Have we ever come to a conclusion about late casing?

OZ · 09-26-09, 03:55

I remember a while back this was popular, waiting until there were pins and knots forming before you cased. Someone was supposed to do an experiment with an isolate:

A tub w/ bulk sub uncased, a tub cased immediately after colonization, and a tub cased when pins and knots formed(how far along, I'm not sure).

Has that experiment been done, because I've been away for a while, and always wondered how that all worked out. I've always hoped late casing was the way to go, I'm always leaving them till they were knotty almost pinny to case, and I'd hate to think I was doing it wrong all that time.

Thanks fellas

MLBjammer · 09-26-09, 05:09

I couldn't find the thread, but I have read Hippie3's comment that late casing is not superior to a normal casing layer.

Om shanti · 09-26-09, 05:49

Interesting question. I've been wanting to try it after reading this (old) thread: http://forums.mycotopia.net/mushroom...te-casing.html (The method of Late Casing)

OZ · 09-26-09, 17:40

Yeah that's the thread that got me wondering

wildburr · 09-26-09, 17:41

I dont think there was any evidence that it was any better than casing normally.

door#6 · 09-26-09, 17:58

old fahtster idea wasn't it?

OZ · 09-26-09, 20:34

yeah, it was....
okay, so a tub that is showing some knots, and mabe even a pin or two.... leave it to flush, pick, and case for the 2nd?

or case now?

or case in one day?

floppypeter · 09-26-09, 22:04

fhat had done a comparison, some where, google search does better than topia search, when looking for a thread most of the time,
late casing seems to work well and is a good way to ensure your mych doesn't consume the casing layer.

TVCasualty · 09-27-09, 09:25

Since cubensis growing on a bulk sub doesn't need any casing at all, I would assume that the effect of late casing would be to boost the available moisture for the developing pins. That would make more of them develop into bigger mushrooms and make the technique appear worthwhile.

However, it involves extra steps and more fussing with the grow, and the benefits are likely due to the water it adds since I've gotten results as good as any I've seen just by maximizing the substrate's moisture content before the first flush (while taking care not to oversaturate it).

So, my own conclusion about it is that it's a waste of time IF you are carefully maintaining proper moisture content of your substrate. I guess that also means it might be a useful technique for anyone having trouble with that, but ultimately I believe it's better to maintain proper growth parameters all the way through a grow than to apply a series of quick fixes to make up for inadequate environmental control.

MLBjammer · 09-27-09, 10:56

That is what I thought the consensus was, TV. Thanks for sharing your perspective on it.

Heisenberg · 09-27-09, 17:33

IME, casing only after there are pins and a few descent sized primordia results in harvesting fruits within 5-7 days. Casing before pinning stalls the fruiting and I won't see pins for at least a week to ten days.

chill · 09-27-09, 19:08

faht's thread is here.

http://forums.mycotopia.net/mushroom...te-casing.html (The method of Late Casing) (The method of Late Casing)

I'd go further than saying it's questionable if it's a good idea. I'd say it's just plain wrong. faht's not using casings correctly. A casing is meant to be colonized so that the mycelium can absorb the water content. Applying a casing during the fruiting stage (once the mycelium has stopped growing) means that the pins get covered but the casing never gets colonized and the moisture doesn't get used.

Bad idea IMHO.

chill · 09-27-09, 19:13

hi heisenberg,

I gotta ask how you came to this conclusion.

I agree that using a casing layer delays the eventual fruiting time by having to wait for the layer to colonize. But the trade off is that you've added more moisture so can increase the total yield.

chill

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

IME, casing only after there are pins and a few descent sized primordia results in harvesting fruits within 5-7 days. Casing before pinning stalls the fruiting and I won't see pins for at least a week to ten days.

chill · 09-27-09, 19:19

In "the mushroom cultivator", stamets lists the following uses for casings:

1. to protect the colonized sub from drying out
2. to provide a humid microclimate for primordia formation
3. to provide a water reservoir for the maturing mushrooms
4. to support the growth of fructification enhancing microorganisms

Some species of mushrooms require a casing (ex: pan cyans) but others like cubies don't.

