Do Spores need to dry and be rehydrated to be viable?

[shroom57]

I've been making spore prints directly onto sterilized water in half pint jars so I could just suck them up, but I've been having terrible success with germination. The sponsor spores that have been sitting in the fridge for months are doing much better!

I know some types of seeds have to dry out to be viable later, but can't find anything about spores...

Any ideas?

[mestophilies]

Spores need to be hydrated to a degree yes. I usually let mine sit in water for a few days before use.

[lebrony]

24 hour hydration should do the trick

[Sidestreet Getaway]

Are you getting bacteria or mold, or just plain nothing?

[Dr.Hallucination.]

Yes it is always a good idea to let your spores rehydrate.I would suggest taking your prints on foil or directly in the jar first"without the water".Then hydrate as needed.The reason I say this is at least this way you know approx how many spores are in the water.Unless your water has actually changed color after putting your prints above the water,How do you know spores dropped?.And if you are not seeing the water change color and then have to use multiple caps hovering over this open jar,you may end up running into even more problems.I would suggest you take your prints individually on foil first,and cover the cap with a class or a bowl or something.This helps with two things,keeping moisture in to help release the spores,and it protects the prints from the outside air keeping things clean.I do this in a glove box.Store prints in little zip lock bags and then make your syringes directly from the baggies,a very simple way of making syringes and keeping things clean.Once you make your syringes let them sit in your fridge for at least 24 hours before use.

[shroom57]

Not trying to be argumentative, but you're missing my point...

I let the caps drop directly onto sterile water while suspended in a cage of sorts in a sealed jar. I only open it inside a glovebox to drop the cap in. The number of spores in the water are pretty substantial Dr., there's no problem with recognizing the density of the print. I know what a print looks like...The syringes are also dark, it's just that they are not germinating after 8-10 days on PF substrate...no contamination.

The only thing I can think of is to let them dry out and then add sterile water to them.

Does that make more sense?

[mycowarrier]

I will just mention that spores swabbed from a fresh open cap and added to sterile WBS or rye grain germinated and colonized just as quickly as from a routinely preped syringe. Fresh dropped spores are ready and willing to germinate right away.

[shroom57]

Well,

that was what I thought...it's the same substrate I've used for years, roughly 83 d F, everything else is working and colonizing except for these I made with spore prints...not just once, but three times????

I'll let them drop onto a dry,sterile jar and see what happens when I inject sterile water in there and suck it up.

That's such a stupid thing to not be able to figure out when I'm able to do LC's from everything else...

[Jekyll]

I have the exact same problem all the time, and I've been watching it for 1 year now, what I've seen is exactly what I've heard from veterans not all shrooms drop viable spores.
The technique I use is to drop spores into a sealed container with sterilized water in a jar and a protective barrier layer. 2 out of 3 times my spores do not show growth. I've been growing for a very long while so often I employ different growth methods to save myself the loading of jars (I shoot directly into a liquid culture). This allows me to see the spores in the culture laying on the bottom of the jar, but I see no growth 2 out of 3 times, the wait time is approxiamely 3-5 days for signs.
It's a fact not all mushrooms drop viable spores.
Try shooting your spores in 1 tablespoon of PC'd karo + 75ml of water, if your jar shows no clouds your syringe is not viable. Mind you because the syringe shows a cloud doesn't mean it's not contaminated.

[mycowarrier]

There is ofcourse a difference from placing fresh spores on substate verses dropping into water and making syringes. The softer outer covering of fresh spores may cause premature sprouting and subsequent death due to lack of nutrients. That is just an uneducated guess however. Microscopic study might prove or disprove that theory. The true and proved method of a period of drying then hydrating in a syringe must be the best. Let us know how ya do .

[Dr.Hallucination.]

Originally Posted by shroom57

Not trying to be argumentative, but you're missing my point...

I let the caps drop directly onto sterile water while suspended in a cage of sorts in a sealed jar. I only open it inside a glovebox to drop the cap in. The number of spores in the water are pretty substantial Dr., there's no problem with recognizing the density of the print. I know what a print looks like...The syringes are also dark, it's just that they are not germinating after 8-10 days on PF substrate...no contamination.

The only thing I can think of is to let them dry out and then add sterile water to them.

Does that make more sense?

Ok,,,so I guess the question is,once the spores dropped,and you made the syringes,did you use them right away?or did you let them sit for a bit.Even though they fell directly into the water,they just may not have had a long enough time to fully hydrate???...

[shroom57]

Jekyll,

That makes sense, I was using LC's on some of these and know the difference between the myc cloud and most contaminants...but what are the chances that three fatties would all be sterile?

Hey, it's all good, I'll figure it out. (I hope)

Nice reply from a new poster, I'll have to give you some cred.

Thanks

[Jekyll]

I've let sterile syringes sit for months in a sterile cold enclosed container and let syringes set which I tested after 48 hours after the initial first and second drop to find the results of a dark filled inoperable, and later returning to that same syringe a month to 3 months later still a useless syringe.

[mestophilies]

hmmmm....very strange indeed. Best of luck!

[mycowarrier]

I'm guessing that experienced spore venders mix several spore sprints of the requested strain to assure the reciever will get some viable spores.

[Soliver]

Did you grow your host shrooms from a clone or from multispore?

If it's a clone, it'd make plenty of sense that they all didn't germinate - certainly not improbable for multispore
either, but less likely, I'd say. Perhaps it's time for you to invest in some new strains?

For what it's worth, I've had this happen as well - no growth, no contams, nothing. Just a jar of popcorn
drying out in my incubator... sux.



soliver

[lebrony]

For what it's worth, I've had this happen as well - no growth, no contams, nothing. Just a jar of popcorn
drying out in my incubator... sux.

i think thats whats happening to me.. no growth, no contamination, just popcorn get wrinkly and dry.. sucks big time

[feralronin]

My opinion on this varies from the type of substrate used.

I make my syringes using the bags ingecting DL water and waiting a few minutes and sterilizing and sucking back up.

I usually always do this within hours of shooting my pf cakes up. Sometimes immediately before, as I had never heard of thism or had any issue doing this.
Germination by day four on all 12 pints from 2 syringes this week.

But doing the same doesn't seem to work nearly as well with WBS or grains. I still can get germination but it seems much fewer of the spores germinate and there are times when none germinate.

I think this has to do alot with the what substrate you are using. Pf cakes are at field capacity throughout the jar.
Grains can vary in moisture and generally can't hold near the amount of water as a Pf cake, at the same size.

I think an "unhydrated" spore has a better chance to germinate in a pf cake because of the extra available water. But this is just an observation.

[Soliver]

A spore syringe has thousands of spores in there, more if you make your own darkies...

I don't see how "fewer spores germinating" would make much of a difference when we're
talking thousands upon thousands of spores - if your spores don't germinate, either you're
not hydrating your jars correctly, there's a contam, or the sprores aren't good.



soliver

[Hippie3]

a contam indeed seems most likely,
bacteria is my guess since nothing is visible.
a high bacterial load will certainly stop germination/growth cold,
seen that plenty before.