Shroom extraction TEKS

[oibchip]

I would like to get an opinion from those who 'know'. What is the best shroom extraction using "everclear" and regular kitchen pyrex and pots and pans?

Any advice is helpful!...thanks

[oibchip]

Bump 4 me..cheesy yeah...but still would appreciate some input

[Soliver1]

Best is easiest, IMO -

soak your shrooms in a jar with everclear for a few weeks.
Strain, evap, enjoy!

sol

[oibchip]

a few weeks?..doesn't that seem a little too long? What benefit could ther be after 72 hours or so?

[emptybrightness]

She did a bit of research on this and found out that ' a minimum of three weeks ' is recommended for cold extractions by Herbalists. Figuring this was good advice she follows it and is always happy with the results of her Everclear Extractions ala Soliver.

She swishes the jar around every once and a while and covers the container so it's not sitting in light. When time is up she pours off the Golden magic thru cheese cloth. The remaining glop is wrung out in the cloth and resulting liquid is then filtered once thru a paper coffee filter and that's it.

peace

+empty

[oibchip]

I will probbably soak for 72 hrs then heat to 180 degrees Farenheit then strain and filter, Maybe I will try the cold extraction as well just for shits and giggles.

[Hippie3]

do not heat-
no need, no benefit
loss of potency
lose-lose situation
cold is the way

I've only saw tek with dried shrooms..what about doing this with fresh ones?
Is this a no no?

[Chaos]

Hey Soliver

What is your normal ratio of magic to everclear ?

Do you start with a 1/5 then reduce?
Or just soak and suck? YES!
FOAF wants to store magic during the cold season, and this seems to be the best way for long term storage?
She was also thinking about using mini bottles for storage, but what would be a good concentration for a single drink?

Hey Chaos
I found The Prof. tek to be mighty helpful.

http://www.fanaticus.com/mycoalki.htm

[Soliver1]

Sorry for the delay... I've been outta town for a week or so

Honestly, I just eyeball the shroom - everclear ratio. I can't give any
solid measurments, as shrooms don't maintain a constant
size - weight ratio (lil buggers!).

Usually I just take an ounce or more of dried shrooms, grind them
a bit in the blender. No need to powder them, just get 'em into
smaller chunks. I'm not sure if this is even necessary, but I always
do it anyway.

Toss the shrooms into a big jar. Pour everclear on top. I like to cover the
shrooms and have about an inch of extra everclear at the bottom
(they float at first... we all float down here )

After a while, they'll soak up the everclear and sink. I put them on
my kitchen counter and my wife and I give it a shake whenever we
walk by it. That's pretty much it. I do this for three weeks or so,
depends on when I feel like messing with the final stage:

Strain the shrooms out. I use a strainer first then I restrain it
through a coffee filter. I like to squeeze the chunks to get all
the goodies, but again, I'm not sure how much that helps...
just a habit I got into back when I was a poppy pod junkie

The most important part, which I should have mentioned before,
is to write down how many grams of shrooms you started with.
The amount of everclear isn't really that important.

Example:

You start with 50g dried shroom. Maybe you used 200ml of
everclear to soak 'em in. Whatever liquid you have left at
the end, just divide that by 50, and that's your (approx)
one gram dose. I don't like drinking everclear, and it tastes
nasty, so I like to evaporate my final liquid down to about
1 gram to 5 mls.

Some shrooms can only go down to 1 gram per 10mls before
crystals start to precipitate, and no matter what you read or
hear anywhere, the crystals are pretty much useless. No one
is even sure what is IN the crystals, it may be waxes and tars,
it may be psillly, but just to be on the safe side, I like to
keep it in solution.

Store the liquid in the freezer in tightly sealed containers. It lasts
a long time - I've gone up to 8 months with no noticable loss.

I like to store it in small containers. This way, if I find that there
are crystals in the bottom, I can gently heat the bottle in hot
water & swirl until they go back in solution, then measure doses.
You wouldn't want to do that to the entire batch every time you
dose, and after all - who knows WHAT is in those crystals?

Using heat in this process is pointless and may actually damage
the final product. Note that the prof didn't publish any bio-assays
of said shroom crystals.. could just be sugars or such...
Heat and psilly = bad news. Not to mention that heating up
everclear can be extremely dangerous.

Patience is key here, IME, and besides, it's easy as hell.