Om shanti · 09-28-09, 03:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by chill

I'd go further than saying it's questionable if it's a good idea. I'd say it's just plain wrong. faht's not using casings correctly. A casing is meant to be colonized so that the mycelium can absorb the water content. Applying a casing during the fruiting stage (once the mycelium has stopped growing) means that the pins get covered but the casing never gets colonized and the moisture doesn't get used.

From my admittedly limited experience I have to disagree with this casing layer interpretation: IMO A casing layer does not need to colonized in order to provide moisture to the mycelium. Just the mycelium touching the casing layer should be enough for it to be able to have drink from the casing's water reservoir. For instance, when double end casing a regular cake, the vermiculite doesn't necessarily get colonized but it's still helpful in providing additional watering for the cake.

I'm not arguing about whether or not Fahtster's tek is good or bad, since I've no idea about that. Just happily listening to people's opinions about that.

apokalypse · 09-28-09, 03:58

If you're going to add a late casing, you may as well just carefully mist the primordia once they are of decent size. Both sound like crazy ideas.

TVCasualty · 09-28-09, 08:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Om shanti

IMO A casing layer does not need to colonized in order to provide moisture to the mycelium. Just the mycelium touching the casing layer should be enough for it to be able to have drink from the casing's water reservoir.

I think that's true, to a point. Mycelium drinks by wicking water into itself, so the amount of water and the rate it can be absorbed is partially a function of the amount of surface area of mycelium that is in contact with the water source while still allowing adequate gas exchange (that is, it can't drown). The more colonized a casing layer is, the more water the myc. can absorb from it in less time; maintaining the dynamic balance between moisture and air exchange within the optimal range is very tricky and IMO the late casing method is a way to make up for deficiencies in maintaining that balance.

OZ · 09-28-09, 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by apokalypse

If you're going to add a late casing, you may as well just carefully mist the primordia once they are of decent size. Both sound like crazy ideas.

What is so crazy about misting primadora? Is that crazier than dunking a sub that has primadora?

apokalypse · 09-28-09, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZ

What is so crazy about misting primadora? Is that crazier than dunking a sub that has primadora?

Some believe it leads to more aborts.

Om shanti · 09-28-09, 14:36

I think misting pins is hazardous because of the force of the impact, it's not because of the water as such. I don't think the late casing method would lead to aborts for that reason unless one really slammed the casing layer on the substrate/pins.

Heisenberg · 09-28-09, 18:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by chill

hi heisenberg,

I gotta ask how you came to this conclusion.

I agree that using a casing layer delays the eventual fruiting time by having to wait for the layer to colonize. But the trade off is that you've added more moisture so can increase the total yield.

chill

This is from previous experience when I grew cubes a while back. I also noticed that the late cased tray's mycelium grabbed hold of the casing quickly, especially at the base of fruits which had strong rhizo radiating into the casing.

BuckarooBanzai · 09-28-09, 23:17

I have found that if moisture is right in the substrate and the terrarium, casing slows things down for no good reason.

I only case cakes and straight grains.

eatyualive · 09-29-09, 15:16

it does work. but so does regular casing. but casing isn't really necessary. why take the extra step to prep one? yield with and without casing is very close in proximity if you do it right when it comes to cubensis.

OZ · 09-29-09, 19:08

I don't know, I just thought it was the thing to be done. Instead of dunking I could just soak the verm on top. But I guess after a harvest I could just mist the sub straight. Maybe I'll just not case, see how it goes.

Lazlo · 09-29-09, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by chill

faht's thread is here.

http://forums.mycotopia.net/mushroom...te-casing.html (The method of Late Casing) (The method of Late Casing)

I'd go further than saying it's questionable if it's a good idea. I'd say it's just plain wrong. faht's not using casings correctly. A casing is meant to be colonized so that the mycelium can absorb the water content. Applying a casing during the fruiting stage (once the mycelium has stopped growing) means that the pins get covered but the casing never gets colonized and the moisture doesn't get used.

Bad idea IMHO.

No harm to Faht, but that's perfectly correct.

