Hold my hand please : 1st B+ BRF cake : birth to fruit

[RichShroom]

Hi Folks,

Right, let me first get a couple of things out of the way:

• I've read a heck of a lot and done a lot of homework, so this thread now doesn't come from a base point of ignorance ...
• I've mucked about with some off-the-wall, left-of-centre ideas, but I right here right now I'm wanting to play it by the book ...
• I've been irreverant at times, but am currently bowing in obedient respect to those who have grown before me ...
• And finally, we can all sometimes get hung up on yield, yield, yield, but my motto here in this thread is safe, safe, safe ...

So what am I on about then ?

I have waited close to 8 weeks, been throught the schelp of 30 jars of boiling, innoculation, and incubation to get past a first grow round with dead spores to finally get to the current point of my first jar ever approaching full colonisation = B+ in Brown Rice Flour cake @ 250 ml / .5 pint.

I've got approx 2 square cm of exposed substrate left to colonise. By this time tomorrow, we'll have 100% coverage.

So for this first jar, I want to take a safe conservative approach to maximise my chances of healthy fruit.

[ For the record: I have 15 more jars on the way to colonisation ... plenty of material & time to refine my approach and try the funky stuff ... Jar 1 is however not to be trifled with ]

I would greatly appreciate some hand-holding for my first baby steps between the birth and the harvest of my 1st flush - repeated again - with advice with an eye to maximum chance of success, not max speed, or max size, or max yield.

We all on the same page ?

Question 1: How many days post-colonisation before birthing

Once I have 100% coverage, how many extra days are recommended in my tub-in-a-tub incubator = fish tank water heater with an air-thermometer measured 32°C at the base, black lightproof tubs, 2 towel covers, quiet corner, inside, under a chest of drawers.

• Do I count off say 3 days ?
• Or wait for a pin to form ?

I'm not in a rush (well I am deep inside, but my common sense says patience will have its reward).

Question 2: To dunk or not to dunk

My jar mix was 1 : 2 : 1 = brf : verm : water so it was on the damp side of the PF scale. I have crystal clear liquid (water ?) trapped between the myc and the glass ... no sign of dryness or water starvation.

Do I need to dunk ? Yes dunk > yield ... but is dunk > risk ? Would it be best to skip out the post-birth dunk, and dunk after 1st successful flush & harvest ?

If I am advised to dunk, do I:

• shake off excess vermiculite = the top air-filter contam-barrier layer ?
• rinse the cake under cold tap water ?
• submerge in tap water in a sealed container ?
• add a little bleach / hydrogen peroxide ?
  • if yes, how much ?
  • at what concentration ?
• fridge the dunking container & contents ?
• 12 hour / overnight or full 24 hours ?
• do I rinse again after removing from the container ?
  • if yes, tap water again ?

Question 3: To case or not to case

Am I advised to case, and if yes do I:

• roll the damp cake lightly in fine ground vermiculite
• cover the top of the cake in a 1cm / .5" layer of vermiculite

Question 4: My simplest Terrarium set up is as follows:

Answer True or False with comment:

• new 50 litre plastic tub, clear sides, flap top ?
• washed in soapy water, bleach wiped ?
• if I'm going to be fanning, do I need side air holes ?
  • if yes, shotgun style, with micropore ?
  • or bigger holes with polyester cloth filter ?
• perlite layer on the bottom, 5cm or 2" deep ?
• perlite pre-soaked in water, or water with
• add a lot of salt / little bleach / hydrogen peroxide ?
  • if yes, how much ?
  • at what concentration ?
• do I place my cake on a little pedestal, say an upturned / inverted tumbler ?
  • and / or a layer of silver foil ?
  • and / or a layer of vermiculite ?
• must I avoid the base of the cake being allowed to touch the damp perlite ?

Sheez ... a lot of little point-by-point annoying little questions ... and I know how much of a tedious hassle it is to work with the (quote)(/quote) tags ... so feel free just to respond in the easiest way for you ... forget the formatting, I'll piece answers together.

Remember, my motto here is risk vs reward.

If any of the above steps are unneccessary, or fall into the 'nice-to-have' category, tell me to leave them out. If any of the steps (or others I may have missed) will lessen my chance of contamination, or some other awful cock-up, please shout loud & clear.

I'll follow the general consensus advice, and document, and report back with pics in this thread. Once the baby is in the nice humid nursery, I'll bug you all again with questions on fanning & air exchange.

My local indoor temps are a daytime high of 21°C to a night time low of 14°C for the next 4 weeks.

Cheers ... thanks



Rich

[stimpy]

scrape the verm layer off the cake when u birth it. Rinse it , dunk it overnight, then roll in verm and double end case it in a shotgun chamber is my reccomendation. You dont need micropore on the air holes in a fruiting chamber. Dunking is always better than not dunking, do it before every flush. You dont need to but it is worth it and it increases yield. Healthy hydrated mycellium can fight off contams better than dry tired myc. Shrooms are 90% water -/+. They will be small if they dont have hydration.

