Pan effects - is there a sedative element?

[Om shanti]

Most people seem to agree there is less bodyload with pans.

Does it also have a sort of sedative or tranquilizing effect, as if you got a bit of opium on top of your shroom trip?

I've only tried one strain of pan. cambodginiensis and no other pans, so I wonder whether it's either just me, or the strain, or.. something else.

What is your experience?

[mycowarrier]

Hey Om, i did them many years ago when i found them while cubie hunting. I did notice that i liked them better. I did'nt have high BP back then like i do now and the last time i did cubies i had a Hypertensive crisis. I am going to try Pans again and see if they have less of a body load.

[ishkaboo]

IMO even cubies have a sedative aspect. I know I will often lay on the cough completely still feeling like I am just floating or falling into the couch, kinda like if I take a bunch of oxy or other opiate.

I would say that if you are seeking this calming feeling from active mushrooms that you should practice mediation and pranayama in order to keep your emotions in check during the trip and facilitate relaxation as opposed to the opposite, energetic/uppity aspect of the trip.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pranayama

[Om shanti]

Hey Om, i did them many years ago when i found them while cubie hunting. I did notice that i liked them better. I did'nt have high BP back then like i do now and the last time i did cubies i had a Hypertensive crisis. I am going to try Pans again and see if they have less of a body load.

As I wrote to Mycowarrier yesterday I want to start tracking blood pressure effects of shrooms. Would be cool if anyone else who has the equipment, wants to subject themselves to a little clinical research on a trip.
Anyway, I actually don't know whether there is any significant difference in blood pressure effects between pans and cubes, I never got to measure it on either.

Originally Posted by ishkaboo

IMO even cubies have a sedative aspect. I know I will often lay on the cough completely still feeling like I am just floating or falling into the couch, kinda like if I take a bunch of oxy or other opiate.

I agree that a lot is determined by set and setting, you can definitely also feel sedated on cubes.But the way it is for me: on cubes a feeling of "sedation" may happen, depending on set/setting, but on pans it always seem to happen, it's hardly even possible for me to get agitated in any way. I heard the same experience from one friend (I don't know what strain that was), but not from anyone else. (didn't ask anyone either, until now)

[nightflyer]

You should try Panaeolus cinctulus (subbalteatus).
The trip differs clearly from Psilocybe and also from
Panaeolus cyanescens/cambodginiensis experiences.
It's more like meditating than tripping.
Dreamlike and colorful and with an
aphrodisiacal touch.
I have a paper from 1959 (Mycologia) describing the
different effects of Panaeolus cinctulus
and Psilocybe caerulescens. If anybody
is interested I will scan the paper and post it.

[rocketman]

i havent noticed any sedative effect from shrooms of any kind, but we are all different to a degree. i can be passed out drunk, eat some shrooms and be ready to roll in half an hour. the drunkeness gone, and energy back.

[Om shanti]

Thanks for your inputs, much appreciated.

Nightflyer, I took your lead and searched for the paper, and I think I found a publicly available and legal online version (at least they explicitly say thanks to the Mycological society of America. a lot of "Mycologia" is there: http://www.cybertruffle.org.uk/cyber...9350/index.htm).
page 1 - http://www.cybertruffle.org.uk/cyber...1/001/0049.htm
page 2 - http://www.cybertruffle.org.uk/cyber...1/001/0050.htm
I'm going to read it now. Is Pan. venenosus = cinctulus/Subalteatus ?

EDIT - I didn't notice at first - but there is a whole library for mycology online there:
http://www.cybertruffle.org.uk/cyberliber/index.htm
Looks interesting.

[Om shanti]

LOL, that article shows some changes have occurred in the last 50 years. A "patient" (disease = homosexual) volunteers to take mushrooms under the supervision of the doctor. It was only after he had heterosexual thoughts that he was allowed to participate.. But he got a lot of shrooms, it seems "The subject asked for more..." (which was granted by the good doctor).
Thanks for posting, nightflyer. Did you cultivate this pan species?

[nightflyer]

Panaeolus venenosus was the current name of
Panaeolus cinctulus in the US at that time (1959).

Yes, I tried Panaeolus cinctulus many times.
It's my favorite active.

Apparently it's not exactly the same paper.
That's the first page of my paper:

[Om shanti]

Nightflyer, it appears the paper you mention was published in Mycopathologia:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/ug25722p84073781/
I'd like to read it, but I think I can get my friend to download a PDF for me next week. :-)

[nightflyer]

Ok. Thank you very much for the links!
I am cultivating Panaeolus cinctulus periodically
on cased rye grass seed. Because Panaeolus
cinctulus is native to Europe, it is fruiting
without problems (in my kitchen!).
The natural substrate is composted
horse manure and (wheat) straw.
But it grows on rotten hay too.