Thanks for the props emptybrightness

soliver

[Soliver1]

"Efficient extraction apparently requires patience.

As to the identity of the crystals that were drifting around in the cooled Soxhlet receiver, from their being insoluble in ethanol, and white, and transparent, I would guess that you are seeing pure psilocybin."

-- Dr. Shulgin

For what that's worth, if you're one of the many who worship
shulgin... note that he's "guessing" what the crystals are, and
no one really has done any solid research on this.

As for the Isopropyl extraction method... well, I've tried it
several times with 100% iso and 80% and had NO results
worth repeating. I really wish he'd delete that crap about
extracting old cakes.. what a waste of time.

I didn't know that my early results were published anywhere
but here? Interesting - as many times as the Prof and I
have gone around, he still used my posts on his site.



soliver

[Hippie3]

PF was always pretty quick to see which ideas were worth 'stealing' for his own

[Soliver1]

tee hee hee . . . don't even get me started!

Yet in a way, I miss the ignorant, old, profane,
cop-magnetized coot. He sure kept things
interesting.

[golly]

After messing around with everclear extractions over the last 6 months or so , there are a couple of conclusions i have reached...

The first is that boiling the everclear/shrooms for three hours is a waste of alcohol+ proly does degrade the psilly and is a fire hazzard to boot..

A finely powdered mush boiled in EC for 45 mins yielded a very weak extract...

Chopped shrooms kept in EC in the freezer for 3 months then warmed and filtered yielded a fairly strong extract..

I taste tested the crystals alone by pouring off the liquid while still cold and ingested about a match head sized dose - They are active but i cant tell what % of the extract was in them , created a nice buzz but not "tripping"

My latest attempt was to heat the EC/mush to near boiling then add some ascorbic acid crystals then let cool to room temp for about 2 weeks, shaking occasionally..
I then re-heated and filtered....It appears to be a richer extract than i have seen before but have yet to taste test....
It takes a lot of time and testing.. to determine the most efficient methods and this is just another experiment in many to come...

I apologize Soliver, Hippie, and all the Vets that share a history with those folks.

I did not mean to offend anyone with posting that tek.
I feel that the people here withhold all the info "I'LL" ever need.

The reason I posted that link cause I found it "detailed" and backed by you old/young guys.
I was only trying to help a fellow member. I do forget that the older bloggers here have a long history with "other" bloggers on the net.
In the future I'll find helpful info here to share; as I know if you look hard enough it is in those vaults.


It seems to be a big soap oprah back then!

[Chaos]

Thanks to all.
CoyteMesc thanks for the link, every bit of info is useful. Even if it is dated and a bit flawed,it is knowledge that I dont have to fail with to learn from.
Soliver.
I knew that your tek has to be good after reading other threads on the same subject. BTW iI think you avatar looks like you just took a shot of everclear!
Thanks for your response.

[Soliver1]

No apologies needed!

It was funny to see my old posts elsewhere

The avatar is a salvador dali pic I found somewhere.
He was crazy as hell.



soliver

[Hippie3]

Originally Posted by CoyoteMesc

Hey Chaos
I found The Prof. tek to be mighty helpful.
http://www.fanaticus.com/mycoalki.htm

here are the original source documents
from our archives -

http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages...tml?1039370402

http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages/5/150360.html

http://mycotopia.net/discus/messages...tml?1038534374

thx Hip
more wrinkles for the brain....
looks like alot of useful info there, cool

[mason420]

So what happens to the alcohol? Does it all breakdown/evaporate out or is your end product a blend of psylocibin and booze?

is your end product a blend of psylocibin and booze?

thats where my money is.

if in an unsealed container some will evap.

[Hippie3]

if you want crystals then of course the booze must be evaporated off

[udok]

Using alkohol or acetic acid to extract Psilocybin/psilocin especially from
P. cubensis leads to an instable product. To get a more stable product the use of
pure methanol is recommended.
CAUTION methanol is VERY VERY toxic!!!!!!
Else use it as soon as practicable.


