Psilocybin extraction question

Thre365ive · 10-11-09, 20:12

Does anyone know psilocybin or psilocin's solubility in methanol, ethanol and/or isopropanol? Any temperature that the measurement is taken at will work, I can figure out the math myself. I'm trying to scheme up an extraction tek to try out and I can't find this info for the life of me.

And just cause I was thinking about it, here's a paper on extraction that I found one day. It gives a superior solvent formula for extraction, but I wanna start with something simple. It also doesn't actually say how soluble the alkaloids are in the alcohol.

My plan is to gently reflux some dried, powdered mushrooms in methanol for about 4 hours, then add a minimal amount of ethanol (can ethanol be dried with MGSO4?) and evaporate off the methanol to leave saturated ethanol and psilocybin.

The file doesn't wanna upload right now. I'll try later.

Thre365ive · 10-11-09, 20:52

Got the file to upload.

http://www.filehosting.org/file/deta...psilocybin.pdf

Anybody know of a better file hosting site? Mediafire isn't working for me ATM, and this requires it to email you.

hungryhippo999 · 10-11-09, 21:33

FOAF used methanol extraction years ago and wouldn't advise it. It reallllly diminished potency. Potency is already lost in the drying process, then after the extraction the potency takes an even more drastic drop. Too much oxidation? I dont know. Unsure. Either way good luck if you try but in FOAF opinion he ruined a TON of potentially scrumptious shroomies! Reallllllly weaked after extracted....he had before and after. Just his personal experience.....

Thre365ive · 10-12-09, 02:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by hungryhippo999

FOAF used methanol extraction years ago and wouldn't advise it. It reallllly diminished potency. Potency is already lost in the drying process, then after the extraction the potency takes an even more drastic drop. Too much oxidation? I dont know. Unsure. Either way good luck if you try but in FOAF opinion he ruined a TON of potentially scrumptious shroomies! Reallllllly weaked after extracted....he had before and after. Just his personal experience.....

What was your FOAF's procedure? Refluxing for 4 hours is a proven method.

The main thing I want, though, is real data regarding solubility, I think I can form a good technique from that info, along with other things I know.

kcmoxtractor · 10-12-09, 14:00

I think running it in a coldfinger or something similar for several hours would work really well.

BuckarooBanzai · 10-12-09, 14:42

Grinding them up and soaking in Everclear for a week or so works great.

You can boil off as much of the alcohol as needed, but keep the solution liquid. Store in amber bottles in the freezer and it keeps quite effectively.

Thre365ive · 10-12-09, 18:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcmoxtractor

I think running it in a coldfinger or something similar for several hours would work really well.

That's why I said I was planning on refluxing it. Not in a cold finger, but I found a Pyrex percolator with what looks like a PP insert. A bag of ice on the top of it will be perfect. It can even touch a hotplate directly.

Quote:

Grinding them up and soaking in Everclear for a week or so works great.

Yeah, but it takes a week, not 4 hours, and MeOH will pull out more psilocybin, while EtOH will pull more psilocin.

I actually just had the thought to reflux in methanol, add ethanol, evap the MeOH off, then reflux it again with the same plant material. This way I should get all of the alkaloids out, or at least pretty damn close to all of them.

Quote:

You can boil off as much of the alcohol as needed, but keep the solution liquid.

As long as I make sure they're always covered in solvent, I doubt much oxidation would occur if I precipitated out the crystals.

Quote:

Store in amber bottles in the freezer and it keeps quite effectively.

For the little time it gets stored, yeah, that's what I'd do. I'm only thinking of working with a few grams, though. Enough for me & my friends to trip once.

But nobody knows the solubility? That would make this much easier. I could always use excess solvent, but I don't wanna have to evap more than I have to. Where I live, the fumes can't really go anywhere, so I have to keep them minimal.

BuckarooBanzai · 10-12-09, 18:47

If you have refluxing equipment and are concerned about fumes, I would definitely consider ethanol.

Refluxing would speed up the process dramatically and ethanol would leave an easily consumed final product.

kcmoxtractor · 10-12-09, 18:53

I used 50/50 denatured (methanol/ethanol mix) then evap'd down to a small amount, added water and evaporated until alcohol had been gone for a while.

