Growing with LEDs

[JacksonApple]

Anybody heard about this? Was reading about it on another forum, seems pretty interesting. Uses A LOT less energy, creates little to no heat, and you can control the color spectrum of the light.

Thoughts? Anybody try growing with LEDs?

[joekickass]

I read something about those when I was an active member of another forum, let's see if I can find it...

K, I found it, it basically talks about the specifics and I'm pretty sure it follows a grow with only LED's, enjoy!

BTW, if I'm not supposed to link to another forum, my bad, feel free to edit

LED lights with pics - Grasscity.com Forums

[Endo]

i looked into it myself.. and if you go a little deeper research wise, it turns out that these are the wave of the FUTURE, but as of right now, theses sets that they sell are basically only good for like 1 plant at a time, and even that was a little sketchy. its a great idea.. but you have to have ALOT of leds, which will still use alot less electricity. also from what i have read there are "better" leds but they are still very expensive. i cant wait for the day when my whole grow room will be coverd in led lights and it will only be comuming like 100 watts of power.. makes me drool just thinking about it.

[owenbowen04]

maybe you could just "borrow" a traffic light...

i don't think that the bigger led's are that far away from being affordable. samsung televisions are introducing a new projection tv that uses the same led's that are in traffic lights. so another hop, skip and jump down the road and they may be in our closets!!
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[Dipole]

These "new" LEDs, the forest green, blue, white, and UV have been around for a long time. In the last 5 or so years a breakthrough was made that increased the manufacturing yield a whole bunch. So the price came down a lot. They are expensive when buying small quantity from a US distributor, but much cheaper if purchased in China. The new stuff is pennies an LED over there.

It would be possible to make 100 LED light panels for under $10 over there. A panel like that would consume around 15W and be 2" square. One would have to order several thousand panels to get anyones attention.

[Dave_the_stoner]

The technology is coming along LED grow light, Gardening Plants, Lamps, Lighting, Ceiling Fans items on eBay.com
I've been keeping an eye on these horticulture LEDs for a good while now, I would love to have more efficient lighting.

Also I know standard LEDs can last a good 20 years, I wonder how long these will emmit good PAR?

[abaca]

This is very interesting. No heat from HID of CFL
bulbs could make for very stealthy grows. A little off topic but LED's could be used for mushies too

[Hippie3]

http://forums.mycotopia.net/light-li...s-led-tek.html

[JacksonApple]

Dave, that 14w light kit on eBay (according to seller) puts out 4900 LUX (lumens per square meter) at 12". In comparison a HPS that a friend has runs 600w at 88,000 lumens. That's actually pretty damn good if you ask me..

[Dave_the_stoner]

I'm just waiting to see them in action a little more before ordering one. It seems too good to be true, so I'm a bit skeptical at the moment.

[toasty]

I can get 6" x 2" red and yellow leds and also 2" x 1" red and yellow leds. These all have pig tails and are 12v.

[Foster]

Heh. Started a thread bout led's at another forum. Been doin alot of research on these and they appear to be usable.

However, a few key points, : Lux or lumens arent really that important when it comes to leds. Its all about the par. Lux/lumens are a measure of light as it applies to visible spectrum. In other words what you see. Par is the photo response for plant growth. As far as growing goes, you only need 2 colrs. Red and blue. you want leds desiigned to put out light in the peak response areas(430-450nm blue and 630-650 red) The led gro lights being marketed are not using the high wattage leds. high output yes. (but not really, when compared to single 5 or 6 watt leds.It appears as though they may be great for supplemental lighting, but until the higher wattage leds are more in play, the ones being sold/used now just dont have the umph to penetrate, and it would take so many.IMO the best applicationj using leds as primary lighting would be in a small cabinet, tub, or some other totally enclosed growth chamber with reflective surfaces.cannaseedcollective has a few threads about em,including fosters(mine) and Glasshopper has some great led info here also.

peace foster

[theGreenSatyr]

this is particularly interesting to me. stealthiness is very desirable in this kinda thing... but i dont have to tell you guys that

[Dave_the_stoner]

Originally Posted by toasty

I can get 6" x 2" red and yellow leds and also 2" x 1" red and yellow leds. These all have pig tails and are 12v.

Sounds interesting, where do you aquire them from?

[Dipole]

Has anyone seen information about the LED makeup of a panel? Using super bright reds and blues in clear T1-3/4 plastic package, what ratio is used?

Is packing those packages as tight as possible good enough?

[Pedestrian]

They work....


I have had success with using only 1 super bright white LED.


Why use 40 when you can use 1.

[JacksonApple]

How'd you manage that, an LED the size of your head?

[Dipole]

Are we trying to pin mushrooms or grow pot?

Pot requires watts.

[Dave_the_stoner]

Originally Posted by Dipole

Pot requires watts.

Not exactly, pot requires PAR, the PAR of LED's is unknown (at least to me), but I'm under the impression that they produce quite a bit of PAR/watt after seeing some of the results out there.
The only reason people like you and me worry about watts is because we use floros, and HID's, the PAR of which has a close relation to the watts, so we can measure it in watts with no worries.

[JacksonApple]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

They work....
I have had success with using only 1 super bright white LED.
Why use 40 when you can use 1.

How about some details? Pictures?

[Dipole]

The PAR per watt ratio for the LEDs would be perfect along with the relative amount of red and blue. BTW, PAR is measured in watts.

[Dave_the_stoner]

I'm pretty sure that PAR isnt measured in watts, but rather it's measured in PAR per watt.
Correct me if I'm mistaken.

[JacksonApple]

My friend's been kicking around the idea of trying to grow a plant w/ LEDs just for the fun of it. He's looking at a 14w kit from LED Grow Lights - HomeGrownLights.com.
Stick one of those puppies in a cabinet w/ a fan, I bet he could grow a single plant pretty well, especially with some carefully placed reflectors. Pretty stealthy..

[Dipole]

PAR is in watts. PAR / watt would be watts of plant useful light per watt of electrical power. This is the efficiency of a bulb to convert electric power into power that a plant can use.

The HID bulb information that OG shows even lists the PAR in watts. For example there is a typical 400W bulb that outputs 205 watts PAR. That is about 50% efficient. Typical for HIDs.

You always think in terms of electric power, that is why you use 50 watts per square foot as a good light intensity. If you go by PAR, then you are talking 25 watts PAR per square foot.

If you are going to compare lighting methods you have to compare by PAR and penetrating effectiveness. Light penetration is higher with intensity.

Somewhere in OG there was a PAR of 15W for a 23W CFL(100W equiv). But CFL PAR is not a effective as HID PAR. So from what I can tell from my use of CFLs, the PAR is more like 7.5W PAR per 23W CFL. About 33% efficient.

LEDs have narrow color outputs so what should the PAR watts per square foot should be is a question. I have found on the net that 1 blue LED to every 4 red LEDs is a good mix, I have also seen 1:8 ratio too. Also, that 40 watts of LED electric power is the same as 250 watts of HID electric power. This would suggest to me that the PAR for LEDs is more effective than HID. So PAR don't seem to compare, that is:

HID PAR/sq.ft. <> CFL PAR/sq.ft. <> LED PAR/sq.ft.

LED spectra also don't match the absorption peaks for chlorophyll A closely. So figuring out a LED chamber design will have to be done the Edison way.
Solution Edison

[Dipole]

I see that the 14W kit uses LEDs of 1 blue to every 3 red. The light will be very directional, you will need to diffuse the light with a clear car lens kind of thing. Off hand I would think that you will need more, maybe 3???

I hope you like soldering. ~570 solder pads per unit!

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by JacksonApple

How about some details? Pictures?

Sure....For shrooms. One Super Bright LED, on 3 volts, in the lid of the chamber. That lights up the entire bottom of the unit. Of course its not as bright as 40, but it gets the job done when your box is somewhere always dark.



Now I know you're talking about LEDs for plants.

Now LEDs for pot..... sounds like a pipe dream to me.

[Dave_the_stoner]

Originally Posted by Pedestrian

Now LEDs for pot..... sounds like a pipe dream to me.

Pipe dreams can come true

[JacksonApple]

Didn't realize you were talking about fungus..

People initially scoffed at HPS Lighting for growing and considered it just a pipe dream. And those damn things are like a second frickin' sun.


Oh great Marijuana gods, give us the technology and information to make LED growing more feasible.

[Dipole]

A Director of Education at the Department of Energy says that chlorophyll-A absorbs best from 400-440nm and 660-680nm. There are LEDs at 430nm and 472nm. Now I am going to try to find specs on Asian LEDs at those colors. I hope I can find something. The Chinese are not good at documentation, they are too busy copying shit.

[Dipole]

A friend found this posted 8-24-07:

LED lights with pics - Page 23 - Grasscity.com Forums

VTEC, I am impressed with your led trial. You are very close but are missing a very key aspect. I am a Mechanical Engineer and have been working with Purdue University with LED growing arrays for 2 years. We are currently in the patent process. Our lights are 300 watts and outperform 1000 watt HID lights easily. Our initial aim was to just match the performance. We experienced the same lack of Biomass that you witnessed. Eventually, we were unable to unlock the secret. In addition, flowering times were dropped from 8 weeks to 6 weeks.
All I can really tell you is that the plants response to the red and blue peaks is only half the story. There are a few key spectrums that are needed in addition for the plants to be able to process the energy. Think of the red and blue as fuel that is only partially available. It needs an additional catalyst to reach 100%. One more note, we have found the CO2 enhancement is mandatory when using LED lighting. Next month our Phillips based lighting will become available to the public. We are already working on new systems that match the plants physiology more efficiently.
The lights MSRP is around 800 dollars. They cover a 4X4 foot area intensely. There is no separate ballast and they are fully waterproof. I am sorry but this is all I can tell you at this point. There will be only 500 units initially so if any of you are interested, I might be able to hold a unit for you. My email is nleaton@purdue.edu.

MJ Gods are there. The price totally sucks but that's academia for you.

[Pedestrian]

Originally Posted by JacksonApple

Didn't realize you were talking about fungus..

I was so high I didn't realize I was in grassroots

Originally Posted by JacksonApple

People initially scoffed at HPS Lighting for growing and considered it just a pipe dream. And those damn things are like a second frickin' sun.


Oh great Marijuana gods, give us the technology and information to make LED growing more feasible.

true.... technology will always surprise us