apparently a certain piece of the molecule creating psilocybin will accept...........

[Imachavel]

apparently a certain piece of the molecule creating psilocybin will accept analogues of whatever you give it, allowing people to create analogues of psilocybin, and no enzyme added is necessary.

I forget who it was who discovered this, but by adding certain precursor substances to mushroom mycelium they were able to come up with, well, just that, psilocybin analogues.

HAS ANYONE tried this, and eaten the mushrooms? are they better than regular mushrooms? and if so/not/either way what exactly do you do and how easy is it to do it.

[scientia]

I'm guessing maybe you are talking about this:

http://www.stainblue.com/ah.html

And if so, I'll make the same point I made in the other thread:

Point is, tryptophan DOESN'T work, and almost all other tryptamines are scheduled or watched.

So why go through the trouble of making tryptamines to feed to mushrooms when you could just make the finished products yourself?

[righteous]

I don't think that is what he is referring too.

The following is a quote from Shulgin from the currently non-functional cognitiveliberty.org (probably copyrighted)

"4-Hydroxy-5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine would be a fascinating compound to explore. The reason it's not in TIKHAL is that it is virtually unknown....... The synthesis is quite a frightening thing. It starts with ortho-vanillin and takes approximately 10 steps to get to the 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT. I'm not surprised that no one has pursued the compound.

However there is a very interesting study that took place in Leipzig about 15 years ago. Jochen Gartz, a mushroom explorer whom I know quite well, has done some fascinating studies with Psilocybe species by raising them on solid media containing strange tryptamines that are alien to the mushroom. Apparently the enzymes that are responsible for the 4-hydroxy group of psilocin are indifferent to what it is they choose to 4-hydroxylate. He has taken things like DPT or DIPT and put them in the growth media and the fruiting bodies that came out contain 4-hydroxy-DPT or 4-hydroxy-DIPT instead of psilocin. In fact, he has a patent on the process. These active compounds are made by the mushroom so they really are natural and yet they never have been observed in nature. I'll give you even odds that if you put spores of a psilocybe species on cow droppings loaded with 5-MeO-DMT you would come out with mushrooms containing 4,5-HO-MeO-DMT. This way you avoid a 10 step synthesis by growing a psychoactive mushroom that contains no illegal drug."

Now, I realize that this is the same man's work (Gartz)who claims that tryptamine will be converted into psilocin, but this I feel at least clarifies what I believe the poster was asking about....I found the patent that Shulgin referred to, but it is in German and is thus of little use unless someone can translate it.

Also, tryptophan is not tryptamine. Noone ever presented any evidence that tryptophan would work for psilocin conversion anyway.

"Point is, tryptophan DOESN'T work, and almost all other tryptamines are scheduled or watched.
So why go through the trouble of making tryptamines to feed to mushrooms when you could just make the finished products yourself?"
Tryptamine is (relatively speaking) quite easy to make from the easily acquired tryptophan and it supposedly yields mushrooms containing several times the normal amount of active ingredients. Though most anyone here would seemingly agree that psilocybin is not that hard to end up with(ie shrooms instead of chemistry) ..... Still it would seem that the tryptamine experiment would be interesting to see.

Tryptophan + a little acetone or MEK + high-boiling solvent like xylene or DMSO = after workup, a decent yield of tryptamine.

[righteous]

Oh, I just read your link more carefully and found this line:
"Recent in vitro tests conducted in the laboratory have demonstrated that the enzyme systems in Psilocybe cubensis [Figure 2] are capable of hydroxylating exogenously fed synthetic N,N-diethyltryptamine (DET) [Figure 3] to yield both CEY-19 and CZ-74"

I was thrown off by your mention of tryptophan, although I see in the article it states that it is the bioprecursor utilized by the shroom to synth psilocin...... I really can't tell what you're reffering to now.......

As to why someone would (theoretically) do this with one of these unnatural tryptamines instead of settling for psiloc(yb)in.... Well, some people are interested in novel psychedelics

[scientia]

My point was that tryptophan is the only readily available "precursor" to feed to them. Anything else is going to require a synthesis, which quite frankly, the vast majority of people growing fungus aren't going to do.

And unless these "exotic" tryptamines are VERY nice (like lsd nice), I don't see the point in wasting perfectly good DET/DMT/DiPT to make them.

I understand the novel and academic interest in it, I was just speaking from a practical standpoint.

And in the interest of academic pursuit, I would be willing to set up an experiment this summer to test the application of tryptamine to a substrate.

[Imachavel]

I'd really like to see how it comes out. And this is EXACTLY what I was referring to, so it was Shulgin that came up with this.

Anyway, yeah, if isn't lsd nice, then no, there's no point in it. On that I was asking on another forum on here if anyone has tried the trimethylammonium analogue of psilocybin, aeruginascin, from Inocybe Aeruginascens. Probably not, right?

[scientia]

I just realized this thread may be treading on RC grounds...

I'll discontinue my discussion until some mods have had a chance to evaluate things.

[shoe]

So somone clarify the options for me; im a little confused though i've read about this subject before (and am very interested)


something along the lines of 1) buy tryptophan derrivatives, 2) make tryptamine derrivatives 3) feed it to your fungus

or 1) obtain watched tryptamine derrivatives 2) feed it to your fungus.

is that correct?

[floppypeter]

Wish i had a nickel for every time someone brought this subject up. Unless you have a gas chromo set up to check your work it wouldn't be worth the effort In my opinion.