cobweb?

weissewolf · 11-03-09, 16:33

This is a friends first time trying wbs also his first time he printed and made his own syringe but this is how they look so far. He thinks it may be cobweb but isnt sure, it doesnt have the fast growth like cobweb but it looks too grey to be rhiz. He is using puerto rican btw.
He washed the wbs till the water was pretty clear and removed all floaters. He soaked them for about 20 hours, then strained and added more water and brought to a steam for 20 minutes. He let strain and sit in sink for a few hours. He then added to jars, put tyvek on the lids and sterilized at 12-15 psi for 1 hour. He let cool over night then innoc'ed. He previously printed by using a ghetto glovebox from a rubbermaid container. They dropped onto foil and then placed into a ziplock bag. He boiled some water, sucked it up into the syringe a couple times then let sit over night till cool. His girl got him syringes from the hospital so he doesnt think there was a problem with the syringe itself. He wiped down the ziplock bag with alcohol swabs and inserted the syringe into the bag and ejected the sterile water, rubbed around to loosen spores and sucked back up. During innoculation he used a homeade plastic "tent" and heated each needle before each jar.
If it is contaminated do you think it was how he prepared the wbs or how he made the syringe? He is thinking that maybe there was too much moisture in the jars or maybe how he took the initial print? His picture taking skills suck so they are a little blurry.
Thanks for any help.

MLBjammer · 11-03-09, 17:04

Your pictures are kind of blurry, but that looks like mycelium to me. That is generally how early mycelium looks on grain. Your methods sound valid, and cobweb will turn grey and quickly cover the whole jar (in something like a couple of days).

Good luck.

MushroomJoe · 11-03-09, 17:13

I second MLB. Looks like Myc to me. (The right one in the second pic for sure. I am a little doubtful of the first pic. But, the pics ARE a bit blurry)

weissewolf · 11-03-09, 17:14

He will see if he can take a better pic. Cameras confuse him

cutty · 11-03-09, 17:26

that third jar definetely looks like myc....

Alasdair · 11-03-09, 17:29

The first two jars look contamed. the third looks like mycelium with contam under it.

I think it was a mixture of both the soaking of the WBS, and the spore print you used. was it taken in sterile conditions? was the water used for the syringe sterilized? if the WBS looks to moist then I would say thats the main reason, but its probably a collaboration of things. Spore print, syringe, and over soaking. my friend... only soak his WBS for 8-12 hours, sometimes less, and he only steams them at a low temp for 15 min.

Try again, dont give up

weissewolf · 11-03-09, 17:32

Here is a couple more

MushroomJoe · 11-03-09, 17:47

Yeah, those shots almost definitely look like that bad grey matter. Contam.

Sorry about that, but as was said before. Don't give up. Analyze everything you did, and try to find ways to streamline your process and make it more sterile. It will come.

weissewolf · 11-03-09, 17:50

If he dumps them and and runs the jars through a pressure cooker should they be ok to be re-used?

Mermaidia · 11-03-09, 18:19

yea, you can dump the contents and bleach the jars, pc if you want to and reuse them.

I only throw out the complete jar when it's trich.

weissewolf · 11-03-09, 18:24

Sweet He will get back to work tonight. He will lessen the soak and steam times so the wbs is dryer. If it messes up again it might be because his prints are bad. Will keep ya all posted.

Alasdair · 11-03-09, 18:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mermaidia

yea, you can dump the contents and bleach the jars, pc if you want to and reuse them.

I only throw out the complete jar when it's trich.

I wouldnt use bleach. just wash with soap and pressure cook. bleach is usually mixed with water and the contam can come back... either way pressure cooking kills all.

weissewolf · 11-03-09, 22:40

Should scrubbing out the jars with soap and hot water then PC for 20 minutes at 12-15 psi sufficient for removing any bacteria?

MLBjammer · 11-04-09, 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alasdair

I wouldnt use bleach. just wash with soap and pressure cook. bleach is usually mixed with water and the contam can come back... either way pressure cooking kills all.

No, you definitely want to bleach clean those jars. Bleach kills everything. Soap and water do not.

I still think that your pictures are inconclusive at best.

Mermaidia · 11-04-09, 08:09

The third jar looked ok to me. That white looks like mycelium. I'd wait a bit longer to see how that one plays out. At times the mycelium can look thin and wispy till it gets a strong hold.

The first and second jar are toast imo. I'd toss them and start over.

You might want to check out Lazlo's WBS tek. It's the only one I use and it works the same everytime. Just follow the directions to a "T".
Here is a link http://forums.mycotopia.net/wild-bir...technique.html (Super fast and effective wbs/grain technique.)

Good luck!