The following are excerpts from:
http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushroo...journal1.shtml
Journal of Basic Microbiology
Vol 34, 1994; 17-22
by Jochen Gartz

...
Comments:
The abstract says it, if you are planning to extract the alkaloids from either dries
and pulverisized fruiting bodie sor from mycelium it is best to use pure methanol.
Superior to aqueous solutions of alcohols (which is wet alcohol, the one you are likely
to have!) is dilute acetic acid which means simple vinegar (better: vinegar essence
diluted with same amount of water) which is quite nice because there is no problem
obtaining it.
The problem with wet alcohol is that the enzymes which dephosphorylise Psilocybin
to the instable Psilocin are also extracted from the biomass. This also occures with
acetic acid but to a smaller amount and does not occure at all with pure
methanol (ethanol?). The recommended extraction time (magnetical stirring)
is with methanol 12h at room temperature or 1h at 45 deg.Celsius, no times given for
the acetic acid method. And the moral: Dont use clandestine-quality alcohols for
extraction, use vinegar ! Or dry the alcohol by adding salts like MgSO4, CaCl2, NaSO4
which were previously dried in an oven and decand or filter the solvent from them after
a day or longer.


PLEASE NOTE:
For those new to extractions, it is extremely important to note that methanol is
poisonous to humans and if it is used for any extractions, it must be thoroughly
evaporated before the material is used.


...

Table 1 #
Amount of indole alkaloids in fruiting bodies of different species by
using pure methanol as solvent (%, dry weight).

Species Psilocybin Psilocin Baeocystin
P. semilanceata______0.98______0.00_______0.34
P. bohemica_________0.85______0.02_______0.04
P. bohemica_________0.93______0.04_______0.02 (cultivated)
P.cubensis________0.63______0.11_______0.02
G.purpuratus________0.34______0.29_______0.05
I.aeruginacens______0.40______0.00_______0.21
P.cyanescens_______0.32______0.51_______0.02


Table 2 #
Concentraction of alkaloids by using acetic acid for extraction
of the dried mushrooms (%, dry weight).

Species Psilocybin Psilocin Baeocystin
P. semilanceata_____0.97______0.15_______0.11
P. bohemica________0.60______0.21_______0.00
P. bohemica________0.65______0.28_______0.00 (cultivated)
P. cubensis_______0.45______0.25_______0.00
G. purpuratus_______0.24______0.35_______0.01
I. aeruginacens______0.32______0.05_______0.15
P. cyanescens_______0.20______0.61_______0.00


Table 3 #
Results of the mushroom extraction of six species using
aqueous mixtures of methanol and ethanol (%, dry weight).

Species Psilocybin Psilocin Baeocystin
P. semilanceata_____0.80______0.15_______0.11
P. bohemica________0.60______0.21_______0.00
P. bohemica________0.65______0.28_______0.00 (cultivated)
P. cubensis_______0.45______0.25_______0.00
G. purpuratus_______0.24______0.35_______0.01
I. aeruginacens______0.32______0.05_______0.15
P. cyanescens_______0.20______0.61_______0.00



By using the new solvent mixtures containing ethanol and methanol for extraction
it was found that more psilocin could be detected in extracts of every species
but always smaller amounts of psilocybin than with pure methanol (Table 3).

Additionally, a high activity of enzymes of the phosphatase type could be detected
in these aqueous solutions from all species. In contrast to these results only the
extracts of P. cubensis and P. cyanescens showed a significant enzymatic activity
by using acetic acid as solvent.
In these cases psilocybin was completely dephosphorylated to psilocin by heating
the acid extracts and no baeocystin could be detected in P. cyanescens.

...
Casale (1985) described the rapid formaion of psilocin after complete dephosphorylation
of psilocybin by heating the dilute acetic acid extract. It is now quite clear that the
decomposition under these conditions is an enzymatic reaction and was not caused by the
acid alone. For example the phosphoric acid ester psilocybin, baeocystin and
aeruginascin in these acidic extracts from I. aeruginacens were stable during heating
in contrast to the behaviour of the same alkaloids in solutions of P. cubensis and
P. cyanescens. It seems that active enzymes of the phosphatase type could be extracted
with aqueous acetic acid only in these two species in contrast to water containing
alcohols as extraction method. In the past attempts at the sparation of psilocybin and
psilocin simply using mixtures of organic solvents and water were also unsatisfactory
(THOMSON 1980).

This investigation shows that the high percentage of psilocin detected in P. bohemica
(Kysilka and Wurst 1990, Wurst et al. 1992) and not found earlier
(Gartz and Mueller 1989) was an artificial phenomenon casued by enzymatic destrucion
of psilocybin which is common in different species by using water containing organic
solvents. Extraction with pure methanol is the safest method to obtain the genuine
indole derivatives from mushroom species of various genera.

