Invitro: To Flip or not? Also, do I need to be worried about these jars?

[Hobbit Girl]

Hi All,

Anyone has been following my Newbie questions in my threads knows that I've been confused about whether to flip the jars after colonization. I was under the impression that this was the practice, but then Hippie seemed to suggest it was not necessary/desirable. After just re-reading the following from the archives: http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus...tml?1039265527, I'm thinking maybe I misunderstood him. Can you please let me know if the consensus is to flip?

Also, attached is a pic of a jar that has some fluffy growth on top. Is this what is referred to as Rizomorphic growth (?)? Do I need to worry about it. FYI, my jars didn't receive enough light during incubation, so I'm still waiting for them to pin, in temp's averaging in the upper 60's.

Thanks so much, as always!

[hyphaenation]

Flip a coin ?

Naw , just kidding. I'm sure someone will chime in. Don't hold your breath for consensus though because we are a diverse bunch of individual thinkers. What works for some doesn't for others.

[DrDee]

Hi Hobbit Girl,
Since I'm not exactly sure what flipping you're referring to, I'll just tell you what I do. I remove the tape and turn the jars upside down after they're about half colonized. Seems I get faster colonization to the bottom that way. And from that point on I keep gravity pulling from tha same direction...no more flipping. Hope that helps. And your mycelial growth looks healthy and is a good thing.
Peace,
Dee

PS: Do you have hairy toes?

[Hobbit Girl]

Originally Posted by DrDee

Hi Hobbit Girl,
Since I'm not exactly sure what flipping you're referring to, I'll just tell you what I do. I remove the tape and turn the jars upside down after they're about half colonized. Seems I get faster colonization to the bottom that way. And from that point on I keep gravity pulling from tha same direction...no more flipping. Hope that helps. And your mycelial growth looks healthy and is a good thing.
Peace,
Dee

PS: Do you have hairy toes?

Excellent, DrDee. Thanks very much for the advice. It's especially good to hear you think the growth looks ok. And yes, of course, all Hobbits have hairy toes, and love mushrooms!

[mydarling]

well i don't know much about invitro growing myself, but yes i can say that growth looks just lovely, rhizomorphic indeed.

[whatisntseen]

I'm not familiar with invitro either, but from what I understand, colonization is generally done with little to no light exposure to prevent premature pinning.

[Soliver]

Consensus is certainly a difficult thing... all I can tell you is what I do that usually
works for me.

After full colonization, I flip the jars, more so that I can see what's happening in the
jars than anything else There's theories abound about when / why one should
or shouldn't flip. Most of them suggest that stalled colonization can be boosted
with a flip that (hopefully) introduces new O2 to the cake.

I would, however, suggest warmer temps, as 60's is extremely low for fruiting. You'll
be waiting a while for invitro pins at those temps - go for mid 70's and you'll see
what you want

That pic looks great to me! More than anything, invitro requires patience. Open too
many jars for a "quick look," and you'll ruin it faster than 123.

Put 'em in a warmer spot and try to forget they're there for a week or so, check, then
forget for another week. It's hard, but you'll get used to it after a few harvests.



soliver

[Soliver]

BTW - a tidbit of light is enough during incubation... a tiny light in your grow area is
all you need now for invitro. Don't sweat it - you didn't do anything wrong, it just
takes time.



soliver

[Hobbit Girl]

Originally Posted by Soliver

Consensus is certainly a difficult thing... all I can tell you is what I do that usually
works for me.

After full colonization, I flip the jars, more so that I can see what's happening in the
jars than anything else There's theories abound about when / why one should
or shouldn't flip. Most of them suggest that stalled colonization can be boosted
with a flip that (hopefully) introduces new O2 to the cake.

I would, however, suggest warmer temps, as 60's is extremely low for fruiting. You'll
be waiting a while for invitro pins at those temps - go for mid 70's and you'll see
what you want

That pic looks great to me! More than anything, invitro requires patience. Open too
many jars for a "quick look," and you'll ruin it faster than 123.

Put 'em in a warmer spot and try to forget they're there for a week or so, check, then
forget for another week. It's hard, but you'll get used to it after a few harvests.



soliver

Thanks very much, Soliver. I think you've done a lot of invitro growing, and I appreciate the advice and encouragement. I hope I haven't opened them too often now! I can't adjust the temp where they are, but hopefully the weather will turn and they will then grow more quickly. Will the lower temps just slow them down? Any extra worries about contams due to these lower temps?

[DrDee]

Hi Hobbit Girl,
Hairy toes and likes mushrooms...my kind of girl!

I did invitro for a few experiments and was disappointed with the yield. I used half gallon jars upside-down with the cake inside. A few holes in the lid for FAE. They fruited but poorly.