TVCasualty · 11-04-09, 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by weissewolf

Should scrubbing out the jars with soap and hot water then PC for 20 minutes at 12-15 psi sufficient for removing any bacteria?

Looks like powdery mold, not cobweb. That's the kind of contam that puffs out an enormous cloud of spores when you open the lid or pour water in it or even just look at it funny (more than trich even). Seriously; if you crack the lid and pour a strong bleach/water solution in it, the mold still fills the air since clumps of mold spores have some kind of magic ability to repel water. I've poured concentrated bleach on moldy spots that looked like those in your jars and the bleach beaded up and ran right off.

If you open the jar under water (even bleach water), the bubbles that come to the surface will bring clouds of spores with them, they will cover you from head-to-toe, and you will bring them right back into your house. So, take a shower after cleaning out contamination.

To clean the jars without releasing any viable spores, PC them for an hour first, then open them in a bucket with some bleach water in it (open while holding it under water). If you PC a bad jar, dump it as soon as it's cool or it will re-contaminate quickly.

IMO, there's no need to ever throw away a jar since anything growing in it can be killed by PC'ing first, and I'd cook bad jars outdoors if possible since they can stink up the place pretty bad if the contamination is excessive.

weissewolf · 11-04-09, 14:37

He already dumped them then cleaned with soap and then pc'ed, he will clean with a bleach solution today. He did this in a separate room in the house so hopefully it didnt jump into the vents and contam the whole house. He is going to try a good spore print from a reliable source so he wont start back up till the end of the week hopefully. Within that time he says he will clean the hell out of anything that was near it. If the same thing happens this time he will let it still grow just incase it was some weak myc.

weissewolf · 11-05-09, 01:15

A local hydro store has earthworm/bat mix. My friend has used earthworm casting but he was wondering if the added bat guano would help any?

MLBjammer · 11-05-09, 05:15

I believe bat dung would be much too rich for mushroom cultivation. You want dung from animals that are grass-fed, cud-chewers, and grazers: cow, horse, donkey, sheep, rabbit, elephant, etc.

TVCasualty · 11-05-09, 08:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by weissewolf

He already dumped them then cleaned with soap and then pc'ed, he will clean with a bleach solution today. He did this in a separate room in the house so hopefully it didnt jump into the vents and contam the whole house.

Ideally, that kind of thing should be done outside. In my earlier reply I mentioned bringing spores "back in the house" because I guess I take it for granted that cleaning out funky jars will be done outdoors. Apparently I shouldn't take things like that for granted.

So, let me add that you should really clean contaminated jars outside. If you have to do it indoors (living in an apartment or whatever) then I would definitely PC them before opening any.

And if you wash them w/ soap and water and then bleach, that's all the jars need. You'll be PC'ing them again the next time you fill them up anyway.

I haven't tried guano, but I'd also bet that it's way too hot for fungus though it could probably be mixed in with something like straw and work. There might also be an issue with bacteria that other types of poop wouldn't have, so I'd consider sterilizing it rather than pasteurizing.

MLBjammer · 11-05-09, 08:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by weissewolf

He already dumped them then cleaned with soap and then pc'ed, he will clean with a bleach solution today. He did this in a separate room in the house so hopefully it didnt jump into the vents and contam the whole house. He is going to try a good spore print from a reliable source so he wont start back up till the end of the week hopefully. Within that time he says he will clean the hell out of anything that was near it. If the same thing happens this time he will let it still grow just incase it was some weak myc.

You should bleach clean your house, spray a few cans of Neutra-Air, and then bleach clean again.

weissewolf · 11-05-09, 14:30

Thanks for all the help everyone. Your right TV he should have known better since he had a trich problem a couple years back and contaminated his whole garage. Will start cleaning up.

copelandiaKidd · 11-05-09, 17:19

sorry bout those jars!!!!!

weissewolf · 11-05-09, 21:23

Its no thing. Gotta look on the bright side of life right

You dont learn by always doing things right, gotta make some mistakes.

MLBjammer · 11-06-09, 05:10

That is the attitude which will lead to your success in this hobby.

Good luck.

TVCasualty · 11-06-09, 08:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by weissewolf

Its no thing. Gotta look on the bright side of life right

You dont learn by always doing things right, gotta make some mistakes.

Yup. I'm good at diagnosing problems with people's grows precisely because I've made about every mistake possible. Twice.

Reading instructions tells us how to do something step-by-step, but repeatedly screwing up and sticking with it until we figure out exactly what went wrong tells us why we do each step. Then we can dream up new Teks that work the first time we try 'em.

MLBjammer · 11-06-09, 08:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVCasualty

Yup. I'm good at diagnosing problems with people's grows precisely because I've made about every mistake possible. Twice.

