10 cakes = what to do?

robo · 08-05-09, 04:01

Hello there.

I have some cakes and i would like to make 10 casings.
I have those folium food boxes and i was wondering what is the best option...

I have nice horse poo, coir and vermiculite...

How would you make those 10 boxes with ingidients I have?

Last time i just mixed it with COIR and VERM and shrooms were really tiny.
But now i have poo and maybe there is some way to get better yield using the same folium boxes...

Thanks for all the help!

TastyBeverage · 08-05-09, 04:31

I can't tell exactly how big your containers are, but those little jars look quite small to me as does the tray. Since most of the boomer in your pic are still immature, i think that's a fair flush for that sized box and you mixed with non nutritives. Adding the poo will will definitely give you better yield, but try making a smaller number of larger trays as well.

MLBjammer · 08-05-09, 04:35

Coir and vermiculite are casing materials, meaning they are mostly non-nutritious and provide moisture for the substrate. Poo is a bulk substrate in that it is nutritious, and you spawn the cakes to the poo. The poo must be pastuerized, not sterilized. The higher the spawn-to-bulk ratio (say 1 parts spawn to 2 parts bulk, but you can go anywhere from 1:6 to 1:1), the better your chances of success. You should read some teks and grow logs in the vaults--under dung and compost, bulk substrates, etc. Many have success using monotubs and/or big fruiting bags for bulk grows. The cakes in the pics look very healthy, so you have many options for fruiting. The little pans should work, but there are many methods. Good luck.

robo · 08-05-09, 04:41

I would make larger tub but the thing is that there are 3 different strains in those jars and i have no idea what is what so i cant put 2 or more of those cakes in one bulk...

So i should spawn it with poo and incubate and then add verm + coir casing incubate again and then fruit?

And those jars are 230 ml and 400 ml...

GadgetGuy · 08-05-09, 04:42

See this is what has me confused. I hear it on both extreme ends of the spectrum. Coir can kick ass, Coir can suck. I haven't really come to a good consensus on what to think about this aside from the fact that the one time I tried Coir for a few casings it blew nuts and contaminated. I'm sure it was a mistake I made. I personally would grind all those cakes up in a 1 gallon zip lock bag, buy a 30qt rubbermaid tub and spawn it to poo in a 1:1 or 1:2 spawn to poo/verm ratio. I wish you luck with your adventure my friend. IMO those trays are too shallow to get any real large fruits if that is what you are after..... What are they 2" deep? 3" -5" deep trays have worked well for me in the past with 5" giving me the big boys. I've never tried deeper than that but I've heard that after a certain point deeper than that is not helping so much.

Ah you posted while I was posting lol. 3 different strains, I couldn't help you there. I've seen people mix strains in tubs and kept them separated 1/2 and 1/2 in the tub but 3....Not sure. That would be a great experiment in a large tub. Dive in and try it!

Oh and every time I have used horse poo I get larger flushes and fruits as well vs. just casing a cake or even trying the Rez effect.

MLBjammer · 08-05-09, 05:58

Coir is good stuff. It definitely needs to be prepped well, though, pouring boiling water over it and soaking for 15 minutes or so.

Robo, you want to pasteurize your poo/coir/vermiculite, then mix spawn, then incubate. Good luck!

PsyBearknot · 08-05-09, 06:53

Recently Hippie3 dropped a link for the Hongus tek in a different thread that I had missed while looking through the archives/vaults.

http://forums.mycotopia.net/mushroom...k-reprint.html (Casing For Dummies : Hongus Tek reprint)

If I had the jars, poo/coir/verm and trays Id think about following the Hongus tek but mixing the poo/coir together and use that for the bottom of the tray then proceed with breaking the cakes up and casing with the verm. Check out that tek good pictorial and instructions.

PBK

robo · 08-05-09, 07:27

Great! I will follow this tek!
Thank you guys!
You are great as always!

P4ulada · 08-05-09, 08:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by robo

Great! I will follow this tek!
Thank you guys!
You are great as always!

