dang, these jars suck....

[bozefonce]

No, really. In a spectacular display of noobish behavior, FOAF took the GT syringe he had on hand that had become kinda cloudy and chunky and used it to knock up some WBS. The popular opinion on the site a few weeks back was that the chunks were more than likely the spores clumping together, so he decided to put it to the test. He shook the syringe up a good bit, then flamed it and poked... the vacuum bearing half-pint. Before he knew it, 6 of the 10 cc had been sucked in and he pulled out the needle. Well, he thought, nothing left to do but use the other 4 on the second jar. So he did. After this, he shook the jars to spread the liquid around a bit... then stopped to notice the puddle of spore water at the bottom of the jar. Now images of wet spot and other moisture related problems fill his head. He's boiling some needles now to make air ports and resolve the vacuum problem, but fears the project is already on the road to failure.

Ah, the life of an apprentice mycologist. What to do?

[Hippie3]

let it ride and see, not much good could be accomplished messing more with it.
proly be ok.
should have used airport first of course when you vacuum seal -
but imo other than lc or spore water-
no good reason to vacuum seal substrate jars.

[bozefonce]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

let it ride and see, not much good could be accomplished messing more with it.
proly be ok.
should have used airport first of course when you vacuum seal -
but imo other than lc or spore water-
no good reason to vacuum seal substrate jars.

Cool, thanks Hip. Just didn't have time to deal with getting tyvek and preparing ventilated lids at this point. We'll get there, though. Gonna poke the airports in and let 'em incubate a while and see what happens. We'll know soon enough if the syringe was good or not, I suppose. I'll post the update as things move along.

[MLBjammer]

All you need for grain jars is a lid with a hole about the size of a nickel. Stuff that tight with polyfill and trim the ends. You can inoculate through it, and it works quite well.

But as long as you give some air with the airport, you should be okay.

Good luck.

[bozefonce]

Originally Posted by MLBjammer

All you need for grain jars is a lid with a hole about the size of a nickel. Stuff that tight with polyfill and trim the ends. You can inoculate through it, and it works quite well.

But as long as you give some air with the airport, you should be okay.

Good luck.

So you run that polyfill through the pc too? Hafta give that a try...

[Hippie3]

http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus...tml?1037929726

[MLBjammer]

There you go. Thanks, Hip.

[Sideshow]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus...tml?1037929726

That is the best polyfill lid I have seen thus far.
I have been using 2 or 3 layer tyvek lids for grain jars, LC's and everything else.
This is what they look like:


I use either:
2 layers of postal tyvek with one layer of kite tyvek sandwiched between the two.
or
2 layers of kite tyvek - 'waxy' side down.

There is no metal lid underneath the tyvek.
If I want to limit fae, I add a strip of duct tape after the pc run.
After shooting thru the lid, I tape the hole. Silicone blobs on the lid also work, but require more silicone than regular ports, more prep time, and they just don't work a good as tape over the hole.

For pf Jars, I use one layer of postal tyvek over the verm barrier - no tape over the holes after innoculation, just a loose foil cover.



If I'm not gonna shoot them right away, any jars with lids of these type get stored in a ziploc or twist tie baggie

[Hippie3]

i've seen trich grow right thru that postal tyvek crap,
too much paper = food for microbes.

[bozefonce]

Originally Posted by Hippie3

i've seen trich grow right thru that postal tyvek crap,
too much paper = food for microbes.

DuPont claims that Tyvek doesn't have any paper in it, nor binders, it's all polyethylene fiber:

"The nondirectional fibers (plexifilaments) are first spun and then bonded together by heat and pressure, without binders."

"Tyvek® brand protective material is NOT paper – significantly lighter than paper, it’s also stronger – an important factor when you’re mailing something heavy or chunky. And, when paper gets wet, it absorbs moisture and falls apart. Tyvek® doesn’t. Paper can also be torn, frayed, punctured and destroyed easily. Tyvek® resists all of these hazards."

