I dont want them invitro, so I set up a terrarium with moistened perlite, baked some vermiculite for the DE casings at 350 for 30 minutes (but with nothing covering the pan, is that okay?), then when they were done, I scraped off the top layer of verm, wiped the lid off with lysol wipes, filled em with verm, sprayed em with spring water (I dont really have a syringe, so I figured this would work). I sprayed the lid verm until a drop or so would come out of the bottom holes. Then I put the cake upside down on the lid-filled with verm, and gently twisted it in. Next I dumped some of the baked verm on top of the cake (or bottom, which is now on top) and sprayed that too, letting the water roll down the sides of the cake. Then I covered, and thats it. Is that all right? I was so rushed and worried I hope I didn't skip something...

Okay so basically I'm asking:
-should I cover the verm in the oven,
-does it matter if the cakes are upside down or not, and why,
-and I think I murdered a few little tiny-invitro-baby-beautiful-equadorian-magic-mushrooms. Are they okay on the bottom against that jar-lid verm and hanging all limp like that, or did I just kill my babies? Most are growing up (or down when they were in the jar), which added to my confusion and made me set the cakes upside down.

Also I put a cup with some ice in the terrarium to take it down from 80 to hopefully 70. Its just tap water ice, but it cant hurt my shroomies right?
Thanks for any advice!

(They are supposed to be upside down right!?)

Ah thanks if you read all that, and thanks for any help! I'm pretty confused, but its looking good.

[BradJ]

Oh, does anyone else play music for their babies? I've heard that rumor about plants growing better if you play classical music for them, so I've been playing lots of psychadelic music for my shroomies, like Shpongle or infected mushroom, and sometimes aphex twin but I think that kind of scares them, and putting them in my room with all the black lights. I think they'll get the idea that this is a psychadelically charged place, and totally cool for them to have babies in. They'll be filled with magic.

as far as I have dealt...I don't even mess with sterilizing verm. Until it fucks me I won't. With no nutes I'm not skared.... and it seems like the shroomies will grow out...and toward the light. Seems like a cup of ice would increase the humidity as it melted in a sealed environment. If your in tubs...in a green house it could be another story. Best of luck and godspeed my friend... Also if the cakes get a bit of light they will grow up, toward the light or whatever. Doesn't need to be alot of light...although I have always had natural light diffused by blinds...so they've always be up.

[elixir]

BradJ, UV lights are known to cause genetic defects. Not a good idea.

Blacklight test

[BradJ]

Oh jesus, thanks. No more blacklights. That room was a little warm anyways, can't seem to keep the temperature beneath 80 during the day, I guess I'll just add another cup of ice. The perlite isn't doing its job either, maybe its because I'm using the rubbermaid container top instead of saran wrap. I'll try that, hopefully the humidity spikes up a bit.

I use rubbermaid tops. just spray the sides of the container when there is no condensation on the sides. You'll be all good brad

[cat]

1) shrooms love bass...well at least mine did...got incredibly potent fruits with lots of trance and bass-boosting music
2) you should be able to tell if the humidity is high just by stickin your hand in the aquarium: either get a better seal so it doesnt escape, or supplement the humidity by using a humidifier a couple of times a day...

[elixir]

An interesting thing about bass. They've found bone density of cats is higher due to low frequency vibrations (~40hz) and hence why they purr when they get a broken bone. They've repeated the experiments in humans and it has the same effect! It could be possible the vibrations also happen to cause a high density in the fruit bodies.

An interesting experiment, no doubt.
*Adds to far-too-long list of todos*

[aettis]

Just some general questions.

I've read about misting casings but was wondering if using an Ultrasonic Cool Mist Humidifier would be fine instead? I heard for casings Ultrasonic is the way to go.

Does anyone know where to get a good pH meter?

When using grains for a substrate, would it be better to use pint or half pint jars? (wide mouth of course)

More questions to come of course. Thanks to all in advance...always a pleasure to start posting again. I am getting ready to do some casings with that A+ strain I tried on cakes. Can't wait to get some pictures up of my setup. Thanks to all, again.

-Aettis

[I_am_me]

As far as jars, quarts are best for grains. If you only have pints and half pints I would use the pints. Grains are usually used for spawn and you want as much spawn as you can get so more is always better. They don't even have to be wide mouth because you break up the grains before pouring them out.

As far as casings, the ultrasonic keeps the humidity up in the grown chamber. You also mist the casings if they dry out. Don't over mist though as you can drown pins. Stop misting when you start to see pins form.