It was suggested to me to try a shotgun chamber which is in progress. I also have some Brazilian BRF cakes fruiting in a standard plant cloning dome. It's not a perfect solution, but it's producing fruit. Point being there are not only easier, but more productive methods then invitro. Perhaps you should consider that for your next run. I could track down a shotgun tek for you if you wish. The photo is my most productive cake...
Peace,
Dee

[Soliver]

Originally Posted by Hobbit Girl

Thanks very much, Soliver. I think you've done a lot of invitro growing, and I appreciate the advice and encouragement. I hope I haven't opened them too often now! I can't adjust the temp where they are, but hopefully the weather will turn and they will then grow more quickly. Will the lower temps just slow them down? Any extra worries about contams due to these lower temps?

I do bulk grows, but always have some invitro jars laying around for a number
of purposes, strain propagation being one They'll last in the fridge for over
a year and you can still use the myc to innoculate grains, corn, etc.
Whenever I'm starting a new strain / syringe, I always noc up a dozen
invitro jars, put 'em in a warm place, and try to forget

The lower temps will absolutely slow the growth down, but they shouldn't
contam unless you mess with them too much / at all. Ideally, you don't open
the cake until it's ready to harvest or birth or use as spawn. The more you
handle it and put it back, the higher chance you have of contaming a
perfectly good jar... hands off!

I'd suggest finding or creating a warmer spot. A small light bulb works wonders.
Buy a small thermometer to check temps wherever you plan on moving them
to, just to be sure... there's lots of cozy spots around the house that
no one ever looks.. above the water heater, inside a computer case,
an attic near the roof, etc. Be creative

soliver

[Hobbit Girl]

Originally Posted by DrDee

Hi Hobbit Girl,
Hairy toes and likes mushrooms...my kind of girl!

I did invitro for a few experiments and was disappointed with the yield. I used half gallon jars upside-down with the cake inside. A few holes in the lid for FAE. They fruited but poorly.

It was suggested to me to try a shotgun chamber which is in progress. I also have some Brazilian BRF cakes fruiting in a standard plant cloning dome. It's not a perfect solution, but it's producing fruit. Point being there are not only easier, but more productive methods then invitro. Perhaps you should consider that for your next run. I could track down a shotgun tek for you if you wish. The photo is my most productive cake...
Peace,
Dee

I've never heard of the shotgun tek. If it's stealthy and easy, yes I would appreciate info. Thanks!

[Hobbit Girl]

Originally Posted by Soliver

I do bulk grows, but always have some invitro jars laying around for a number
of purposes, strain propagation being one They'll last in the fridge for over
a year and you can still use the myc to innoculate grains, corn, etc.
Whenever I'm starting a new strain / syringe, I always noc up a dozen
invitro jars, put 'em in a warm place, and try to forget

The lower temps will absolutely slow the growth down, but they shouldn't
contam unless you mess with them too much / at all. Ideally, you don't open
the cake until it's ready to harvest or birth or use as spawn. The more you
handle it and put it back, the higher chance you have of contaming a
perfectly good jar... hands off!

I'd suggest finding or creating a warmer spot. A small light bulb works wonders.
Buy a small thermometer to check temps wherever you plan on moving them
to, just to be sure... there's lots of cozy spots around the house that
no one ever looks.. above the water heater, inside a computer case,
an attic near the roof, etc. Be creative

soliver

I think this is without doubt the most helpful advice I've received so far. Thanks, Solliver. I definitely have opened/flipped, messed with the jars too much. In a couple of cases where it looked like I had contam areas, I bleach dipped, but I wasn't careful enough about handling the contam'd jars. All in all a steep learning curve. Still, I'm hoping that in the end a decent personal stash will result. Thanks again very much for your advice.

[kaliman]

Depending on how you innoculate and maybe which type of mushroom you use, its possible that you will get the first mushrooms born form older mycellium and it may be in the bottom of the jar. That is why some people flip the jars (if they want mushrooms from the top of the cake or want them faster).

Also some believe that the CO2, Oxigen and water circulation is inverted and it will benefit the culture by making it homogeneous.

I think that people conscensus will not work much here, but mushroom ecology results.

I feel you are in the right track and getting sound advice from our freinds here. Also your positive attitude make it even better.

Cheers and good luck!

[Soliver]

Originally Posted by Hobbit Girl

I think this is without doubt the most helpful advice I've received so far. Thanks, Solliver. I definitely have opened/flipped, messed with the jars too much. In a couple of cases where it looked like I had contam areas, I bleach dipped, but I wasn't careful enough about handling the contam'd jars. All in all a steep learning curve. Still, I'm hoping that in the end a decent personal stash will result. Thanks again very much for your advice.

On the first grow, it's normal to be too hands-on... it's all very exciting, and
you want to see it all happening, up close

All the same, mycelium is pretty forgiving, to a point, especially once it has
fully colonized the substrate. If you're jonesing more activity with your cakes,
pull a couple out of the jars and birth them to a simple fruiting chamber
(plastic shoebox with damp perlite on the bottom), that way you get to
look 2x / day while fanning and misting. It's quite fun the first time, even
the second time, but after a few grows (and a bit of goodies stashed away)
your patience will wane, and you'll be researching bulk tubs and leaving
innoculated invitro jars for weeks without peeking.



soliver