What have we learned about trying to do things quickly, it doesn't work, remember?

Read this link in the vaults, and check those others at the top of the page out also. ---> http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus...tml?1093201399

Just open a second story window and put a fan blowing across it, should be done evaporating very quickly.

HEET, the car line defroster, is methanol under pressure. All you have to do is make a tube to run the HEET through, similar to making honey oil, and collect what comes out the other end. One of our friends did this back when you and I lived together, it came out that brownish goop, remember?

Ethanol wins in the extraction debate IMO. Just for the fact that you can consume it immediately when it is ready.

Thre365ive · 10-12-09, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcmoxtractor

I used 50/50 denatured (methanol/ethanol mix) then evap'd down to a small amount, added water and evaporated until alcohol had been gone for a while.

Didn't it come out ugly, though? I want crystals. I'm not really as excited about consuming it as I am just seeing some magic come out of solution and learning something.

Quote:

What have we learned about trying to do things quickly, it doesn't work, remember?

Sometimes it does.

Quote:

Read this link in the vaults, and check those others at the top of the page out also. ---> http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus...tml?1093201399

Just open a second story window and put a fan blowing across it, should be done evaporating very quickly.

Yeah, but that's also extra solvent I have to buy that I can't even recover.

Quote:

HEET, the car line defroster, is methanol under pressure. All you have to do is make a tube to run the HEET through, similar to making honey oil, and collect what comes out the other end. One of our friends did this back when you and I lived together, it came out that brownish goop, remember?

Brownish goop isn't acceptable. I want white. If anything, I would do this extraction, then recrystallize.

Quote:

Ethanol wins in the extraction debate IMO. Just for the fact that you can consume it immediately when it is ready.

I'd rather work a little more and get something clean. It's not like I have much else to do most days.

kcmoxtractor · 10-12-09, 19:17

Yeah, everything you just described sounds like you want a concentrated ethanol solution, like PF's. Concentrate that down and you get some fine looking white crystals.

Thre365ive · 10-12-09, 19:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcmoxtractor

Yeah, everything you just described sounds like you want a concentrated ethanol solution, like PF's. Concentrate that down and you get some fine looking white crystals.

No, I don't want a concentrated ethanol solution. I want the precipitate from a methanol solution combined with the precipitate from the ethanol solution.

Read the .pdf I posted and you'll understand why I want extractions from both solvents.

BuckarooBanzai · 10-12-09, 19:22

It has been previously established that PF's crystals were likely a sugar of some sort. They were demonstrated not to contain the actives. I have personally found that to be the case playing with ethanol.

Also, if you want to get down to pure crystals of psilocybin, you are going to have to do it under nitrogen.

Psilocybin (and psilocin) will oxidize very, very quickly in ambient air.

Thre365ive · 10-12-09, 19:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuckarooBanzai

It has been previously established that PF's crystals were likely a sugar of some sort. They were demonstrated not to contain the actives. I have personally found that to be the case playing with ethanol.

Good to know.

Quote:

Also, if you want to get down to pure crystals of psilocybin, you are going to have to do it under nitrogen.

Psilocybin (and psilocin) will oxidize very, very quickly in ambient air.

That's why I wasn't gonna evaporate to total dryness. I figure it'll at least last long enough to be weighed and eaten immediately. If they're still covered in solvent, they should last much longer.

I might be able to figure out how make a nitrogen-filled glivebox or something similar, though. IDK, I'm just thinking, really.

And I'd still love some solubility data if anybody has it or knows where to get it.

kcmoxtractor · 10-12-09, 21:37

Good to know about the ethanol crystals, I hadn't seen where that was shown to be inactive.

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10-11-09, 20:12	#1 (permalink)
Thre365ive Alchemycologist Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 359	Psilocybin extraction question Does anyone know psilocybin or psilocin's solubility in methanol, ethanol and/or isopropanol? Any temperature that the measurement is taken at will work, I can figure out the math myself. I'm trying to scheme up an extraction tek to try out and I can't find this info for the life of me. And just cause I was thinking about it, here's a paper on extraction that I found one day. It gives a superior solvent formula for extraction, but I wanna start with something simple. It also doesn't actually say how soluble the alkaloids are in the alcohol. My plan is to gently reflux some dried, powdered mushrooms in methanol for about 4 hours, then add a minimal amount of ethanol (can ethanol be dried with MGSO4?) and evaporate off the methanol to leave saturated ethanol and psilocybin. The file doesn't wanna upload right now. I'll try later. __________________ I stared God in the face and asked his name. He tickled me from the tips of my toes to the tip of my head. I knew that it didn't matter.

