Are these ready for fruiting yet?

[delliman]

Hey you guys that have experience, are these ready for fruiting yet. I've been checking grow logs and reading lots of threads and some of the pictures I've seen of successful fruiting have looked to be at about the same level of incubation. They have been incubating for 30 days as seen in the pictures. They were done using the PF Tek shown in the book Psilocybin Mushroom Handbook by Nicholas and Ogame. The 1/2 pint jars had three innoculation holes and were injected using a purchased syringe. The foil was removed after about a week in the incubation chamber that has been at a steady 80 degrees F and checked daily. The incubation level of the 11 jars innoculated is in various levels of completion but these are two examples of the most complete. I have just flipped them over to help with aeration as suggested in several of the threads that I've read and I'll see whether this will help speed the process. I will attempt to insert images so you can see what I mean. Being a newbe I'm getting very anxious to get to the fruiting stage but I don't want to ruin what I've accomplished so far. It looks like for the most part my jars have lots of myc growth on the bottom and that's why I decided to flip them over. I don't see any evidence of contamination in any of my jars and I'm very surprised and happy for that since it's an indication I've done the critical parts of the process correctly. Thanks in advance for any and all help.

The first pic is of two jars showing the bottom myc growth but is rather blurry. The second and third pics (which look to be more clear) are of the same jars at two different rotations to try to show completeness of growth around the jar circumference.

After looking at the attached photos I'm not sure they are clear enough. Please let me know what ya think. If they aren't I'll take more pics and try again. Also I forgot to resize the pics so if that is a problem I'll also try again.

Peace to all from this aging hippie.

sorry, but those don't look fully colonized yet.. 30 days? you innoculated by multispore? has it stalled? or is it still growing?

[delliman]

Vinz,

Thanks for the quick response Vinz. You must be a night owl just like me. I looks to me like it might have stalled and that's what I was worried about. It might still be growing but if it is it is mighty slow. That's why, after looking through the threads, I decided to turn them over to try to get more air to them to see if that helps, which is what I understood from the threads. It was innoculated with a multispore syringe. Any other suggestions?

[siam_jim]

was going to suggest flippin the jars, 30 days is quite long, whats your temp and how are you setting up on FEA...it doesn't need much at this stage but still do need a bit.


siam

[delliman]

Originally Posted by siam_jim

was going to suggest flippin the jars, 30 days is quite long, whats your temp and how are you setting up on FEA...it doesn't need much at this stage but still do need a bit.


siam

Siam Jim,

I am incubating at 80 Degrees F in a closed, double tub set-up which holds temp very well. I'm not sure what the acronym FEA means so if you could clarify I will answer that part of your response as well. I did a quick search in the glossary as well as new and old threads and didn't find a definition. Sorry about being so thick on that. Thanks much for your response.

[siam_jim]

sorry i meant FAE ... pertaining to you air exchange...


siam

[delliman]

Siam Jim,

The only air exchange (if you could call it that) is my obsessive, daily checking of progress. In fact, I posted a previous thread asking whether I should be fanning the incubator and the responses were that I didn't have to do this while the jars were incubating that the daily checking of the jars would be enough to get the air exchange needed. If, instead, I should be fanning them I will start doing this daily as well. I also took pictures of the best, most advanced jars but I have some that show just a trace (about dime sized) spots of mycelium. I think they are the last ones I innoculated and this was due to not shaking the syringe enough though the process. One of the many learnings I'm picking up as I get more experience in the hobby. I guess that is part of the fun of being a newbe.

[siam_jim]

are there any holes on the lids? if so how big and how are you filtering it...poly fill, micro tape???


siam

[delliman]

There are three 1/8" diameter holes in each lid with no filter material at all over the holes. Hope this is not a mistake but there seems to be no contamination as yet.

[golly]

It's the minor fluctuations in temp that contribute the most to air exchange in side your jars ..They breathe in and out as the temp rises and falls -even if it's only by 2 degrees...Fanning the jars should not be needed at all...

[siam_jim]

should be ok if you have the verm barrier on top. does the jar look dry any?

siam

[delliman]

Siam Jim,
No the jars look to have moisture in them especially when they were flipped up-side-down and the bottom formation of mycelium seperates from the bottom (not the top) surface. When they are inverted it looks like there is pretty good myc growth into the interior and enough seperation to indicate that the mycelium is devouring the mixed in BRF.

golly,
since I have a heat bomb submersed in the bottom tub of the double tub set-up and the water acts as a very good heat sink there doesn seem to be too much fluction of temperature unless the activity inside the jars constitute a heat variation that my digital thermometer does not register. If this type of set-up doesn't provide the temperature variation you are suggesting do you have any suggestions on how to get the variation you are reccommending?