Hey bro, but...about the different strains...I think isn´t too good to mix the cakes of different strains, ´cause it could cause competition btw them =/
I don´t know if this occur in this way, but....IMO ^^
Good luck

...and sorry about my gramatical errors =/

robo · 08-05-09, 08:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by P4ulada

Hey bro, but...about the different strains...I think isn´t too good to mix the cakes of different strains, ´cause it could cause competition btw them =/
I don´t know if this occur in this way, but....IMO ^^
Good luck

...and sorry about my gramatical errors =/

Yea... I am aware of that and it is the reason why i want to case every cake in different tray...

MLBjammer · 08-05-09, 08:52

Here's a short, good thread on the topic of mixing strains: http://forums.mycotopia.net/fungi-gr...in-mixing.html (Quick question about strain mixing?)

From what I have found, you are better off just growing smaller trays now than investing a lot of energy and resources in something larger. There is always the next grow. But you should have good results if you follow the Hongus Tek--it is a classic.

robo · 08-05-09, 10:47

Hmmm... I have this very good horse poo but in Hongus Tek its not added...
If i want to add horse poo how should i do it in this case?

MLBjammer · 08-05-09, 11:13

The Hongus Tek is all about learning how to case properly. Poo is not a casing--you want mix it with your cakes so that the mycelium will spawn to the poo, making a bigger ("bulk") substrate. You could add vermiculite and/or coir to the poo and cakes. But you have to let the bulk incubate a while (more or less a week), then put it in fruiting conditions. Whether you case it or not is up to you. I have had success without casing, and many DO NOT case bulk subs. Personally I would skip the casing, but every grower is different. Just follow a tek, and ask many questions. We are here to help

.

Hippie3 · 08-05-09, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by robo

Hmmm... I have this very good horse poo but in Hongus Tek its not added...
If i want to add horse poo how should i do it in this case?

crumble up the cakes and blend well with pasteurized poo,
1 cake can do 2-3 times as much poo.
coir is good bulk substrate as well as a decent casing,
one of few that works both ways.
here's what i'd do-
mix moistened poo and coir, roughly 50/50
then steam pasteurize it 2 hours at about 155*f
cool it off then mix with crumbled cake bits-
use about 1 cup cake pieces per 2-3 cups poo/coir mix.
fill trays to about 1/4 inch below top.
add about 1/4 inch of damp vermiculite as a casing
to bring it up level with the edges [helps drain off excess co2]
place in warm dark area for 3-4 days to let mycelia run thru poo/coir
then move into terrarium and begin giving light and fae to trigger pinning.

BuckarooBanzai · 08-05-09, 21:46

I was just formulating what Hip already posted! Always finish reading the thread before you start answering it in your head...

50:50 (poo:coir) makes an excellent bulk substrate. I never case anything but cakes, though.

Personally, I love coir. Fantastic additive for a sub, IMHO. Makes for nice fluffiness and helps balance out the moisture if your poo is a little damp (dry coir soaks up a bunch of liquid). And myc rips through coir very, very quickly.

The only thing I've seen myc run faster than coir is popcorn. Myc is scary fast on popcorn.

What brand of coir are you using? The "reptile bedding" stuff is excellent, but you have to be a bit careful with some of the horticultural brands. Some vendors add trich spores to the horticultural stuff (trich is good for plants).

Botanicare CocoGro (bagged, not bricked) is a good example - they inoculate it with trich and mychorrhizal spores. Very good substrate for growing plants but bad for mushrooms.

Not a huge problem though (I use CocoGro frequently). I just run it through the PC for full sterilization before using it.

Boboso · 08-06-09, 11:56

You could always toss $20 to walmart for a bunch of little tubs and do small scale bulks...