As far as the ph meter, check a hydroponic store or hardware store locally.

^^^^^^ good info ^^^^^^^


I use pints and quarts for grains. Get some quart jars and use your half pints for liquid cultures

Good luck with the casings

[aettis]

Ok, mist to keep casings just moist enough and humidity for the mushies when they going to grow. As far as just using the humidifier to keep the sides just damp enough where you see it form condensation, would that be ok? Instead of misting the sides of the chambers...guess I want to keep the outside contams to a minimal.

Since I am still somewhat new at casings I will be using pint size jars. I will be using a either 60/40 mix of verm/coir or a 50/50 mix of verm and coir for the casing layer, verm on the bottom about 1/4 to 1/2 inch or so. I figure following a simple tek for the first time would be good. figuring on about 60 pint jars. 6 seperate trays per shelve I have. 5 shelves. An Ultrasonic Cool Mist Humidifier to provide the humidity, an Humidistat (from littlegreenhouse.com) that will allow me to keep it 85% quite nicely. I have taken a Hepa air filter, altered a 5 gallon pail to hold the humidifier drawing in air, and pushing nothing but clean air out into my fruiting chamber.

At the moment I cannot for the life of me think of the best fruiting temps...was it like 80 degrees or so? Shit.

Above the chamber I will have a closet ionizer going and then right on the shelve directly across from the Hepa air filter/mod/5gallonpail, a will have smaller hepa filter to clean the air around it. I plan to run make the hose I am using for the modified 5 gallon pail (that will connect to the fruiting chamber) disconnectable. I want to be able to connect that air filter/mod/ onto my glovebox when I am done building it...one hell of a pressure box. Hell yeah.

Above the entire fruiting chamber will be haning a flourscent bulb, that has a bit of a blue tint. It is supposed to be like daylight flourscent bulb. To insulate my fruiting chamber I am using window plastic wrap, that you buy in the winter time. Except this is the window wrap that you heat with a hair dryer and it shrinks tight.

I really cannot wait to begin. Thanks to all for your help.

Glad to be back.

-Aettis

Sup, I got a few questions I need to be answered.

* Often times I see a digital readout for humidity and temp. inside most grow chambers. I was wondering where I can find one of these.

* Alos, Dunk Tek is close to impossible for my living arrangement. I cant put them in the fridge. Is there an alternitive for this (i.e. cooler/ice)?

* And lastly, I see that every psilocybe mushroom strain is often labeled as "Toxic, Hallucinogenic". Now I knew that shrooms were "poision", but I always thought our bodies could handle this. Can it hurt you? I mean from my experience, no. But after I see its listed toxic, I begin to wonder.

Thanks ahead for your feedback.

[MLBjammer]

You can go to Home Depot and buy a pretty good one for around $20.
You don't have to refrigerate when dunking, just a dark place.
To my knowledge, shrooms cannot physically kill you unless you choke to death on them. GL.

Ditto, although an anolog will read more accurately. Get the dial kind.
Ditto, but does not have to be dark.
Toxic is a propoganda word laid down by all the close minded. You would have to eat several times your own weight in fresh mushies to o.d.
Psilocin is structurally identical to our naturally produced seratonin. Seratonin could also be harmful in huge quantities.

Thanks alot, all my questions answered.
Now how much do the dial kind of readouts cost?

So No Refrigeration on dunk Tek? It must be in the tek for something.

And I should have know, most other drugs are targeted for anti drug propaganda as well.

More Feedback Welcome Thanks Again

[arezap]

Yes, it was in theTEK not but absolutely necessary. As with most things the TEK's can be altered to try to fit your needs. You need to experiment and see what will work best for you. Some of the Teks need to be revamped with the latest information. It was also believed cold shocking benefeited cubies but this was not the case as it is with some edible mushrooms like oysters.

Thanks arezap, I guess as with anything trial and error are always the best way to learn things, I will continue to read through the teks, they still have quite a bit of useful information.

[Hippie3]

It was also believed cold shocking benefeited cubies

-zap
it is not true that i recommended refrigeration during dunking
because of any cold shock;

when i wrote the invitro tek
i already knew cold shocking was useless.

the reason i urge refrigeration is to
prevent bacteria from growing in the dunk water,
fed by dissolved nutres from the cake itself.

so if one cannot refrigerate
i still recommend using cold water
and changing the water every 6 hours
for fresh cold water
until the dunk is complete.