[fastfred]

Don't use methanol. The biggest loss of the whole process is evaporation to dryness, which you don't have to do with acetic acid or ethanol. Evaporating to dryness directly exposes the actives to oxidation via O2.

Methanol also takes a lot longer to extract. The 12 hours as mentioned is not enough for maximum efficiency. Alcohol is much quicker. 24-48 hours should be plenty. Methanol needs 48+ hours.

I also highly advise that you use some sort of antioxidant/preservative during the process as it will greatly improve your yields. Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is probably the best to use. Add some to the solvent before you start the extraction. You don't need much. A couple grams per L should be enough.

You also don't need to use everclear. One study found 70% to be optimal. That's 140 proof, so bacardi 151 is about perfect.

Remember that you'll be extracting other junk too, so getting crystals from a crude extract like this is not reasonable.


-FF

[TVCasualty]

My money is on the crystals being carbohydrates (sugars). As the new year begins and I get the last bits of 2006 purged, I am beginning several projects that I can now document w/ my new digital camera... One I'm working on is a strong high-volume vacuum pump from junkyard parts (so it's free). I intend to try drying these mysterious crystals under vacuum to preclude their exposure to O2 and try them straight. (breaking the vacuum will allow O2 contact, but only for a second or two as I wolf them down). I have heard they taste sweet. Hmmm...

If my free junkyard vac pump works I'll post a TEK of it...

[udok]

Originally Posted by fastfred

Don't use methanol. The biggest loss of the whole process is evaporation to dryness, which you don't have to do with acetic acid or ethanol. Evaporating to dryness directly exposes the actives to oxidation via O2.

Evaporating under reduced pressure would do the job.(if one wants the unstable psilocin too) Much less heat needed.
Keep in mind: Psilocybin ist "stable". You can get crystals from boiling water.
Mushrooms can be stored "open air" for a long time and are still active.

For me the interesting and here relevant part in the text from J. Gartz is:

The problem with wet alcohol is that the enzymes which dephosphorylise Psilocybin
to the instable Psilocin are also extracted from the biomass. This also occures with
acetic acid but to a smaller amount and does not occure at all with pure
methanol (ethanol?).
sorry for a little bit "off topic"

[wayback]

Yeah, right on Soliver, I've also noted that Dali pic way back when.

I say eat the shrooms, take a big ass shot
of whiskey and let the extraction happen in the gut..hehehe

[fastfred]

Psilocybin is fairly stable, but the problem is that a lot of it will get converted to psilocin during extraction. The psilocin is then quickly oxidized.

The obvious fix is to add an antioxidant like vitamin C. It works great and totally eliminates the bluing reaction.


TV, I bet the crystals that crash out are more proteins (bio-gunk) than sugars. I would think that sugars would remain fairly well dissolved. One thing I've thought would be a good experiment would be to add some water to your aqueous ethanol. A bunch of bio-gunk will crash out (precipitate). Then you could add some more ethanol and filter. That should precipitate the bio-gunk, which then usually coagulates and won't redissolve. Adding more alcohol should redissolve any actives that co-precipitated. That should purify the product quite a bit by getting rid of a lot of the bio-gunk.


-FF

[TVCasualty]

Interesting.

I don't know much about saturation, so I'm open to all the possibilities. One thing I'd like to know about saturation is if different molecules in a solution (say, proteins and sugars) affect the solution's saturation level of each or if they can double up. That is, if it takes 100 units of sugar to saturate a solution, would 50 units of protein and 50 units of sugar produce the same or a closely similar result? Or can it hold 100 units of sugar and 100 units of protein before crystalization of either substance?

This is a hard question to phrase, hope my query makes some sense.

My guess is that with a bunch of substances in a solution, i.e. proteins, carbs, some fat maybe, psilocybin, psilocin, baeocystin, etc. one of them would likely precipitate out first. Evaporating more solvent would get us to another threshold where more (and different) crystals might precipitate out, so eventually crystals of each substance capabale of crystalizing would form as the solvent evaporates. Maybe?

Damn, it's way too early in the morning for this brain stuff. Time to step back and take CoyoteMesc's advice and just eat 'em with a chaser.

This quest isn't about tripping, however, it's about chasing the Grail of the Pure Crystal that is a compulsion for some of us whackos moreso than a practical exercise.

[udok]

Hmm the thread started with:

Originally Posted by oibchip

I would like to get an opin