10-11-09, 20:52	#2 (permalink)
Thre365ive Alchemycologist Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 359	Got the file to upload. http://www.filehosting.org/file/deta...psilocybin.pdf Anybody know of a better file hosting site? Mediafire isn't working for me ATM, and this requires it to email you. __________________ I stared God in the face and asked his name. He tickled me from the tips of my toes to the tip of my head. I knew that it didn't matter.

10-12-09, 14:00	#5 (permalink)
kcmoxtractor Satan's Helper Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,349	I think running it in a coldfinger or something similar for several hours would work really well. __________________ "It was the straying that found the path direct" - Austin Osman Spare

10-12-09, 14:42	#6 (permalink)
BuckarooBanzai Prone to ranting... Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,050	Grinding them up and soaking in Everclear for a week or so works great. You can boil off as much of the alcohol as needed, but keep the solution liquid. Store in amber bottles in the freezer and it keeps quite effectively. __________________ Banzai Institute for Higher Education (a collection of growing Teks & threads)

10-11-09, 21:33	#3 (permalink)
hungryhippo999 Mycophage Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 120	FOAF used methanol extraction years ago and wouldn't advise it. It reallllly diminished potency. Potency is already lost in the drying process, then after the extraction the potency takes an even more drastic drop. Too much oxidation? I dont know. Unsure. Either way good luck if you try but in FOAF opinion he ruined a TON of potentially scrumptious shroomies! Reallllllly weaked after extracted....he had before and after. Just his personal experience.....

10-12-09, 18:47	#8 (permalink)
BuckarooBanzai Prone to ranting... Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,050	If you have refluxing equipment and are concerned about fumes, I would definitely consider ethanol. Refluxing would speed up the process dramatically and ethanol would leave an easily consumed final product. __________________ Banzai Institute for Higher Education (a collection of growing Teks & threads)

10-12-09, 18:53	#9 (permalink)
kcmoxtractor Satan's Helper Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,349	I used 50/50 denatured (methanol/ethanol mix) then evap'd down to a small amount, added water and evaporated until alcohol had been gone for a while. What have we learned about trying to do things quickly, it doesn't work, remember? Read this link in the vaults, and check those others at the top of the page out also. ---> http://archives.mycotopia.net/discus...tml?1093201399 Just open a second story window and put a fan blowing across it, should be done evaporating very quickly. HEET, the car line defroster, is methanol under pressure. All you have to do is make a tube to run the HEET through, similar to making honey oil, and collect what comes out the other end. One of our friends did this back when you and I lived together, it came out that brownish goop, remember? Ethanol wins in the extraction debate IMO. Just for the fact that you can consume it immediately when it is ready. __________________ "It was the straying that found the path direct" - Austin Osman Spare

10-12-09, 19:17	#11 (permalink)
kcmoxtractor Satan's Helper Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,349	Yeah, everything you just described sounds like you want a concentrated ethanol solution, like PF's. Concentrate that down and you get some fine looking white crystals. __________________ "It was the straying that found the path direct" - Austin Osman Spare

10-12-09, 19:22	#13 (permalink)
BuckarooBanzai Prone to ranting... Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 6,050	It has been previously established that PF's crystals were likely a sugar of some sort. They were demonstrated not to contain the actives. I have personally found that to be the case playing with ethanol. Also, if you want to get down to pure crystals of psilocybin, you are going to have to do it under nitrogen. Psilocybin (and psilocin) will oxidize very, very quickly in ambient air. __________________ Banzai Institute for Higher Education (a collection of growing Teks & threads)

10-12-09, 21:37	#15 (permalink)
kcmoxtractor Satan's Helper Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 1,349	Good to know about the ethanol crystals, I hadn't seen where that was shown to be inactive. __________________ "It was the straying that found the path direct" - Austin Osman Spare

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