PF to Grain Jars

[xurzax]

I've been searching around for the past week or so looking for the answers to these questions but haven't been able to find them anywhere, I apologize in advance if the answers I'm looking for is readily available and I'm just to blind to see them.

I've read that you can use fully colonized PF cakes as master jars for doing grain to grain transfers, but I cant seem to find any information on the proper procedure for doing so.

When first opening the PF master jar, how should I remove the dry vermiculite with a minimal amount of contaminant spores falling onto the cake?

Opening a jar with a section devoted to collecting contaminates in the glove box where the transfers are taking place seems like a bad idea, opening the jar about to be used to innoculate a handful of grain jars in open air seems equally bad. Should this be done in a secondary glovebox to avoid cross conamination?

As I see it theres no way to fully remove the dry vermiculite from the cakes without atleast some of the trapped contaminant spores falling through onto the top of the cake. Would misting the exposed side of the cake with peroxide or giving the entire cake a short bleach dunk before starting transfers be advisable?

I'm guessing a fork or similar utensil would be necessary for transferring chunks of colonized cake for one jar to the other, what method of sterilization is best suited for this?
(I do all my clean work in a large glovebox with 2 ionizers running in the back of it, I fear excessive alcohol fumes from large open dishes of isopropyl being ignited by sparks from said ionizers. They can always be turned off during the transfers but if theres anyway I can have the added measure of sterility it would be quite reasurring)

If this TEK is out dated and no longer considered to be a viable way to produce more spawn I still wouldnt mind knowing what other peoples method of removing the dry vermiculite barrier from their PF cakes.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for taking the time to read through it, any help offered is greatly appreciated.

[Om shanti]

My 0.02:

I have done cake-to-cake transfer inside a glovebox. And you could certainly do it to grain too.

I simply dumped the vermiculite barrier on the bottom of the glovebox, but you're right there is a potential risk in doing that. Still, I would say it's not too big. But I should say I used a spawn ratio of about 1:3 or something, and with that high a ratio it would have to be some VERY aggressive mold spores or very weak mycelium, for any mold to be able to take hold before the mycelium. The lower the ratio, the more important the cleanliness I guess.

You could hold a clean plastic bag around the jar when opening the lid and collect the top layer in that.

I have used forks or spoons to break up the cakes. Sometimes I sterilized them in the PC together with the new cakes, other times I just wiped them with lysol some time before using them. With regards to breaking up cakes, I usually made the cake-to-cake transfer to cake spawn in bags. In that case most of the breaking up can be done after the mycelium has been transferred and the bag closed.


Good luck!

[xurzax]

Thank you for such a quick response, I'll have to sacrifice a few of my colonized jars and try cake to cake transfers in bags.

This is slightly off topic, but did you sterilize the new cake mix in jars then move it to the bags of did you sterilize it directly in the bags?
And if you sterilized it while in bags where the bags used store bought or home made?

I have no access to autoclavable spawn bags locally and have a strong distaste for ordering mycology related items online. If you used the bags for sterilization have you ever tried using oven bags with polyfil plugs?
I've seen a few TEKs floating around for home made spawn bags, but none of them seem to mention a preferred brand of bag for doing so. Are all oven bags created equal or is there a specific brand in particular I should be looking for?

Thanks in advance for any further guidance you can offer.

[Om shanti]

I have made my own bags. They are plastic bags that are meant for cooking. I am not sure if it said they could take 100C or 110C on the package. (Since I'm in europe it probably wouldn't help you if I looked for a brand name.) Then I use polyfill for filter, and regular tape for closing around the filter/opening of the bag. I put the bags inside open 1 liter jars for sterilizing. I think that's a good idea to do - at least make sure they don't touch the bottom or the sides of the FC, since the temperatures here might be substantially higher than the steam. But to answer your question - I sterilize the substrate inside the bags (inside jars) :-)


I sterilize for 1,5 hours when putting about 3 half pint cakes worth of substrate in each bag.

In terms of sterility I am certain these bags are not competitive with real spawn bags, micropore filters, etc. There are probably much better ways to make them. I wouldn't be too worried about ordering mycology items online though.

BTW, let me say I'm not advocating cake spawn over grain. I'm just not good with grains myself, that's the only reason I prefer cakes.

[xurzax]

Thats awesome, thanks for all the help

Last questions, I promise
With the polyfil taped into the opening of the bag like that, how do you transfer colonized material into it?
Is the polyfil attached in the glovebox after the cake is crumbled in?
And have you ever let a bag like that go invitro?

[Om shanti]

Originally Posted by xurzax

Thats awesome, thanks for all the help

Last questions, I promise
With the polyfil taped into the opening of the bag like that, how do you transfer colonized material into it?
Is the polyfil attached in the glovebox after the cake is crumbled in?
And have you ever let a bag like that go invitro?

You're welcome, but I'd search a bit and look at the vaults before deciding. :-)

You're right about the polyfill. I put that on afterwards. When sterilizing, the openings of the bags are lightly closed to allow a bit of breathing with rubber bands + alu foil. I let them sit in the closed PC and take them directly to the clean glovebox after it has all cooled down. You might want to sterilize the polyfill too.

I only used this for spawning, I never tried doing these invitro, and I am not certain if the polyfill filter would allow proper FAE the way I have made them. But with the right adjustments from trial and error I guess it should be possible.

Good luck anyway.