So, says bozefonce, what could be the problem with postal Tyvek as opposed to kite-maker's Tyvek or the Tyvek suit? I've never used it in mycological applications, but it seems to me that postal tyvek wouldn't breathe nearly as well as the other types mentioned here, and that alone could be a defining factor in the success rate. Also seems to me that postal Tyvek wouldn't be nearly as self-healing after injections as the other types. I just now confirmed this with a stray tyvek envelope I had sitting around here, poked it with a needle. The Tyvek has holes in it now. Hmm.

I put this out as a point of discussion, since I have no personal experience with it, as I said, outside of mailing with it and wearing it (asbestos abatement). OK, I've also seen the patches on Hippie's bags at FOAF's house. But that's it.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Postal Tyvek has paper/cellulose in it. I think about 5%-10% but I can't remember for certain.

You can use the PO Tyvek, but you need two layers with a dead air space between them. If the layers are touching and the top gets moist, contams can grow right through by eating the paper fibers.

House wrap Tyvek and kite Tyvek can be used as one layer alone IF it is 100% Tyvek.

I use both house wrap and PO Tyvek. The PO stuff is a lot easier to cut up into little circles for lid vents. The house wrap stuff is a lot easier to make into dessicant bags.

No Tyvek is self healing and Tyvek should not be injected through.

[peakster]

i use 1 layer of postal tyvek with a metal lid. 2 holes in the metal lid, one covered in a sylicon blob for injecting. no problems yet with contams growing thru the tyvek..

[BuckarooBanzai]

Give it time...

[MrZeus]

I use a dbl layer of the PO kind and I've had no problems yet. I do try to keep it dry as much as possible.

[bozefonce]

9 days post-inoculation and not seeing any obvious signs of colonization. Does WBS usually take more than a week to show some mycelial growth? Temps are about 79-80 and getting some light daily.

[Sideshow]

Spores can take up to 2 weeks+ to germinate. I wouldn't trash them just yet

[Leftover Salmon]

Do most people use the tape an polyfill tek?

[Jawn]

Originally Posted by bozefonce

9 days post-inoculation and not seeing any obvious signs of colonization. Does WBS usually take more than a week to show some mycelial growth? Temps are about 79-80 and getting some light daily.

I wouldn't recommend giving them light every day beginning at inoculation. You only want to do that for in vitro growing, and doing that with bird seed wouldn't allow for very good flushes. Seed is more of a spawn for bulk substrates, not so much a fruiting substrate.

[GODSFLESH]

why not ?

[Jawn]

It doesn't hold a lot of moisture. You'll wind up with tiny flushes if you're fruiting directly from them.

[bozefonce]

Originally Posted by Jawn

I wouldn't recommend giving them light every day beginning at inoculation. You only want to do that for in vitro growing, and doing that with bird seed wouldn't allow for very good flushes. Seed is more of a spawn for bulk substrates, not so much a fruiting substrate.

Yeah, not planning to fruit directly from them, it's just the conditions available. They're kept in the same closet as the FC, so there's gonna be light in there several hours a day. I guess they could be placed in a box and covered with a towel or something if that makes any difference. Once they're colonized, they'll be spawned to poo/coir in bulk trays.

[bozefonce]

Originally Posted by Leftover Salmon

Do most people use the tape an polyfill tek?

These WBS jars have silicone injection ports and an airport stuck in to let them breathe. Haven't had the chance to make polyfill lids yet, but that's the next project.

[bozefonce]

Originally Posted by Sideshow

Spores can take up to 2 weeks+ to germinate. I wouldn't trash them just yet

Yes, as always, the best answer is PATIENCE!!! Thanks Sidestreet

[BuckarooBanzai]

Always incubate in the dark unless it is an in-vitro project.

[Discobiscuit]

i use po tyvek and never have any problems from the outside. all of my funky jars come from lazy spore prints

Oh and keep them in the dark. The more i peek the slower they go