Hitauers · 09-13-09, 15:25

Hi everyone! I took the relay over from Robo and trying to get these casings to fruit. I used the method Hippie3 discribed:

Quote:

mix moistened poo and coir , roughly 50/50
then steam pasteurize it 2 hours at about 155*f
cool it off then mix with crumbled cake bits-
use about 1 cup cake pieces per 2-3 cups poo/coir mix.
fill trays to about 1/4 inch below top.
add about 1/4 inch of damp vermiculite as a casing
to bring it up level with the edges [helps drain off excess co2]
place in warm dark area for 3-4 days to let mycelia run thru poo/coir

But I have been keeping casings in warm dark area (steady 84 F) for a week now but the myc hasn't rips through yet. What am I doing wrong? Can I still save them?
Thanks in advance for your input

weiliicoyote · 09-13-09, 15:33

Do they smell fresh and earthy, or do they smell bad? If it has been a week and the myc isn't running, I would guess you have some type bacterial contam. I would go with a lower temperature ( <80F.)

Shroomette · 09-13-09, 15:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hitauers

Hi everyone! I took the relay over from Robo and trying to get these casings to fruit. I used the method Hippie3 discribed:

But I have been keeping casings in warm dark area (steady 84 F) for a week now but the myc hasn't rips through yet. What am I doing wrong? Can I still save them?
Thanks in advance for your input

Try lowering the temps between 75 to 78 F and then watch what happens. Good Luck and sending good vibes for a beautiful grow.

Hitauers · 09-13-09, 15:38

Yes, there is a unpleasant smell, it does not smell fresh at all. But when I looked at the casing non of them had a visual contam.

Ok, ill try lower temperature.

Thanks

BuckarooBanzai · 09-13-09, 16:22

Are those getting any fresh air or are those plastic lids covering them all the time?

Cases need some fresh air.

An unpleasant smell is a bad sign.

Ben Dover · 09-13-09, 16:24

An unpleasant smell is not a good sign.

It means something bad is growing.

You might want to go ahead and chuck it so it does not spread to anything else

edit: BB beat me to it

Shroomette · 09-13-09, 16:29

Buckaroo and Ben Dover beat me too it geesh lmao

GO teamwork guys!!!

I would definitely toss it because of bacterial you are not seeing and with the bad smells is a great indictation that they are full of contamns ... Sorry for the bad news but, don't give up.

Hitauers · 09-13-09, 16:32

I open the container and fan it once a day. Should I do it more often?

Well i lowered the tempereture, ill wait for couple of days, if nothing changes, ill guess ill just have to say goodbye to this grow, and start a new one.

Ben Dover · 09-13-09, 16:43

Most likely needs more than one fanning a day. Up it to 3 to 5 times a day and that should do ya good

BuckarooBanzai · 09-13-09, 16:51

Put aluminum foil over the containers, with holes poked in it. Or poke a bunch of holes in those lids.

Subs don't need as much fresh air as cakes, but they need it pretty much continuously.

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08-05-09, 04:01	#1 (permalink)
robo Mycophiliac Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 91	10 cakes = what to do? Hello there. I have some cakes and i would like to make 10 casings. I have those folium food boxes and i was wondering what is the best option... I have nice horse poo, coir and vermiculite... How would you make those 10 boxes with ingidients I have? Last time i just mixed it with COIR and VERM and shrooms were really tiny. But now i have poo and maybe there is some way to get better yield using the same folium boxes... Thanks for all the help! Attached Thumbnails

08-05-09, 04:31	#2 (permalink)
TastyBeverage thirsty for more Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 2,482	I can't tell exactly how big your containers are, but those little jars look quite small to me as does the tray. Since most of the boomer in your pic are still immature, i think that's a fair flush for that sized box and you mixed with non nutritives. Adding the poo will will definitely give you better yield, but try making a smaller number of larger trays as well. __________________ Why do little blue men hit me with fish?

08-05-09, 04:42	#5 (permalink)
GadgetGuy Stupid Snowboarder... Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 1,315	See this is what has me confused. I hear it on both extreme ends of the spectrum. Coir can kick ass, Coir can suck. I haven't really come to a good consensus on what to think about this aside from the fact that the one time I tried Coir for a few casings it blew nuts and contaminated. I'm sure it was a mistake I made. I personally would grind all those cakes up in a 1 gallon zip lock bag, buy a 30qt rubbermaid tub and spawn it to poo in a 1:1 or 1:2 spawn to poo/verm ratio. I wish you luck with your adventure my friend. IMO those trays are too shallow to get any real large fruits if that is what you are after..... What are they 2" deep? 3" -5" deep trays have worked well for me in the past with 5" giving me the big boys. I've never tried deeper than that but I've heard that after a certain point deeper than that is not helping so much. Ah you posted while I was posting lol. 3 different strains, I couldn't help you there. I've seen people mix strains in tubs and kept them separated 1/2 and 1/2 in the tub but 3....Not sure. That would be a great experiment in a large tub. Dive in and try it! Oh and every time I have used horse poo I get larger flushes and fruits as well vs. just casing a cake or even trying the Rez effect. __________________ I have to hold on to the grass or I'll fall off the world!

08-05-09, 06:53	#7 (permalink)
PsyBearknot earthbound misfit, I Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 363	Recently Hippie3 dropped a link for the Hongus tek in a different thread that I had missed while looking through the archives/vaults. http://forums.mycotopia.net/mushroom...k-reprint.html (Casing For Dummies : Hongus Tek reprint) If I had the jars, poo/coir/verm and trays Id think about following the Hongus tek but mixing the poo/coir together and use that for the bottom of the tray then proceed with breaking the cakes up and casing with the verm. Check out that tek good pictorial and instructions. PBK __________________ Standing alone my senses reeled A fatal attraction holding me fast, how Can I escape this irresistible grasp?

08-05-09, 04:35	#3 (permalink)
MLBjammer Addicted to Invitro Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,877	Coir and vermiculite are casing materials, meaning they are mostly non-nutritious and provide moisture for the substrate. Poo is a bulk substrate in that it is nutritious, and you spawn the cakes to the poo. The poo must be pastuerized, not sterilized. The higher the spawn-to-bulk ratio (say 1 parts spawn to 2 parts bulk, but you can go anywhere from 1:6 to 1:1), the better your chances of success. You should read some teks and grow logs in the vaults--under dung and compost, bulk substrates, etc. Many have success using monotubs and/or big fruiting bags for bulk grows. The cakes in the pics look very healthy, so you have many options for fruiting. The little pans should work, but there are many methods. Good luck.

08-05-09, 04:41	#4 (permalink)
robo Mycophiliac Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 91	I would make larger tub but the thing is that there are 3 different strains in those jars and i have no idea what is what so i cant put 2 or more of those cakes in one bulk... So i should spawn it with poo and incubate and then add verm + coir casing incubate again and then fruit? And those jars are 230 ml and 400 ml...

08-05-09, 05:58	#6 (permalink)
MLBjammer Addicted to Invitro Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,877	Coir is good stuff. It definitely needs to be prepped well, though, pouring boiling water over it and soaking for 15 minutes or so. Robo, you want to pasteurize your poo/coir/vermiculite, then mix spawn, then incubate. Good luck!

08-05-09, 07:27	#8 (permalink)
robo Mycophiliac Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 91	Great! I will follow this tek! Thank you guys! You are great as always!

08-05-09, 08:52	#11 (permalink)
MLBjammer Addicted to Invitro Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,877	Here's a short, good thread on the topic of mixing strains: http://forums.mycotopia.net/fungi-gr...in-mixing.html (Quick question about strain mixing?) From what I have found, you are better off just growing smaller trays now than investing a lot of energy and resources in something larger. There is always the next grow. But you should have good results if you follow the Hongus Tek--it is a classic.

08-05-09, 10:47	#12 (permalink)
robo Mycophiliac Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 91	Hmmm... I have this very good horse poo but in Hongus Tek its not added... If i want to add horse poo how should i do it in this case?

08-05-09, 11:13	#13 (permalink)
MLBjammer Addicted to Invitro Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,877	The Hongus Tek is all about learning how to case properly. Poo is not a casing--you want mix it with your cakes so that the mycelium will spawn to the poo, making a bigger ("bulk") substrate. You could add vermiculite and/or coir to the poo and cakes. But you have to let the bulk incubate a while (more or less a week), then put it in fruiting conditions. Whether you case it or not is up to you. I have had success without casing, and many DO NOT case bulk subs. Personally I would skip the casing, but every grower is different. Just follow a tek, and ask many questions. We are here to help.

08-05-09, 21:46	#15 (permalink)
BuckarooBanzai Prone to ranting... Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,050	I was just formulating what Hip already posted! Always finish reading the thread before you start answering it in your head... 50:50 (poo:coir) makes an excellent bulk substrate. I never case anything but cakes, though. Personally, I love coir. Fantastic additive for a sub, IMHO. Makes for nice fluffiness and helps balance out the moisture if your poo is a little damp (dry coir soaks up a bunch of liquid). And myc rips through coir very, very quickly. The only thing I've seen myc run faster than coir is popcorn. Myc is scary fast on popcorn. What brand of coir are you using? The "reptile bedding" stuff is excellent, but you have to be a bit careful with some of the horticultural brands. Some vendors add trich spores to the horticultural stuff (trich is good for plants). Botanicare CocoGro (bagged, not bricked) is a good example - they inoculate it with trich and mychorrhizal spores. Very good substrate for growing plants but bad for mushrooms. Not a huge problem though (I use CocoGro frequently). I just run it through the PC for full sterilization before using it. __________________ Banzai Institute for Higher Education (a collection of growing Teks & threads)

08-06-09, 11:56	#16 (permalink)
Boboso Boob Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 380	You could always toss $20 to walmart for a bunch of little tubs and do small scale bulks... __________________ Rank me amongst the greats, either 1, 2, or 3. If I ain't number 1, I've failed you victory. - Jay-Z

09-13-09, 15:33	#18 (permalink)
weiliicoyote respect the shroom Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 91	Do they smell fresh and earthy, or do they smell bad? If it has been a week and the myc isn't running, I would guess you have some type bacterial contam. I would go with a lower temperature ( <80F.)

09-13-09, 15:38	#20 (permalink)
Hitauers Mycophiliac Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 3	Yes, there is a unpleasant smell, it does not smell fresh at all. But when I looked at the casing non of them had a visual contam. Ok, ill try lower temperature. Thanks

09-13-09, 16:22	#21 (permalink)
BuckarooBanzai Prone to ranting... Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,050	Are those getting any fresh air or are those plastic lids covering them all the time? Cases need some fresh air. An unpleasant smell is a bad sign. __________________ Banzai Institute for Higher Education (a collection of growing Teks & threads)

09-13-09, 16:24	#22 (permalink)
Ben Dover fukenshrumen Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 577	An unpleasant smell is not a good sign. It means something bad is growing. You might want to go ahead and chuck it so it does not spread to anything else edit: BB beat me to it

09-13-09, 16:29	#23 (permalink)
Shroomette Fairy Princess Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 2,937	*Buckaroo and Ben Dover beat me too it geesh lmao* *GO teamwork guys!!!* *I would definitely toss it because of bacterial you are not seeing and with the bad smells is a great indictation that they are full of contamns ... Sorry for the bad news but, don't give up.* __________________ "If I'm not seen in this world.I'm lost in my own lil world"!!!

09-13-09, 16:32	#24 (permalink)
Hitauers Mycophiliac Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 3	I open the container and fan it once a day. Should I do it more often? Well i lowered the tempereture, ill wait for couple of days, if nothing changes, ill guess ill just have to say goodbye to this grow, and start a new one.

09-13-09, 16:43	#25 (permalink)
Ben Dover fukenshrumen Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 577	Most likely needs more than one fanning a day. Up it to 3 to 5 times a day and that should do ya good

09-13-09, 16:51	#26 (permalink)
BuckarooBanzai Prone to ranting... Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,050	Put aluminum foil over the containers, with holes poked in it. Or poke a bunch of holes in those lids. Subs don't need as much fresh air as cakes, but they need it pretty much continuously. __________________ Banzai Institute for Higher Education (a collection of growing Teks & threads)

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