[Om shanti]

I had the impression that some thought the Pan. cinctulus had a very heavy bodyload or were toxic (from this post: http://forums.mycotopia.net/holding-...tml#post469457 (A Short Note on the Home Cultivation of Panaeolus subbalteatus)), but after your praise I guess we no choice but to add them to the long list of species that have to be grown some time. :-) There aren't many growing these here, or at least not sharing it. Would be great if you would post some details and photos next time around. (please )

Let me make it clear (to quote Obama ;-) ), however, that I really do enjoy the pan. cambodginiensis. I'm just surprised about this sedative effect, not complaining. I feel it's sort of like the sedation from LSA seeds - a funny mix of stimulation and sedation at the same time. (and not with any of the LSA side effects of course)
But after hearing your responses and other's silence, I think maybe Rocketman is right, that it's probably largely an individual thing.

[nightflyer]

There is another paper you should read
about a Panaeolus cinctulus poisoning
in Scotland:

http://www.springerlink.com/content/u2k06532n1127671/

9 days after a Panaeolus cinctulus intoxication a 58 year old male
claimed that "his senses had been sharpened."

I can thoroughly confirm that long-term effect of Panaeolus cinctulus.

I will post some informations about Panaeolus
cinctulus cultivation next week.

And of course it's true what rocketman said.
The body chemistry of every individual is different
and so are the effects.

[nightflyer]

Originally Posted by Om shanti

There aren't many growing these here, or at least not sharing it. Would be great if you would post some details and photos next time around. (please )

Germinate the spores on 2% Malt-Extract-Agar or Potato-Dextrose-Agar.
Adjust the pH value of the agar medium to 4.5.

Use a little brush made of marten hair (for aquarell painting)
and sterilize it in boiling water for 2 min. Let a little drop of
water stick on the brush, pick up the spores and
SMEAR THE SPORES OVER THE WHOLE SURFACE OF THE AGAR.

Best temp for germination and vegetative growth is 86 F / 30 C.
(Yes I know, it's a temperate species but the best temp for
vegetative growth is 86 F / 30 C, nobody knows why)

After the agar plate is colonized, transfer the mycelium
to grass seed. After the jar is colonized, crumble the substrate
and spread it in a little plastic container. Cover the crumbled
substrate with a layer (1 cm) of cactus soil / Perlite mixture.
Keep the casing layer moist.

Fruiting temps range from 62 F to 77 F (17 C to 25 C).
Relative air humidity 80%-95%.

A Panaeolus cinctulus culture on grass seed:






On rich agar media, Panaeolus cinctulus forms sclerotia:

[Om shanti]

Thanks!!

A few questions:
How is the mycelium - weak/strong/speed of growth ?
Also, how long does it usually take to start pinning after it has been cased, and how long for the fruits to mature?

[nightflyer]

Originally Posted by Om shanti

Thanks!!
A few questions:
How is the mycelium - weak/strong/speed of growth ?
Also, how long does it usually take to start pinning after it has been cased, and how long for the fruits to mature?

Depends on the composition of the agar medium.
On weak agar medium, the mycelium looks quite similar
like Panaeolus cyanescens mycelium. On rich agar medium
the mycelium forms quickly little sclerotia.

For some unknown reason, the mycelium of Panaeolus cinctulus
grows slowly on agar, but fast on horse manure/straw.
That's the reason why I wrote: "Smear the spores over the
hole surface of the agar." Colonization of the agar plate is
much faster in this way.

Pinning starts a few days after casing and the fruitbodies
mature in 4-6 days, depending on the temps.

Important: After transferring the mycelium to
grass seed, shake the jar well for one minute.

[Om shanti]

Thanks a lot for the info!! Though I think it actually deserves its own thread for maximum exposure.

My pan. cambodginiensis is also quite slow on pf cakes, but when spawned to horsepoo/straw it also rips right through a 2x larger medium before a cubensis mycelium would even have regained consciousness.

[ethnobotanica]

Bump!

[Mermaidia]

I did not find them to have a sedative effect at all. I felt inspired and energized. I enjoyed not being laid out on the couch or floor, too messed up to move. Then again I'm a light weight and I did not push my limit with the pans.

Now if you are someone who always likes to push the limit and your threshold I'm not sure what the outcome will be. I have heard a few stories involving the fetal position and tears.

[ethnobotanica]

I can't wait to try these. Ive never eaten an active pan, I reckon its about time.

I am formulating a pan-tastic plan.

[hyphaenation]

You should run an Ingestigation ...