Reading instructions tells us how to do something step-by-step, but repeatedly screwing up and sticking with it until we figure out exactly what went wrong tells us why we do each step. Then we can dream up new Teks that work the first time we try 'em.

That was well-said, TV.

weissewolf · 11-06-09, 13:11

Did some more work last night by following lazlos tek this time. He used his homemade strainer, made from a rubbermaid container with small holes drilled into the bottom, to rinse the seed first. Then he put the wbs in his pressure cooker and added 2 1/2 tablespoons of hydrated lime. He then let it soak for roughly 2 1/2 hours. Most of the water was soaked up and what was left turned a reddish color so he dumped the seed back into his strainer and rinsed for a good 25 minutes till clear water was dropping out the bottom. He left it in the strainer a few hours (took a nap) to dry. He then filled the quart jars roughly 2/3 of the way full. He placed two peices of tyvek between the lids and now he is pressure cooking them at 15 psi for 1 1/2 hours.

weissewolf · 11-06-09, 15:14

Some jars straight out the pc.

Alasdair · 11-06-09, 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by MLBjammer

No, you definitely want to bleach clean those jars. Bleach kills everything. Soap and water do not.

I still think that your pictures are inconclusive at best.

Bleach does not kill everything. heat kills everything. and if you use bleach you could still spread spores. sorry to be rash but i know what im talking about

hes probably got mold spores all over his house, and if hes not wearing disposable tyvek then his clothes are covered to. bleach cant stop airborne things buddy

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11-03-09, 16:33	#1 (permalink)
weissewolf Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19	cobweb? This is a friends first time trying wbs also his first time he printed and made his own syringe but this is how they look so far. He thinks it may be cobweb but isnt sure, it doesnt have the fast growth like cobweb but it looks too grey to be rhiz. He is using puerto rican btw. He washed the wbs till the water was pretty clear and removed all floaters. He soaked them for about 20 hours, then strained and added more water and brought to a steam for 20 minutes. He let strain and sit in sink for a few hours. He then added to jars, put tyvek on the lids and sterilized at 12-15 psi for 1 hour. He let cool over night then innoc'ed. He previously printed by using a ghetto glovebox from a rubbermaid container. They dropped onto foil and then placed into a ziplock bag. He boiled some water, sucked it up into the syringe a couple times then let sit over night till cool. His girl got him syringes from the hospital so he doesnt think there was a problem with the syringe itself. He wiped down the ziplock bag with alcohol swabs and inserted the syringe into the bag and ejected the sterile water, rubbed around to loosen spores and sucked back up. During innoculation he used a homeade plastic "tent" and heated each needle before each jar. If it is contaminated do you think it was how he prepared the wbs or how he made the syringe? He is thinking that maybe there was too much moisture in the jars or maybe how he took the initial print? His picture taking skills suck so they are a little blurry. Thanks for any help. Attached Thumbnails

11-03-09, 17:13	#3 (permalink)
MushroomJoe Mycotechnician Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 238	I second MLB. Looks like Myc to me. (The right one in the second pic for sure. I am a little doubtful of the first pic. But, the pics ARE a bit blurry) __________________ "We are a way for the Universe to know itself, we are starstuff contemplating the stars." - Carl Sagan ~Temet Nosce~

11-03-09, 17:26	#5 (permalink)
cutty AKA~ Shaftner Join Date: Dec 1972 Posts: 1,620	that third jar definetely looks like myc.... __________________ I'd rather be sharin flowers, Then in the pen sharin showers.

11-03-09, 17:29	#6 (permalink)
Alasdair Aumbry Shaman Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 11	The first two jars look contamed. the third looks like mycelium with contam under it. I think it was a mixture of both the soaking of the WBS, and the spore print you used. was it taken in sterile conditions? was the water used for the syringe sterilized? if the WBS looks to moist then I would say thats the main reason, but its probably a collaboration of things. Spore print, syringe, and over soaking. my friend... only soak his WBS for 8-12 hours, sometimes less, and he only steams them at a low temp for 15 min. Try again, dont give up __________________ Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you may still exist, but you have ceased to live. ~Mark Twain~

11-03-09, 17:04	#2 (permalink)
MLBjammer Addicted to Invitro Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,877	Your pictures are kind of blurry, but that looks like mycelium to me. That is generally how early mycelium looks on grain. Your methods sound valid, and cobweb will turn grey and quickly cover the whole jar (in something like a couple of days). Good luck.

11-03-09, 17:14	#4 (permalink)
weissewolf Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19	He will see if he can take a better pic. Cameras confuse him

11-03-09, 17:32	#7 (permalink)
weissewolf Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19	Here is a couple more Attached Thumbnails

11-03-09, 17:47	#8 (permalink)
MushroomJoe Mycotechnician Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 238	Yeah, those shots almost definitely look like that bad grey matter. Contam. Sorry about that, but as was said before. Don't give up. Analyze everything you did, and try to find ways to streamline your process and make it more sterile. It will come. __________________ "We are a way for the Universe to know itself, we are starstuff contemplating the stars." - Carl Sagan ~Temet Nosce~

11-03-09, 17:50	#9 (permalink)
weissewolf Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19	If he dumps them and and runs the jars through a pressure cooker should they be ok to be re-used?

11-03-09, 18:19	#10 (permalink)
Mermaidia Comfortably Numb Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,554	yea, you can dump the contents and bleach the jars, pc if you want to and reuse them. I only throw out the complete jar when it's trich. __________________ Live life so completely that when death comes to you like a thief in the night, there will be nothing left for him to steal.

11-03-09, 18:24	#11 (permalink)
weissewolf Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19	Sweet He will get back to work tonight. He will lessen the soak and steam times so the wbs is dryer. If it messes up again it might be because his prints are bad. Will keep ya all posted.

11-03-09, 22:40	#13 (permalink)
weissewolf Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19	Should scrubbing out the jars with soap and hot water then PC for 20 minutes at 12-15 psi sufficient for removing any bacteria?

11-04-09, 08:09	#15 (permalink)
Mermaidia Comfortably Numb Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 3,554	The third jar looked ok to me. That white looks like mycelium. I'd wait a bit longer to see how that one plays out. At times the mycelium can look thin and wispy till it gets a strong hold. The first and second jar are toast imo. I'd toss them and start over. You might want to check out Lazlo's WBS tek. It's the only one I use and it works the same everytime. Just follow the directions to a "T". Here is a link http://forums.mycotopia.net/wild-bir...technique.html (Super fast and effective wbs/grain technique.) Good luck! __________________ Live life so completely that when death comes to you like a thief in the night, there will be nothing left for him to steal.

11-04-09, 14:37	#17 (permalink)
weissewolf Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19	He already dumped them then cleaned with soap and then pc'ed, he will clean with a bleach solution today. He did this in a separate room in the house so hopefully it didnt jump into the vents and contam the whole house. He is going to try a good spore print from a reliable source so he wont start back up till the end of the week hopefully. Within that time he says he will clean the hell out of anything that was near it. If the same thing happens this time he will let it still grow just incase it was some weak myc.

11-05-09, 17:19	#23 (permalink)
copelandiaKidd Void Of Boundaries Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 579	sorry bout those jars!!!!! __________________ "LEARN THE RULES SO YOU CAN BREAK THEM PROPERLY" -The Dali lama "i don't care if it eats my cat, as long as the damn thing fruits"~ prism

11-05-09, 01:15	#18 (permalink)
weissewolf Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19	A local hydro store has earthworm/bat mix. My friend has used earthworm casting but he was wondering if the added bat guano would help any?

11-05-09, 05:15	#19 (permalink)
MLBjammer Addicted to Invitro Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,877	I believe bat dung would be much too rich for mushroom cultivation. You want dung from animals that are grass-fed, cud-chewers, and grazers: cow, horse, donkey, sheep, rabbit, elephant, etc.

11-05-09, 14:30	#22 (permalink)
weissewolf Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19	Thanks for all the help everyone. Your right TV he should have known better since he had a trich problem a couple years back and contaminated his whole garage. Will start cleaning up.

11-05-09, 21:23	#24 (permalink)
weissewolf Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19	Its no thing. Gotta look on the bright side of life right You dont learn by always doing things right, gotta make some mistakes.

11-06-09, 05:10	#25 (permalink)
MLBjammer Addicted to Invitro Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,877	That is the attitude which will lead to your success in this hobby. Good luck.

11-06-09, 13:11	#28 (permalink)
weissewolf Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19	Did some more work last night by following lazlos tek this time. He used his homemade strainer, made from a rubbermaid container with small holes drilled into the bottom, to rinse the seed first. Then he put the wbs in his pressure cooker and added 2 1/2 tablespoons of hydrated lime. He then let it soak for roughly 2 1/2 hours. Most of the water was soaked up and what was left turned a reddish color so he dumped the seed back into his strainer and rinsed for a good 25 minutes till clear water was dropping out the bottom. He left it in the strainer a few hours (took a nap) to dry. He then filled the quart jars roughly 2/3 of the way full. He placed two peices of tyvek between the lids and now he is pressure cooking them at 15 psi for 1 1/2 hours. Attached Thumbnails

11-06-09, 15:14	#29 (permalink)
weissewolf Mycophiliac Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 19	Some jars straight out the pc. Attached Thumbnails

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