Is the pf tek cake supposed to sit with the verm layer on top or bottom?

[PhiLLyFiLL]

Once a cake is completely covered in white mycelium, you can wait up to 2 more weeks before taking the cake out of the jar. When you are ready, and in a fairly clean room, begin transferring the cakes from their jars into their fruiting chamber (described in the next step).
Remove the lid of each jar, and dump out the dry vermiculite on top. Then, put the lid back over the top of the jar. Slowly turn the jar upside down, so that the cake is resting on the jar lid. You may need to gently tap the jar to knock the cake loose.
Take the jar off the top of the cake and then carefully pick up the cake and turn it over, so it is sitting right side up on the lid. It is very important that the cake is fruited in the same orientation (with the same side up) as it had when it was incubating.



I read the above statment at a grow site, but I always had the verm layer sit down on the tinfoil/perlite. Is the verm supposed to be wiped off a bit and turned over? On one of my cakes I noticed most the pins and fruits on the bottom of the cake where the verm is when its sitting on the jar lid.

[Om shanti]

I also always let the cake sit on the verm layer.. that is, in the opposite orientation to when its incubating.

It is very important that the cake is fruited in the same orientation (with the same side up) as it had when it was incubating.

I never heard that theory before...

[the_chosen_one]

either or. i do mine verm side up, but i wick, so the upper layer fits my method better.

[Raziel]

Originally Posted by Om shanti

I also always let the cake sit on the verm layer.. that is, in the opposite orientation to when its incubating.


I never heard that theory before...

Nor me, I would guess it only matters when it starts to pin, obviously do not flip it mid flush.

You should let your cake sit on the layer of verm that was in the jars so just birth the cake by tipping upside down. Get a handfull of moist vermiculite and dump some on top of the cake so it has a verm layer both ends, this is very popular and is known as "double end casing".

[the_chosen_one]

here's a pic.. from the old PF redspore thread.

[Om shanti]

Originally Posted by the_chosen_one

here's a pic.. from the old PF redspore thread.

Wauw, that's one happy looking cake.

[Soliver]

Originally Posted by PhiLLyFiLL

It is very important that the cake is fruited in the same orientation (with the same side up) as it had when it was incubating.

I call BULLSHIT on that statement. Hell, I usually flip my cakes about 1/2
the way through colonization - so should I fruit them sideways?

The cake will pin and the fruits will orient themselves to whatever light
source you offer them... your source is off..



soliver

[gnostic19]

Originally Posted by Om shanti

Wauw, that's one happy looking cake.

I call that a Chub Munch.

[ez_goin]

Originally Posted by Raziel

Nor me, I would guess it only matters when it starts to pin, obviously do not flip it mid flush.

Is this true? I tend to flip my cakes mid-flush a lot. This is due to the fact that I fruit on dish drying trays that are just wires (for a lack of better words at the moment). Quite often I get pins and mush on the bottom of the cake due to the reflection of light off the perlite.

When this happens I tend to flip the cakes so that the pins/mush are faced up and don't grow into the perlite on the bottom.

[Soliver]

There's more than one way to skin a cake,
as long as it's working for you, don't sweat it.



soliver

[PhiLLyFiLL]

Originally Posted by Soliver

There's more than one way to skin a cake,
as long as it's working for you, don't sweat it.



soliver

How do you skin a cake??

[Jose_sixpac]

Soliver, great avatar.


good read, really liken the tasty cake pic, happy lil fun-guys.

Shout out to my Homies in Philly.

[firerat]

Originally Posted by Soliver

...Hell, I usually flip my cakes about 1/2
the way through colonization ......

Thats what I do and have found it helps with stalled cakes.

Never caused me a problem when I fruit them upright.

[PhiLLyFiLL]

Thanks for all the info. guys. Here is the website link to where I read this grow manual. http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/pictures/mmgg02.htm
here is the link where it talks about flipping the cake. http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/pictures/mmgg02.htm

[Soliver]

Ah.. the MMGG. Misinformation at it's best, IMO... the first version caused me more
grief than I like to recall. Ditch that bull-plop and stick to getting your info from peeps
actively improving the hobby

soliver

[PhiLLyFiLL]

Originally Posted by Soliver

Ah.. the MMGG. Misinformation at it's best, IMO... the first version caused me more
grief than I like to recall. Ditch that bull-plop and stick to getting your info from peeps
actively improving the hobby

soliver

Agreed.