CoyoteMesc · 09-29-09, 19:35

The idea of late casing was not to cover pins. If there are pins....you waited to 'late', lol

CoyoteMesc · 09-29-09, 19:41

The conclusion would be this.

Every one of us that grow do things that help us be successful in this hobby.
What works for you may ruin my project for me. Late casing works for faht and
some of the members that tried it. While for others, it delayed and or even stunted
normal growth all together. There is no argument that this works WELL for faht. LoOk at his grows. But look at earlier grows from him too. All look great. Find your nitch and stick with it.

09-30-09, 01:24

ah... you're always the voice of reason coyote. that should be every newbs' montra... couldn't have said it better myself.

OZ · 09-30-09, 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by mothatrucka

ah... you're always the voice of reason coyote. that should be every newbs' montra... couldn't have said it better myself.

Callin me a noob, punk?

[Home]	[The Vaults]	[Glossary]	[Sponsors]	[Affiliates]
[Search]	Today's Posts	Mark Forums Read	[Register]	[Activate]	[Resend Email]

09-26-09, 03:55	#1 (permalink)
OZ Mycotopiate Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 321	Have we ever come to a conclusion about late casing? I remember a while back this was popular, waiting until there were pins and knots forming before you cased. Someone was supposed to do an experiment with an isolate: A tub w/ bulk sub uncased, a tub cased immediately after colonization, and a tub cased when pins and knots formed(how far along, I'm not sure). Has that experiment been done, because I've been away for a while, and always wondered how that all worked out. I've always hoped late casing was the way to go, I'm always leaving them till they were knotty almost pinny to case, and I'd hate to think I was doing it wrong all that time. Thanks fellas

09-26-09, 05:49	#3 (permalink)
Om shanti S.W.I.M. in H.POO Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,297	Interesting question. I've been wanting to try it after reading this (old) thread: http://forums.mycotopia.net/mushroom...te-casing.html (The method of Late Casing) __________________ The most important thing is to find out what is the most important thing.-S. Suzuki

09-26-09, 17:41	#5 (permalink)
wildburr Midnight Toker Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 3,731	I dont think there was any evidence that it was any better than casing normally. __________________ Silence is Golden, but Duct tape is Silver.

09-26-09, 22:04	#8 (permalink)
floppypeter tra la la Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,229	fhat had done a comparison, some where, google search does better than topia search, when looking for a thread most of the time, late casing seems to work well and is a good way to ensure your mych doesn't consume the casing layer. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] WE FUNK RADIO

09-26-09, 05:09	#2 (permalink)
MLBjammer Addicted to Invitro Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,876	I couldn't find the thread, but I have read Hippie3's comment that late casing is not superior to a normal casing layer.

09-26-09, 17:40	#4 (permalink)
OZ Mycotopiate Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 321	Yeah that's the thread that got me wondering

09-26-09, 17:58	#6 (permalink)
door#6 one billion served Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 62	old fahtster idea wasn't it?

09-26-09, 20:34	#7 (permalink)
OZ Mycotopiate Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 321	yeah, it was.... okay, so a tub that is showing some knots, and mabe even a pin or two.... leave it to flush, pick, and case for the 2nd? or case now? or case in one day?

09-27-09, 09:25	#9 (permalink)
TVCasualty Embrace Your Damage Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 4,798	Since cubensis growing on a bulk sub doesn't need any casing at all, I would assume that the effect of late casing would be to boost the available moisture for the developing pins. That would make more of them develop into bigger mushrooms and make the technique appear worthwhile. However, it involves extra steps and more fussing with the grow, and the benefits are likely due to the water it adds since I've gotten results as good as any I've seen just by maximizing the substrate's moisture content before the first flush (while taking care not to oversaturate it). So, my own conclusion about it is that it's a waste of time IF you are carefully maintaining proper moisture content of your substrate. I guess that also means it might be a useful technique for anyone having trouble with that, but ultimately I believe it's better to maintain proper growth parameters all the way through a grow than to apply a series of quick fixes to make up for inadequate environmental control. __________________ First they ignore you; then they mock you; then they punish you; then you win. -Gandhi

09-27-09, 10:56	#10 (permalink)
MLBjammer Addicted to Invitro Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,876	That is what I thought the consensus was, TV. Thanks for sharing your perspective on it.