[Soliver1]

The flip should stimulate growth - I'd just let 'em sit and continue to check on them ... if a week goes by and there's no change at all (that would be weird) then consider tweaks

soliver

[Soliver1]

Weird... I typed "then consider tweaks" but it keeps changing it to TEKS...

[delliman]

Soliver, What tweaks would you suggest?

[golly]

The temp may seem stable and thats fine , there is always enough variance to provide the needed push/pull of air through the filter, also - atmospheric pressure rises and falls twice a day to assist in the exchange..
Flipping em over is the fastest way to get things rolling , like Solly says...

[delliman]

Originally Posted by golly

The temp may seem stable and thats fine , there is always enough variance to provide the needed push/pull of air through the filter, also - atmospheric pressure rises and falls twice a day to assist in the exchange..
Flipping em over is the fastest way to get things rolling , like Solly says...

Thanks to all for your help. I hope by "filter" this includes the vermiculite under that definition since that is all the filter I have since the holes are not covered. I checked them again tonight about 12 hours after the flip and of course it's too soon to notice any change so I'll give an update within the week. Peace to all from this aging hippie.

as one can see, stalls can be because of many
different things.
I wanted to ask if you packed the sub in to tight/compact it in I mean.
And question #2 how long did you sterilize the sub/jars...
I'm thinking that if it's not your incubator then it maybe a honest mistake made with the sub before making into the incu.I dunno, just trying to help..

[delliman]

Originally Posted by CoyoteMesc

as one can see, stalls can be because of many
different things.
I wanted to ask if you packed the sub in to tight/compact it in I mean.
And question #2 how long did you sterilize the sub/jars...
I'm thinking that if it's not your incubator then it maybe a honest mistake made with the sub before making into the incu.I dunno, just trying to help..

Thanks for the reply CoyoteMesc...I made sure not to pack the substrate tightly according to the instructions and that looks to be confirmed because when I turned the jars over there was a pretty good space between what was the bottom formation of mycelium and the bottom (now the top of) the jar.

I PC'd the substrate at 15 psi for 60 minutes again according to the instructions and the PC seemed to drift sometimes to a higher pressure but not exceeding 20 psi before bringing it down again to 15 psi. I made sure I monitored this constantly during the hour of sterilization.

I was also wondering whether I should bump the temp up to about 83 to 85 degrees to help this along?

I appreciate all the help I can get because I'm anxious to get to the next step. It's like being a new dad which I can remember well even though my youngest is 31 years old. Peace from this aging hippie.

You'll get it right eventually, good luck.

[delliman]

I'm thinking of waiting a week and then trying to fruit one or two of the best developed cakes just to try. It looks like there is a little more activity and I'm also noticing beads of condensation either on the top (was the bottom before the flip) of the jar or gathering on the mycelium. I've been trying to tilt the jar and get these beads of moisture off the mycelium (down the sides) and off the jar top itself. I would imagine that the same sort of condensation was forming on the bottom of the lid before the flip but of coarse I couldn't see it. One thing I forgot to mention is that when I put the jar lids on I put the rubber down onto the jar not up like lots of TEK say to do. Would this be one of the reasons for the sloooooow development of mycelium? The question I have is what possible problems would I see if I started to try to fruit a jar that isn't ready. If I try fruiting early what do I look for and what might I encounter. Thanks again for all the help. Peace from this aging hippie.

[joystik]

Originally Posted by delliman

The question I have is what possible problems would I see if I started to try to fruit a jar that isn't ready. If I try fruiting early what do I look for and what might I encounter. Thanks again for all the help. Peace from this aging hippie.

Most probably contamination of your uncolonized cake.

[golly]

Rubber side down on the lids won't effect the growth rate if u have holes in the lid,,just makes em harder to open..

Birthing the cakes b4 full colo should be your very last resort ..
You will have to remove all uncolo'd parts , so if the center has yet to be overgrown then contams will be strongly favoured...

[delliman]

Joystick & golly,

Thanks so much for getting back to me. Your responses are definately going to make me reconsider. As yoiu both probably know it is very hard to be on the brink cause it seems to go so slow. It's so true that "a watched pot never boils" Maybe I'll wait another week to see where I am by then. I guess I'd rather wait than have a failure after waiting this long. They do seem to be progressing albeit very slowly. I'll keep y'all posted. Peace from this aging hippie.

[BuckarooBanzai]

I know it is hard, but it is almost always better to wait and see in this hobby. Trying to "fix" things in process, on the other hand, seems to almost always lead to failure.

G'Luck!!!

[delliman]

Again, sounds like good advice. I think I will wait. Sounds like it might be risky if you get contams in the center of the cake and don't know it. I finally got some bud off a closet plant today. Only at 6 weeks but it is certainly better than I've had for a while. Very dry here and waiting for 2 highs is worse than 1 anytime. This will make the waiting for my first shooms a little easier. Looks like you've been in the neighborhood for a while so you should know of what you speak. Peace from the aging hippie.

they looked pretty colonized to mee..
I just cant tell because of all the debris that looks to be coating the side of the jars..

is that just the verm barrier thats kinda shift gotten wet, shifted to the sides and stuck?

just looked again at the middle picture.. yeah more time needed.
If you really want to be patient.. you could always grind them up and use them to colonize some coir!?!??! eh eh!!!

[joystik]

I really wouldnt recommend opening those jars rite now. If youre new to growing you might just end up With a bunch of contams, as I said before, just be a little patient. It will eventually colonize fully.

I have yet another suggestion. Make a few more jars observing your sterile techniques very carefully and see if this happens again. Perhaps there could be unseen bacteria preventing growth on your old ones. Remember to wrap your jars with foil tightly to prevent water from coming inside them.

Just an Opinion.

Joy.

[delliman]

Hey DaGoon, Ya do see some debris on the side of the jar and in some of the jars the cake has really collapsed especially on one side. Some of the debris you see is from the side of the substrate that didn't get digested. Is this perhaps because it may not have been mixed well enough with the vermiculite at the start of the process? This would have been from before the jars were flipped and I wonder whether it will ever get colonized since it is now seperated from the original substrate and is now seperated for good never to be enveloped by the mycelium. This being my first time I'm not sure if it works that way or not. The cakes that have really collapsed look to be pretty solid but all seem to have the debris on the sides. I've included several shots of one of my better candidated from the same side right side up and flipped also a couple shots from the bottom. In the one shot I tried sto show some of the reddish brown coloration along one of the edges. Also there is a pretty good thunk when the cake shifts in the jar to the bottom and to the top. What do you think? Peace from this aging hippie.

"Sorry the first one is so blurry but hopefully you can see enough

yeah if those are flecks floating on the side they arent going to get colonized...
also, a good way to know when to fruit, is when the cake starts fruiting invitro....
i see a little opening on the bottom.. so that means theres probably a little bit not colonized in the middle (just a hunch)
solid thump you say, huh?
Its definately almost time for that sucker,
whats its name?

[delliman]

Originally Posted by DaGoon

yeah if those are flecks floating on the side they arent going to get colonized...
also, a good way to know when to fruit, is when the cake starts fruiting invitro....
i see a little opening on the bottom.. so that means theres probably a little bit not colonized in the middle (just a hunch)
solid thump you say, huh?
Its definately almost time for that sucker,
whats its name?

It' name is andromeda. Likely to be my very first. Ye-ha and hot-damn. I guess you're never too old to be a proud Papa. Peace (and excitement) from this aging hippie.

[delliman]

I've got 2 jars now ready to go to fruiting and when I take the cakes out I knoiw I'll have some vermiculite clinging to the cake. What should I do with the stuff? Should I leave it alone and don't worry about it, do I give the cakes a quick dunk to remove the vermiculite or do I somehow scrape it off the surface (Probably not this one). I'm planning to perhaps get my aquarium ready tonight with perlite for humidification. I have had a heat bomb in 1/2 gallon jar with water in the aquarium and it has kept the thing at 70-70 degrees F and the humidity has been hanging around 94% in a bare aquarium. Please, some help??? Peace from this aging hippie

[joystik]

My guess is you dont need to scrape the verm on top of the cake.

[siam_jim]

suppose to brush off or rinse off the old verm, then dunk and put fresh new verm//

siam