[coyoteyogi]

It's only important to turn the cakes upside down if you're doing a southern hemisphere strain like Tkanskei, Tasmanians or Amazonians. If you're doing a northern strain like Mazatec keep the cakes right side up. Also, if you're doing ecuadorians, lay the cakes on their sides.

[Scratch]

Originally Posted by the_chosen_one

either or. i do mine verm side up, but i wick,
so the upper layer fits my method better.

In your picture the cake is sitting in a glass dish
with vermiculite. Is that part of the wick process?

[PhiLLyFiLL]

What about when doing the pf tek put verm on top plus a little on the bottom, because the like to pin by the verm an awful lot?

[the_chosen_one]

Originally Posted by Scratch

In your picture the cake is sitting in a glass dish
with vermiculite. Is that part of the wick process?

yes. the mechanics are very simple. custard dish.. the deeper ones are better than the shallow. bottom half wet perlite, top half wet verm. the cake is pushed into the verm somewhat. almost to the perlite, but the verm acts as a buffer. water is fed into the dish via syringe or spray bottle. depends on how lazy i am at the time lol. i also lightly soak the top layer of verm on the cake so it's getting water from both sides like dec. water is typically added every few days.

it does take practice.. most tend to over water by keeping a steady level. let it use some of the water in the dish first, then add.

[Scratch]

Originally Posted by the_chosen_one

let it use some of the water in the dish first, then add.

Interesting, I think I'd like to try that. Not sure I like
the sound of water sitting in the dish though. How
much water we talking about, a couple drops, 1/2 way
up the perlite layer, fill the custard dish to the top?

[the_chosen_one]

Originally Posted by Scratch

Interesting, I think I'd like to try that. Not sure I like
the sound of water sitting in the dish though. How
much water we talking about, a couple drops, 1/2 way
up the perlite layer, fill the custard dish to the top?

lol i know. sounds like a bacteria pool waiting to happen. but most of the time the cakes will go through all thier flushes before it becomes an issue. if it looks like trouble is brewing the whole dish can be dumped, cleaned and remade, but i rarely have to. keeping a clean fc helps too.

to the top of the perlite layer.. just barely into the verm is ok too. let it drop 30-40% about midway down the perlite then add more. gently use a spray bottle to moisten the verm on the perlite if needed. if this layer tends to dry then there are fae and or rh issues. the verm layer on top of the cake may require water a little more frequently. you'll want to soak it, but not so much that it dribbles down the sides of the cake. if the fruits are wet then back off a bit. it becomes a rather fast operation once one gets used to it.

[the_chosen_one]

var. malabar india same method.

and it can be done on a larger scale as well.. var. falbino tub.

[Scratch]

Thanks for the tips.
I'm gonna give that a try!

[tbonus]

Thanks TCO,your wisdom is greatly appreciated

[the_chosen_one]

Originally Posted by PhiLLyFiLL

What about when doing the pf tek put verm on top plus a little on the bottom, because the like to pin by the verm an awful lot?

one thing for sure is cakes fruit better with more than one hydration point. dec is better than just one side with verm imo. whether it's dunk and roll or this dec / wicking hybrid method* proper hydration is critical to good performance and both work well. each has it's pro's and con's depending on the individual cultivator. this is why we also have casing and bulk

*keep in mind when i began this method i was getting an ear full form PF (developer of dec for PF cakes) on one side and had Hip (developer of the PF cake dunking method) on the other. aahh the good ol' days things were a lot different while these teks were being written.
both are of the highest influences to me, and both have my ultimate respect and friendship.. so i tread lightly and created a happy merger of both
i call it hybrid because it's not true wicking either, which is resting the cakes on a mostly submerged bed of perlite or equivelant hydroponic stones. there is no verm buffer at all and there is typically a lot more water involved. this method is more of a dec that gets a continuous slo-mo dunk.

ooohhh! also, my PF tek is a little different as well. more designed for dec/whm. so i guess i'm gonna have to cram in time to get that posted as well. i would not recommend this method with supercake formulas etc. loading up the food source too heavily can cause inconsistencies.