09-27-09, 17:33	#11 (permalink)
Heisenberg Mycophiliac Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 51	IME, casing only after there are pins and a few descent sized primordia results in harvesting fruits within 5-7 days. Casing before pinning stalls the fruiting and I won't see pins for at least a week to ten days.

09-27-09, 19:08	#12 (permalink)
chill celtic tiger Join Date: May 1972 Posts: 1,095	faht's thread is here. http://forums.mycotopia.net/mushroom...te-casing.html (The method of Late Casing) (The method of Late Casing) I'd go further than saying it's questionable if it's a good idea. I'd say it's just plain wrong. faht's not using casings correctly. A casing is meant to be colonized so that the mycelium can absorb the water content. Applying a casing during the fruiting stage (once the mycelium has stopped growing) means that the pins get covered but the casing never gets colonized and the moisture doesn't get used. Bad idea IMHO. __________________ When the going gets wierd the wierd turn pro!

09-27-09, 19:19	#14 (permalink)
chill celtic tiger Join Date: May 1972 Posts: 1,095	casings according to stamets In "the mushroom cultivator", stamets lists the following uses for casings: 1. to protect the colonized sub from drying out 2. to provide a humid microclimate for primordia formation 3. to provide a water reservoir for the maturing mushrooms 4. to support the growth of fructification enhancing microorganisms Some species of mushrooms require a casing (ex: pan cyans) but others like cubies don't. __________________ When the going gets wierd the wierd turn pro!

09-28-09, 03:58	#16 (permalink)
apokalypse Dr. Durgs Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,456	If you're going to add a late casing, you may as well just carefully mist the primordia once they are of decent size. Both sound like crazy ideas. __________________ "Soo, babies don't come out the butt?"

09-28-09, 14:36	#20 (permalink)
Om shanti S.W.I.M. in H.POO Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 1,297	I think misting pins is hazardous because of the force of the impact, it's not because of the water as such. I don't think the late casing method would lead to aborts for that reason unless one really slammed the casing layer on the substrate/pins. __________________ The most important thing is to find out what is the most important thing.-S. Suzuki

09-28-09, 23:17	#22 (permalink)
BuckarooBanzai Prone to ranting... Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,050	I have found that if moisture is right in the substrate and the terrarium, casing slows things down for no good reason. I only case cakes and straight grains. __________________ Banzai Institute for Higher Education (a collection of growing Teks & threads)

09-29-09, 15:16	#23 (permalink)
eatyualive ExoCannibalist Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 5,064	it does work. but so does regular casing. but casing isn't really necessary. why take the extra step to prep one? yield with and without casing is very close in proximity if you do it right when it comes to cubensis. __________________ Click for Eat's Reference

09-29-09, 19:08	#24 (permalink)
OZ Mycotopiate Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 321	I don't know, I just thought it was the thing to be done. Instead of dunking I could just soak the verm on top. But I guess after a harvest I could just mist the sub straight. Maybe I'll just not case, see how it goes.

09-29-09, 19:35	#26 (permalink)
CoyoteMesc howling mad Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4,045	The idea of late casing was not to cover pins. If there are pins....you waited to 'late', lol __________________ WOODY: Hey, Mr. Peterson, there's a cold one waiting for you. NORM: I know. If she calls, I'm not here.[ (Cheers)

09-29-09, 19:41	#27 (permalink)
CoyoteMesc howling mad Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 4,045	The conclusion would be this. Every one of us that grow do things that help us be successful in this hobby. What works for you may ruin my project for me. Late casing works for faht and some of the members that tried it. While for others, it delayed and or even stunted normal growth all together. There is no argument that this works WELL for faht. LoOk at his grows. But look at earlier grows from him too. All look great. Find your nitch and stick with it. __________________ WOODY: Hey, Mr. Peterson, there's a cold one waiting for you. NORM: I know. If she calls, I'm not here.[ (Cheers)

09-30-09, 01:24	#28 (permalink)
~mothatrucka Guest Posts: n/a	ah... you're always the voice of reason coyote. that should be every newbs' montra... couldn't have said it better myself.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode