hydro questions

[teesus]

hi all!

i've never grown hydroponic. i've seen lots of good threads here at topia where hydrosystems where used and i want to build a small one as well. my idea is a simple passive system with leca and a bubbler with airstone

from what i belive to know i would built something like that.

what do you guys think? would this work or do i miss something? is the level of solution on the right hight? do you think i need a ec conductivity meter or can i do it without?
if you have any suggestions for me i am very happy.thanks!

[teesus]

the pic

[dukeOfPrunes]

An EC meter is a must. You just can't guess the solution with hydro like you can with soil - particularly if your going with bubblers. If the solution is even a tad too high, you'll plants will tell you pretty much straight away, and it will just cause you headaches. Better to dial in the correct EC, probably even lower than you think, then work it from there. Under fetilisation is better than over-fertilisation.

If you are growing from seed, wait until 2-3 weeks from germination, or until you see the second set of true leaves, and feed with a weak solution of about 0.4EC. In general, it's better to keep the EC lower than normal if the roots are suspended in the solution ime.

From clone, start them off at 0.7/0.8EC. The solution can be raised roughly 0.2 points every week until you hit 1.2 during veg. Any higher than that and the plant doesn't really respond very well ime. Of course, it's pretty strain dependant so this is not a hard and fast rule, and some will eat more than others, but this method has been working for me. If she's a heavy feeder, then bump up the EC 0.2 points and leave for a few days and you'll see if it's had an effect.

Similarly during flowering, the EC can be raised as high as the plant dictates, but generally won't go as high as 2.0. 1.8 will do it ime. But like I said, let the plant dictate how much feed to give, and keep it on the lower side until she asks for more. If you get to 1.8 and she wants more, then by all means bump it to 2.0, but all this can be tackled once you get to that stage. Get the seedling or clone vegging tackled first, then deal with flowering when you need to.

If you notice that the EC is rising, then back off the nutes, as the plant is not eating as much as you are feeding it. If the EC is falling, then add a little bit more, since the plant is lapping up the nutes. If the EC is stable, you've dialled it in!

Keep the res touching the bottom of the hydroton-filled net pot until you see the roots feeding through, then lower the solution to about 2-3'' below the net-pot. This provides a nice aeroponic environment for the upper part of the roots since these are the parts of the roots that love oxygen. The lower parts of the roots will grow down and feed on the water and nutes in the res.


And get yourself a pH pen as well mate. Keep it between 5.5 and 6.1. I like to dial it in at 5.7 and let it stabilise at 6.1 before lowering it again. It takes around 2 days for this to happen, but it ensures that each element and micro-nutrient can be absorbed by your plant, since each element has a particular 'pH-zone'.


I love DWC hydro. The growth is immense, and it's a great way to learn hydro I think. Also, especially at this time of year when temps send your plants mental and pythium can be a problem, because each plant is contained in a seperate res, problems in one res don't spread to another. One of my clones got root-rot last week, and if I had an external reservoir and was implementing a recirculating system, I might have lost more than just one plant.

Hope this helps.

[teesus]

thats good input.
thanks alot duke!

[ShroomGuerilla]

The tri-meter has been made my hydro setup very very efficient. Ive found that ph in hydro systems fluctuates ten-fold more than soil. So Duke is more than right saying you need a PH meter.
If anything get a ph meter, but the tri-meter twas the best couple hundred bucks I've spent.

good luck

[procell]

Originally Posted by dukeOfPrunes

An EC meter is a must.

Been growing for years without an ec meter, now a ph meter is a diff story.
Need PH readings. The GH drops work great.
If you are trying to use the max nutes a plant will take then I guess an EC meter is really needed.
Just go easy with the nutes in the beginning and watch your plants.

The plan looks good, add a 90deg barb, grommet, and a clear tube running up towards the top for H2O level check and drainage.
You will want to change the nutes at certain times in the run.
Your bubbler also does not need to run 24/7, 15 min every 4 hours is good.
Good luck.

[dukeOfPrunes]

Originally Posted by procell

Your bubbler also does not need to run 24/7, 15 min every 4 hours is good.
Good luck.

I would run the pump & airstone 24/7. Oxygenating the water keeps the roots happy, and massively reduces the chance of root-zone infection by pathological bacteria that love stagnant, oxygen-deprived water. The whole point of bubbling the res is to make sure that the plants have as much oxygen as they need is it not?
More oxygen = healthier roots = healthier plant.

During a hydroponic grow, as water moves past the roots microscopic bubbles of oxygen gas in the water are transferred from the water to the plant. This transfer is efficient only above certain concentrations. Too low, and the plant will not survive.

Lack of oxygen at the roots retards root respiration, leading to the shut-down of photosynthesis in extreme cases of oxygen deprivation. The health and vigour of a plant are dependent upon its roots getting enough oxygen and the plant can only grow as well as its roots allow. Your growth above ground will be proportional to your root growth.

The oxygen in the res also allows the roots to extract water and nutrients with much less energy. Give the roots more oxygen, and they use less energy feeding.

Keeping the res cool (at or under 68F) also increases the level of dissolved oxygen in the system since the solubility of oxygen is greater in colder water than in warm water. Couple a cold res with a constant and vigourous supply of fresh oxygen and your plants will love you for it.

[procell]

Originally Posted by dukeOfPrunes

I would run the pump & airstone 24/7.

.

Depends on your lighting, or size of air stone or size of pump, i guess.
My friends ran 24/7 and 15min every4 hours.
The plants run 24/7 stretched more and became almost vine like.
Not dense buddage. This was under (12) T-12s at a temp of less then 70 deg.
The same run with less air introduced produced denser buds.
I'm only sayin . . .


Your results will vary, only testing of your situation will proving concrete results of growth in that environment.

Then again, everyone in the collective is now running Ebb & Flo with better results and using DWC for mothers and clones.

p.s. Ike Willis singing "Whippin Post" during the Them or Us tour made me cry . . .

.

[dukeOfPrunes]

Originally Posted by procell

.

Depends on your lighting, or size of air stone or size of pump, i guess.
My friends ran 24/7 and 15min every4 hours.
The plants run 24/7 stretched more and became almost vine like.
Not dense buddage. This was under (12) T-12s at a temp of less then 70 deg.
The same run with less air introduced produced denser buds.
I'm only sayin . . .


Your results will vary, only testing of your situation will proving concrete results of growth in that environment.

Then again, everyone in the collective is now running Ebb & Flo with better results and using DWC for mothers and clones.

p.s. Ike Willis singing "Whippin Post" during the Them or Us tour made me cry . . .

.

Really? I just assumed that better roots=vigouous growth=more bud. I honestly wouldn't assume that less air in the root-zone would actually produce denser buddage. I'm not debating your friends' results, but I thought that it would stress the plant somewhat as it would have to work harder to uptake the O2 from the root-zone, and subsequently also work harder to feed.

In my set-up, running the pump only every so often is just not practical because of the heat from the 400W bulb. I'd get pythium in every res because of the temps, so my only option is to try and aerate the solution with as much O2 as I can muster and chill each res with ice since I don't have a cooler.

I'm not having a go, it just kinda goes against everything I thought I knew about DWC. I always assumed that you can never have too much O2. But like you say - depends on each individual set-up. I suppose under T12's, heat is not an issue - certainly if the temps stay under 70F - and because keeping the res cool is not an issue, these pathological bacteria can't get a chance to thrive, so your root-zone stays healthy.

And Ike Willis was one of the finest rhythm guitarists i've ever heard... I totally missed the boat on the live performances through no fault of mine - by the time the contraception failed, Zappa was almost done touring - but i'm making up for it by gathering as many DVD's and concert performances as I can - much to the dismay of my g/f.

Zappa "makes her ears uncomfortable".

[procell]

Originally Posted by dukeOfPrunes

Really? I just assumed that better roots=vigouous growth=more bud. I honestly wouldn't assume that less air in the root-zone would actually produce denser buddage.It just kinda goes against everything I thought I knew about DWC. I always assumed that you can never have too much O2.

Yup, that was the general thinking at the time. (8) 3 inch air stones run out of 2 air pumps was too much. It grew wildly and got long and stringy

One Plant

http://forums.mycotopia.net/attachme...pict0006sm.jpg

[growDaddy]

Is that just one plant?

[prism1234]

Interesting thread!

[growDaddy]

This is my first hydro grow and I have some problem that I can't figure out.
I have a small space, 2'x3'x7' and am using 2 150 hps lights an 4 55w cfls. I have a fan pulling out the top and have 4 passive inputs, 1- 6" from the AC duct, 1- 6" from the bottom of the room, 1-4" and 1-2.5" from the mother room. I have a U shaped 4" pvc tube with 9 holes sitting on top of a 20-gal nute tank. I have several muffin fans (computer fans) blowing a slight breeze on the plants. I started with 9 clones of very good stain from a friend. The plants all started normally about 9 weeks ago then things started to happen to them. 2 dried up and died soon after the planting. I keep the ph close to 6 and the nutes are very low for veging. The temp inside the room is always between 76-80. A couple of weeks later 2 more died, just dried up. I water 15 mins every 3 hours. Then a couple of weeks ago 3 more died. I now have 2 plants, one 5-6" and one 8-9". Help.

[procell]

Originally Posted by growDaddy

This is my first hydro grow and I have some problem that I can't figure out.

Hummmm, I would give them more water. It seems like either too much water or too much light. Only a guess.
good luck.
If growdaddy was asking, yes that was mainly 1 plant with 2 little ones in the back

[growDaddy]

thanks for the reply procell.
I haven't seem that many plants in my 40 years of toking but that is one big plant!

[prism1234]

Good gawd procell!!

[dukeOfPrunes]

Originally Posted by procell

Yup, that was the general thinking at the time. (8) 3 inch air stones run out of 2 air pumps was too much. It grew wildly and got long and stringy

One Plant

http://forums.mycotopia.net/attachme...pict0006sm.jpg

I stand corrected! Nice plant.

My skunk plant is growing properly wild mind you - nearly 6 feet, and that does have a fair amount of air pumping into the res - although it is definitely not long and stringy. The budsites are packing on quite nicely, but trying to keep her under control is a fucking nightmare!! I might have given the less air thing a go in the future if I wasn't switching to coco for the next run.....

[procell]

Originally Posted by procell

Hummmm, I would give them more water. It seems like either too much water or too much light. Only a guess.
good luck.
If growdaddy was asking, yes that was mainly 1 plant with 2 little ones in the back

Opps meant to say It seems like either Not enough water or too much light.

[growDaddy]

I water 15 minutes every 3 hours. The rock wool stays moist.
Too much light?
I have 7500 lumen per sq foot. I believe that the second 150hps was producing too much heat for the space. That ballast was also in the grow room. I replaced the 150hps with 2 more 55w cfls. This brings me down to 6266 lumen per sq foot.
I now have one 150whps and 6 55w cfls. I also put a carbon filter in one corner with another fan sucking air through the filter. This increased my air flow and reduced my temp from 78-80 to 74-76. I have replaced the six sickly girls with six more clones from the same source. They all look healthy after about a week.
What a trip it was (is) to get the small grow room correct. The light, temp, air flow, nutes, ph, ...

[billySmokeDope]

I am in the process of setting up my first hydro grow and have been reading the forums to get ideas/help. Is it really that hard to get and keep the water right?

[Lookyhere]

type ebb and flow in your google toolbar. Then click images. Then look at some of the images and it will take you to various designs that you can build at home. I came across 5 or 6 different nice blueprints for DIY. I put a bunch of these websites/designs link in a different thread where someone was looking to build a hydro setup. If you are going to build it yourwself, I recommend doing an Ebb and flow. Even if you don't duilt it yourself I still recommend doing that. Then once a week or so water by hand from the top with about 400% extra solution so that all of the salts wash out and you don't get builup.

[growDaddy]

Originally Posted by Lookyhere

Then once a week or so water by hand from the top with about 400% extra solution so that all of the salts wash out and you don't get builup.

Just to get this straight - I should take say a gal of water and put 4 times the amount of nutes in it and water the girls from the top once a week?

that just seems like it would burn them!

but, then what do I know

[Lookyhere]

No, no, no, no, no. Take your normal solution that you are using and water with that 4 times the amount of water that it will hold.

[billySmokeDope]

Thanks, looky, I plan to go the Ebb and Flow route, build it myself, bagseeds, but with all the problems growDaddy seems to be having, I myself now have doubts.

Then maybe growDaddy is just an idiot?

[growDaddy]

Originally Posted by billySmokeDope

Then maybe growDaddy is just an idiot?

I resemble that remark

[billySmokeDope]

Calm down growDaddy, I'm toking and joking

but

if you have this much trouble growing a 'weed' and you seem to live in texas . . .

I rest my case!

[Lookyhere]

It's really not as simple as growing a 'weed'. When I was a kid, I was always told that it grows so easily, it's a weed. Not the case. Anyway, hydroponics is pretty easy I think, and I wouldn't be discouraged. Cool stuff.

[growDaddy]

maybe I am an idiot?

[lucysd]

Originally Posted by ShroomGuerilla

The tri-meter has been made my hydro setup very very efficient. Ive found that ph in hydro systems fluctuates ten-fold more than soil. So Duke is more than right saying you need a PH meter.
If anything get a ph meter, but the tri-meter twas the best couple hundred bucks I've spent.

good luck

omg thats some hortiporn you got there jeez i wish i had that one

yeah make sure you get a good meter