[Om shanti]

This is just what I do, not necessarily the best way, but here goes, your questions in italic, what I do in normal.

• Do I count off say 3 days ?
• Or wait for a pin to form ?

I'm not in a rush (well I am deep inside, but my common sense says patience will have its reward).
I usually wait for a week after the entire surface of cake(s) are colonized. If more cakes are to be fruited I usually let the fastest colonizers wait a bit longer, and perhaps the slowest a bit less, so all cakes can be dunked and fruited at the same time.
Question 2: To Dunk or not to dunk

My jar mix was 1 : 2 : 1 = BRF : verm : water so it was on the damp side of the PF scale. I have crystal clear liquid (water ?) trapped between the myc and the glass ... no sign of dryness or water starvation.

Do I need to Dunk ? Yes Dunk > yield ... but is Dunk > risk ? Would it be best to skip out the post-birth Dunk , and Dunk after 1st successful flush & harvest ?
I always dunk for the first flush. I don't think the lifetime yield of the cake will increase this way, but the first flush yield will be increased.
If I am advised to Dunk , do I:

• shake off excess vermiculite = the top air-filter contam-barrier layer ? yes
• rinse the cake under cold tap water ? yes
• submerge in tap water in a sealed container ? yes
• add a little bleach / hydrogen peroxide ? I have never done it but it might be good especially for later flushes, I have never had a contam on the first flush.
  • if yes, how much ?
  • at what concentration ?
• fridge the dunking container & contents ? yes
• 12 hour / overnight or full 24 hours ? I go for 12-24 hours, haven't noticed much difference actually.
• do I rinse again after removing from the container ? I don't.
  • if yes, tap water again ?

Question 3: To case or not to case

Am I advised to case, and if yes do I:

• roll the damp cake lightly in fine ground vermiculite
• cover the top of the cake in a 1cm / .5" layer of vermiculite

I usually do a DEC - double end casing. Put the cake on a layer of vermiculite on a small clean plate or something similar, and a top layer of vermiculite as well. When I have dunked I don't wet the bottom vermiculite too much at first.

Question 4: My simplest Terrarium set up is as follows:

Answer True or False with comment:

• new 50 litre plastic tub, clear sides, flap top ? yes
• washed in soapy water, bleach wiped ? should be fine
• if I'm going to be fanning, do I need side air holes ? If you're going to be fanning a lot you won't need airholes IME. But a bit of passive ventilation won't hurt. I never did shotgun style holes in a tub, only polyester filled.
  • if yes, shotgun style, with micropore ?
  • or bigger holes with polyester cloth filter ?
• Perlite layer on the bottom, 5cm or 2" deep ? I don't like a layer of minerals at the bottom, but that's just my personal preference. I can see it works well for those who use it, I just think it's a mess. I prefer to mist instead, and perhaps have some small glasses with wet vermiculite. But it's probably better to follow the perlite consensus.
• Perlite pre-soaked in water, or water with
• add a lot of salt / little bleach / hydrogen peroxide ?
  • if yes, how much ?
  • at what concentration ?
• do I place my cake on a little pedestal, say an upturned / inverted tumbler ?
  • and / or a layer of silver foil ? yes or a small flat plate is what I use
  • and / or a layer of vermiculite ? I do
• must I avoid the base of the cake being allowed to touch the damp Perlite ? yes, especially if the perlite is really full of water

BTW, the temperatures sound a bit low (57-70F/14-21C ~ average temperature below 20C/62F I presume), if you could manage to increase them a bit shrooms would be a lot merrier.

Good luck!

[Coopdog]

Thanks Rich for asking all these detailed questions, I have several times gotten answers to my own questions by reading your posts. COol we got the same stuff goin on right now.

[RichShroom]

Originally Posted by Om shanti

This is just what I do, not necessarily the best way, but here goes, your questions in italic, what I do in normal.
.
<snip>
.
Good luck!

Thanks Om ...

for your time & effort,
and, as usual,
your patience & kindness.

Rich

[tbonus]

Originally Posted by Coopdog

Thanks Rich for asking all these detailed questions, I have several times gotten answers to my own questions by reading your posts. COol we got the same stuff goin on right now.

Yea, I have to second thatThe only dumb question is the one not asked.I've even asked the same question several times just to be sure.Sending GOOD growing vibes your way,my friend.GLUK

[Om shanti]

You're most welcome, Rich! BTW, I have the impression that a lot of people here do use bleach dunking with a lot of success, and especially when the primary object is to minimize risk of contamination that would probably not be a bad idea to look in to.

[RichShroom]

Originally Posted by Om shanti

I have the impression that a lot of people here do use bleach dunking with a lot of success, and especially when the primary object is to minimize risk of contamination that would probably not be a bad idea to look in to.

Hippie3's Basic Bleach Tek
http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus...tml?1043192825A quote on (cough) that site from a supporter of the Hipster wisdom said the following:

Bleach! I've been using it for years in dunks and misting with nice results. The key is not to use to high of a ratio. 1:200 or even 1:100 works like a charm. I keep a mist bottle with a 1:100 ratio for misting my casings in between flushes. I clean the casings up real good and give them a rinse then a bleach mist all over the casing to get the bacteria and unwanted spores.

So I'm going to go with 1:200 bleach solution as follows:

• rinse birthed cake under tap
• add 1/2 teaspoon = 2.5ml bleach to my 500ml Feta cheese dunk container
• fill to 500ml with tap water
• split bleach water into 2nd container = 250ml in each
• add 1 cake to each container = 225ml ( 250ml jar - 25ml verm filter layer - shrinkage )

Cheers

[RichShroom]

Coop

Thought you might wanna read this:

RogerRabbit said:
For years, anytime someone would say to give an extra week to allow the center to colonize, I'd jump in and try to set the record straight, but I got tired of typing the same thing dozens of times for nothing, so now I only type it once a month or so.

When the outsides of a jar are fully colonized, the center will be also. There is far more substrate on the outside edge of the jar(because it has more area) than on the inside, so there's no way the inside would not be colonized as well.

The reason for waiting a week after full colonization is to allow the mycelium to consolidate its hold on the substrate. Until the mycelium digests some of the substrate it has colonized, it will not fruit. If you birth the day of full colonization, the week spent consolidating the hold, will be a week spent drying out the cake, thus making pinning harder and yields weak. If you wait a week after full colonization, pins often form within 48 hours of birthing/dunk and roll.

To add my conjecture to the above - if it's gonna take the same time to get to the pinning stage inside or outside its little jar home ... then inside is safer from contams than outside.

If you haven't been doing that, this little wait might help reduce your run in with the germ baddies ?

Rich

[PreCubescent]

most definitly watching this threads lots of good information here

[RichShroom]

Originally Posted by Om shanti

Question 3: To case or not to case

I usually do a DEC - double end casing. Put the cake on a layer of vermiculite on a small clean plate or something similar, and a top layer of vermiculite as well. When I have dunked I don't wet the bottom vermiculite too much at first.

Okay so far ... all going well !

1st eager beaver cake has been fully colonised now for 4 days, Saturday is day 6, which will be when I birth the baby out of its glass womb, a nice dilute bleach overnight bath, and then into the nursery.

The other cakes are lining up to complete colonisation, I'll have one finishing every day or 2 for the next 2 weeks.

About cake #1 and that DEC.

At the moment, the cake is upside down in its incubator, and has an airgap of 1cm or 1/2"between itself & the glass bottom (now top). Is is doing ots best to fill the whole space with a brilliant thick white fluffy cloud of mycelium.

Should I trap all this goodness under verm ?
Could I just bottom-case for the first flush ?

My (inexperienced) heart tells me that this myc layer looks sooo nice & juicy and expects pins/fruit to explode from there.

Does that make sense, or am I just mistakenly in love with the cloud ?

Advice ?

[Om shanti]

I see what you mean, but I have no idea on this one. When you're also dunking for the first flush it will probably not make a massive difference. As an experiment, you could put some vermiculite on only one half of the top, and see what happens..?

Unless someone chimes in with a definite answer to this question, then just follow your intuition, and see what happens IMO. Will be interesting to see!

[arcamedes333]

hey buddy check out RR mushroom video on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHJQr...om=PL&index=19

Watch all of the pf tek video series, i followed it to the T and had great success on my first grow.

[MLBjammer]

If you are going to add casing layers to the cake, you might as well do both ends. After all, the double-end case simply creates a better microclimate for growth--and it certainly won't hurt the mycelium. In my experience, dunking is the key to good flushes with PF cakes. When the cake feels light, dunk it. You can get 4-5 flushes this way. As far as the bleach dip, I wouldn't use it unless there are contam issues with your cakes. Fully-colonized cakes are damn resistant to contaminants as long as you are fairly clean in your growing procedure. Good luck!

[RichShroom]

[ deleted ]

[RichShroom]

[ Post is mostly a duplicate from another thread - some of it is relevant to both threads ]

The big event ... the birth of my first cake !

For the record - vital stastics:

• it is a BRF
• B+
• colonised 100% on day 17 from innoculation
• birthed from jar last night on day 22
• rinsed & dunked & overnighted in fridge - straight water (discovered that my bleach has smell-nice additives ... was wary)
• roll cased this morning on day 23

So here is photographic evidence of my very own 1st ever Stain Blue ... w00t:



I had a little moment of inspiration when casing & setting up in the new nusery / shotgun terrarium / fruiting chamber.

Here's what I did, a little innovation:

• made a cardboard circle, 2cm or 1" bigger than the cake bottom diameter
• snipped 1cm or 1/2" cuts inwards from edge all around, spaced 1cm apart
• folded the cut flaps upwards, each new fold overlapping the last flap
• covered the resulting little cuplet in foil both sides
• folded & crimped the foil nice & tight - gave it a lable with a permanent marker
• filled the mini-reservoir with verm & water
• gently sat my roll cased cake onto its mini-pedestal

This is what it looks like: