First time bulk. Please give your input

[sluis88]

Hi All,

So SWIM is going to try to up the yield. My man, SWIM has done small grows coming right off the cake before but feels like he should tackle on a bulk project. SWIM has 6 pint jars of Argentina cubies, 95% colonized so far and was hoping to get some advice. SWIM is planning on a 50/50 verm/coir substrate with some worm castings. SWIM has reviewed various teks but he still has some questions.

1. What kind of coir should SWIM get? Is one brand better than another?
2. SWIM is in a very dry place, almost no humidity, should he use perlite to keep the humidity strong?
3. Does SWIM need conduct various air exchanges? As he has read both no and yes.
4. How deep should the substrate be?

Thanks in advance and Ill make sure to post some pics with the results.

[mydarling]

1. any kind of coir designed for pet/reptile bedding would be fine, any brand. make sure you don't get coir for plants - it's full of trich!

2. are you using a dubtub or monotub for this bulk? in that case, no perlite is required - they hold their humidity very well. perlite should really only be used if you're putting a bulk tray inside a larger fruiting chamber.

3. air exchanges are good, yes, but don't need to overdo it. i keep FAE pretty low during colonization and pinning, then increase a bit during fruiting, but even then only 1-3x per day for about 30 seconds each. you can also put more holes in your tub to decrease amount of fanning needed.

4. 3-4" is a good substrate depth.

[Myc]

I agree with Mydarling. Good advice all around there.
I like a monotub setup - no perlite - little fanning

I use Eco-Earth coir.
As a suggestion, if you can get some old pasture collected Horse Manure you'll do much better.
I think worm casting contam too easy.

[marmy]

I think wheat hay is pretty groovy nixed in to tubs too.

[apokalypse]

Originally Posted by mydarling

1. any kind of coir designed for pet/reptile bedding would be fine, any brand. make sure you don't get coir for plants - it's full of trich!

$@#!%(@#%

I think that's how I shot myself in the foot so many years ago.. I bought coir from a hydroponics store

Some like their subs deep, others go for surface area. Depends on how much fruiting you want done at which time.

[sluis88]

Thanks for the input guys, SWIM is going to make the monotub and the substrate today. He'll have some pics of the results up later.

[BuckarooBanzai]

IMHO, coir and worm castings both work better if they are sterilized in a PC run instead of Pasteurized.

I like about 3.5-4 inches for a substrate depth.

[ishkaboo]

Originally Posted by apokalypse

$@#!%(@#%

I think that's how I shot myself in the foot so many years ago.. I bought coir from a hydroponics store

I got a big bag of coir from the hydro store that says "100% Coconut Fiber" on the side. It works great, I just pasteurize it with the straw and whatever else I use and I haven't had an outbreak of trich yet.

You have to make sure you get the organic kind; i specifically asked the dude at the store if it had any additives such as anti-fungals or trich mold spores, etc and he showed me a little picture on the bag stating it to be approved by some environmental agency as "pure" (kinda like USDA approved meat I guess).

The only reason I got it at the hydro store is because absolutely NO pet stores around here stock coco coir as bedding.

[MLBjammer]

That is weird about the coir. I know that PetSmart and Petco both stock it--although you may live in a very rural area that does not have the big box stores. If you are just using coir (the non-trich type) and not mixing with poo or whatnot, you don't have to do anything to it except soak it in hot water for 15-30 minutes, let it cool, and use it.

[sluis88]

So a few days ago, SWIM opened his bulk substrate with a nightmare of contaminants taking over the almost fully colonized substrate .... SWIM was so bummed out. So he has one cake left that he did not crumble, it is fruiting its first flush....He was thinking he could make some more bulk substrate and put that cake in there after its first flush. What do you guys think? Also SWIM would be use the pc this time to make sure the baddies are all killed. How long should the coir, castings, and verm be pc'd for?

Here's a quick pic his last remaining cake

[ishkaboo]

Originally Posted by sluis88

So a few days ago, SWIM opened his bulk substrate with a nightmare of contaminants taking over the almost fully colonized substrate .... SWIM was so bummed out. So he has one cake left that he did not crumble, it is fruiting its first flush....He was thinking he could make some more bulk substrate and put that cake in there after its first flush. What do you guys think? Also SWIM would be use the pc this time to make sure the baddies are all killed. How long should the coir, castings, and verm be pc'd for?

I wouldn't PC those, I would pasteurize them together in a pillow case in water at 165-170* F for 1-2 hours. Get a meat or candy thermometer. Pasteurizing will work out better since it kills most of the baddies but leaves some good microorganisms there as well to create competition for contams, although the myc will grow just fine.


Also, that one cake is not going to be very much spawn, maybe just do a mini bulk? Like a Tupperware?

[sluis88]

Originally Posted by ishkaboo

I wouldn't PC those, I would pasteurize them together in a pillow case in water at 165-170* F for 1-2 hours. Get a meat or candy thermometer. Pasteurizing will work out better since it kills most of the baddies but leaves some good microorganisms there as well to create competition for contams, although the myc will grow just fine.


Also, that one cake is not going to be very much spawn, maybe just do a mini bulk? Like a Tupperware?

Ok this is what he'll do. but SWIM wants to know how one gets the right water threshold if it has been soaking??? Do you let the substrate dry out then mix??? Thanks for the help

[MLBjammer]

Originally Posted by BuckarooBanzai

IMHO, coir and worm castings both work better if they are sterilized in a PC run instead of Pasteurized.

I like about 3.5-4 inches for a substrate depth.

Just click on The Banzai Institute, better directions than I could relay. His results with coir and castings speak for themselves.

To answer your question on moisture content, you always want your substrate at field capacity, wherein you can only squeeze a few water drops from a fistful--that's for casing material, bulk material, or cake mix.

Sorry about the contams. Good luck.

[ishkaboo]

IMHO , coir and worm castings both work better if they are sterilized in a PC run instead of Pasteurized.

I see. I have had that bulk sub contam from sterilizing in the past, hence I recommend pasteurizing. I guess maybe I did something wrong during spawning, idk.

[MLBjammer]

Ish, I have never worked with castings. Buck swears that sterilizing them is the way to go. And if you look at his results, he must be on to something. I have read of others pasteurizing successfully.

God, contams can be caused by a lot of different things. I always seem to realize what I screwed up after the fact, lol.

[boots420]

Not to thread jack. But as far as coir goes; I have used, and exclusively use coir from hydoponic stores. Before I put the coir to use I always bring the water up to a boil before hydrating it.

The only reason I mention this is because of price. As coir is already quite expensive; "bed-a-beast" brand cost about 5.00 a brick. I can get my coir from a local hydo retailer at 2.00 a brick.

I have used both and I know from experience.... that as long as you pasteurize or sterilize the coir first........ trich is not an issue.

Just trying to save people a few bucks.......

[boots420]

Originally Posted by sluis88

Hi All,

So SWIM is going to try to up the yield. My man, SWIM has done small grows coming right off the cake before but feels like he should tackle on a bulk project. SWIM has 6 pint jars of Argentina cubies, 95% colonized so far and was hoping to get some advice. SWIM is planning on a 50/50 verm/coir substrate with some worm castings. SWIM has reviewed various teks but he still has some questions.

1. What kind of coir should SWIM get? Is one brand better than another?
2. SWIM is in a very dry place, almost no humidity, should he use perlite to keep the humidity strong?
3. Does SWIM need conduct various air exchanges? As he has read both no and yes.
4. How deep should the substrate be?

Thanks in advance and Ill make sure to post some pics with the results.

1. As for coir go with the cheapest you can find. Also make sure to pasteurize before use.

2. This would depend on how big your trying to go. Bu judging from the amount of cakes. I would say go dub tub or something of the sort. I myself went the way of the green house, cool mist ect.

3. In my experience the more air exchange the better. Although you must be able to maintain humidity. As for my setup I have fresh air exchanged 24/7 via a coolmist.

4. Substrate depth normally anywhere from four to six inches deep.

[MrZeus]

This is a good source of coir. And happens to be on sale right now. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=6016+6040+6494&pcatid=6494

[Scratch]

Originally Posted by sluis88

He was thinking he could make some more bulk substrate and put that cake in there after its first flush. What do you guys think?

Sounds like a recipe for disaster.

The surface of that cake has already been
exposed to the elements. Very likely that
contaminants have landed on the surface.
That won't hurt the fully colonized cake, but,
add fresh nutrients for the contams to grow on
and you'll have trouble.

Instead, let that cake grow out. Collect some
spore prints and perhaps take a clone or two
for future studies.

Good Luck!

[MLBjammer]

Definitely better to use freshly-colonized cakes/grain for sure.

Zeus, that is a good deal on coir!

[sluis88]

thanks for all the advice guys...ill keep you all updated. Next bulk project should be a success.

[BuckarooBanzai]

I use American Agritech / Botanicare coir. I love the bales. Huge amount of coir for $25-$30 and virtually zero shipping. Great stuff. Hydro stores put it on special all the time... I also use General Hydroponics coir in a pinch.

I ALWAYS sterilize coir. The Botanicare coir I mention is treated with trich spores (this is a *very* good thing for plants). I always sterilize it for use with mushies. The weird thing about coir is that it just never seems to contaminate (when it is by itself). Even sawdust and wood chips will contaminate if you leave them lying around wet in a closed up container for long enough.

Not coir. I have never seen coir alone spontaneously contaminate (and I have been playing with coir for 10+ years - seriously, it is a great soil additive).

I also always sterilize worm castings. But they also don't seem to ever spontaneously contaminate. I use Wiggle Worms castings from 30lb bags - very reliable, always the same results (good).

[sluis88]

Hi all. So Swim finally got another project going, 2 days into colinization of bulk substrate. Decided to use h poo instead of castings and all seems well. When should a casing be applied though? Should swim wait until the substrate is fully colonized or should it be cased right now. Also should the casing be dry or to yeild capacity? Going to use 50/50 verm/coir. Very excited about this one.

[MLBjammer]

No need for a casing layer if those are cubensis. You already have plenty of moisture in the substrate, and a casing layer would just slow things down at this point.

If you do case, make sure the casing mix is at field capacity moisture-wise (a few water droplets from a squeezed fistful), and since your tray is rockin' you should make it fairly thin (less than 1" thick for certain).

It looks great. Good luck!

[P4ulada]

Yeap, I can confirm ehehe No case is needed =]
Nice tub, wait a little more to induce it to pin, so you´ll have plenty results ^^
Good luck

[sluis88]

Hi,

thanks for the advice guys. I decided to case it. Not in a hurry and want to have a good yield with these guys. I'll submit some pictures when I get home later today. Just had two quick questions, do flourscent lights work to I induce pinning? And also should I dunk my substrate after each flush? I got cubies

[TastyBeverage]

Fluorescent is fine, but you really need very little light to induce pinning. Ambient light from a window for a few minutes a day is fine.

[MLBjammer]

Yeah, dunk it for a few hours between flushes. Just flood the sub with water, put something heavy on top to hold it underwater (I use a couple paving stones), and drain it off after a few hours (I find 2 hours to be enough, but many dunk longer.

[sluis88]

Originally Posted by sluis88

Hi,

thanks for the advice guys. I decided to case it. Not in a hurry and want to have a good yield with these guys. I'll submit some pictures when I get home later today. Just had two quick questions, do flourscent lights work to I induce pinning? And also should I dunk my substrate after each flush? I got cubies

cant wait!