[RestartLater]

At first I thought you meant a frying pan to the head might have a sedative element.........LOL Why yes it does. knocks ya out......LOL

But never tried them that I know of only cubes..... but want to.


Re Start Later

PS Isn't pan myc a bit more delicate than cube etc?

[ethnobotanica]

Originally Posted by hyphaenation

You should run an Ingestigation ...

You crack me up Hyph.

That is exactly what I did have in mind though.

[Om shanti]

Originally Posted by RestartLater

PS Isn't pan myc a bit more delicate than cube etc?

Pan. Cyan/cambodginiensis mycelium is quite strong and fast, especially once it smells some poo. It may be weaker than some cube strains, but it's not weak like the Pan. Cinctulus nightflyer grows, or weak/very slow like some other exotic mushrooms are. The possible problems one might get with these "normal" pan species are not related to colonizing substrates, it's providing a suitable fruiting environment. In that respect they're not as forgiving as cubes.

Originally Posted by Mermaidia

I did not find them to have a sedative effect at all. I felt inspired and energized. I enjoyed not being laid out on the couch or floor, too messed up to move. Then again I'm a light weight and I did not push my limit with the pans.

Now if you are someone who always likes to push the limit and your threshold I'm not sure what the outcome will be. I have heard a few stories involving the fetal position and tears.

Yeah, I mostly feel sedated but lucid at the same time, if that makes any sense. :-) If you took small doses of LSA - it's that kind of feeling (not the possible side effects of course). But it's only of experience from one single strain of pan. cambodginiensis that I speak. One friend reported much the same "sedated" feeling from this particular pan. cambodginiensis strain- he also said he felt great but just wanted to lay in bed the whole time and not move. And I think it was on relatively low doses, less than 1 gram.

Anyway, I grew some Pan. cyan. Jamaicans, and will probably try them soon, so I can see if it's something to do with the strain perhaps.

I found this interesting advice about mixing Pans and Cubes from Sandoze, the father of the famous strain (speaking about Pan Cyan. Jamaicans - http://forums.mycotopia.net/exotic-m...n-jamaica.html (pan jamaica))

the body buzz was really extreme for cyans . i dont normally get a body high from them .really its a head trip with most of them , almost stricly all visuals with the other cyans . it keeps you a lot more lucid then cubs . none of that dreamy drifty feeling i get off the them . one thing i have noticed is that cyans dont give me that side splitting laughter i love about mushrooms . that feeling that the worlds gone crazy and everyone is absurd and all you an do is laugh tell it hurts then laugh somemore and pray that your not gonna piss your pants lol . but thats what is sooooo great about mixing them . you take the laughter properties of the cubs add the extreme visuals of the cyans and you have the perfect high . myself i like 3.5-5g of cubbies (haw,Z, can always really on those two cubs for laughter seazures ) and 1-2 g of the cyans . c-YA
later sandose

Anybody else do this (mixing cubes/pans)? It sounds like a good idea to me.

And yeah, let's borrow a great photo of Sandoze's pan cyan Jamaica grow just for the porn!


(again, not mine but Sandoze's!! (unfortunately))

[ethnobotanica]

Photo's like that are really getting the pan bug going in me!

Got some cinctulus germ'ing now courtesy of a very excellent member here, this strain reportedly has a psilocybin content of 0.75% and a baeocystin level of 0.36%, no psilocin, sounds pretty good to me for subb's.(rubs hands together, hee hee hee)

I've gotta plan to work my up the pan ladder.

[smiley]

Originally Posted by nightflyer

On rich agar media, Panaeolus cinctulus forms sclerotia:

Nightflyer have you ever grown the sclerotia instead of mushrooms with this species? It looks like a very interesting strain of pans.

[ethnobotanica]

Hey Smiley,

As your quite new here you might not have realized that when you quote a post you need to edit it a bit or you end up repeating all the pics as well resulting in a somewhat untidy thread..and besides, your question is obscured by the fact that most people are going to see the same pics twice and think "WTF" and most likely scroll on past your one sentence question. You may want to look in the Testing and Formating forum to learn how to post properly..http://forums.mycotopia.net/testing-formating/

Oh, and btw...Welcome to Topia.

peace

[nightflyer]

Originally Posted by smiley

Nightflyer have you ever grown the sclerotia instead of mushrooms with this species? It looks like a very interesting strain of pans.

That strain forms big sclerotia only on rich agar media,
like 4% malt extract agar, for example.

On other substrates like rye berries, grass seed, wild bird seed etc.
Pan. cinctulus forms only small sclerotia of about 3 mm in diameter.

And on it's natural substrate (composted horse poo/straw)
it doesn't form any sclerotia at all.