pH problems

[scientia]

I've made the leap to hydro (aero) for my next grow. Still purps/blueberry clones, and I already seem to have a problem. My pH keeps rising on me. I take it down to 5.7/5.8, and in a matter of hours it shoots back up to 6.4 or above.

The res is ~10gal, and the only things I'm running right now are pureblend pro grow and hydroguard, with an EC of 0.6.

[scientia]

Well, I changed the res and it seems to have stabilized now. I guess it was the hydroton not being washed good enough or something.

[Lookyhere]

I had always read that 5.7 5.8 was an ideal and perfect PH. IME a little higher was in fact better. Had a lot less problems with a 6.0-6.5 ph. If I remember correctly 6.2-6.4 or so was what we ended up deciding to keep it at. We just very slightly altered the ph of the filtered tap water and found that we had the best results doing this. The more we messed with the ph, problems started setting in.

[growDaddy]

When I use tap water the ph is initially very high. If I us ph-down to lower it, my ppm shoots up around 2000. I tried to leave the tap water sit out in sunlight and the first time this brought the ph down to good level, but I have done the same thing 2 or 3 more times and the ph will not come down?
The last rain I caught some rain water and the ph was good in that. I used the rain water (with h2o2 to kill bad stuff) and that was fine, but it doesn't rain that much in summer in Texas so I need to use tap water or buy/build a RO thing. But I thought that if I leave the tap water out it would be OK, but not every time for me, any ideas? suggestions? comments?

[livewire420]

i agree with lookyhere. do you have a ph/ppm meter?

Originally Posted by Lookyhere

I had always read that 5.7 5.8 was an ideal and perfect PH. IME a little higher was in fact better. Had a lot less problems with a 6.0-6.5 ph. If I remember correctly 6.2-6.4 or so was what we ended up deciding to keep it at. We just very slightly altered the ph of the filtered tap water and found that we had the best results doing this. The more we messed with the ph, problems started setting in.

[lucysd]

well i was having the same problem on the opposite end of the spectrum

i got something from general hydroponics called floraclean
which is supposed to get all the salts out of a medium and rootzone thus fixing the ph and ppm problems , i have yet to use it soooooo

ill keep yall posted

whenever i water

if i use sixpoint 4

the backwash or whatever its called i keep forgeting(what comes outta the drainage holes)
is always in the fours and fives so we will see how this flora clean character works hehehe

[Lookyhere]

I have always used filtered water. Reverse osmosis is the shit. Houston has some crappy water, and Denver, well their water isn't bad, but I like to start off with almost zero ppm.

[growDaddy]

Originally Posted by Lookyhere

I have always used filtered water. Reverse osmosis is the shit. Houston has some crappy water, and Denver, well their water isn't bad, but I like to start off with almost zero ppm.

Actually the last two times I used filtered water and let them sit out for a day of sunshine, but the PH was still really high. My aim is to start off with almost zero ppm, but only the rain water and my first gal made it close to zero ppm, and I need to add water soon. Once I add water that is ph high I have to add ph-down and this really brings my ppm way way up.

[dukeOfPrunes]

Could be one of two things:

Excessive rising of pH could be an indication of bacteria in the root-zone. How do the roots look? Granted - this is aeroponics so i'm probably wrong, but if your pH is rising that much that quickly in some hydro system - it could be pythium, and you'd better start treating with H2O2 as a safegaurd immediately. My plants when healthy take 2 days to go from a pH of 5.7 -> 6.2 when the conditions are right. Another 1.5/2 days and the pH is outside the acceptable range, so i'll adjust every 2 days to keep them happy. When I got root-rot, the pH shot up to 6.5+ after 1.5 days!

If it's not a bacterial problem, the plants could simply be under-fed. Since they are munching the nutes you give them too rapidly because the EC is too low, this causes the pH to rise quicker than normal. If your EC is at 0.6, this might well be the problem.

Also - if you are using something to lower the pH that is pretty weak, then you'll need to re-adjust pretty regularly.

[livewire420]

ph can go up from plants drinking water too

[growDaddy]

It's not that the ph goes up too fast, it's that when I first put the water in, if I use tap water the ph is really high. If I use ph-down to get the ph right, the ppm goes up really high before even putting in nutes. I use Envy A and B. I let the tap water sit outside in a gal container for a day or so. I have done the same thing several times, putting a gal of tap water in a milk jug, letting it sit outside for a day or two. The first time this worked fine, the ph came down. The next two or three times I let the water sit outside and the ph didn't come down, Yesterday, the water I sit outside the day before looked fine, the ph came down as expected, but why doesn't this not happen every time? I'm so confused

[lucysd]

depending on where you live depends on the water quality

as well as fluctuations in water quality, fer example if you live in new york you have some pretty good tap water they have a great proccesing plant fer water or so ive read

in south florida, the main water supply is from the biscayne aquifer, and also the florida aquifer,

now if ya live near the great lakes or okeechobee er some shit like that,
you might get yer water from there,

everytime it rains the tap water is slightly affected(or really affected)
depending on where you live, like since in south fla we get our water from the aquifer which has to pass through coral and limestone , rainwater dont affect us as much as lets say ppl who get there shit from the great lakes or some shit

also the seasons affect it tooo

maybe you should get a 1500ppm calibration solution?

oooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

if yer grow aint that big, stock up on gallon jugs or five gallon jugs and go refill them at yer grocerystore water machine, thats ro water, the ppm of that shit starts at zero i think,

so the surro9unding environmental conditons affect yer water, plus if its too hot the water evaporates, leaving more solids in the water thus causeing the ph and ppms to be affected

no good if ppm high even before adding nutes, no good, yer gonna hafto flush yer shit soon if thats the case hehehe
i hope yer not using coco hehehehehehe
let us know more about yer set up and we can help you out more

[dukeOfPrunes]

Yeh - check the EC/ppm and pH of the water before putting anything in it and tell us what you get.

You say that it's a 10Gallon res - so you must be putting a shit-load of pH down in it to raise the ppm's. I've never drove the EC up with pH up/down and I only use a 2.5 gallon bubbler res. I'm lucky though - my water is EC ~0 and pH of 7.0 straight out the tap.

RO water might have to be an option. At least then you get a 'clean-slate' to work from.

edit: I would also put the nutes in first - then change the pH. Nutes are usually acidic anyway, so this should drive your pH down somewhat. Test this to see if your nutes will lower the pH. Get a gallon container of water, check the pH, then add nutes and check again. You might find that you'll be using a lot less pH down after adding feed, and this will subsequently have less of an effect on the EC/ppm.

[growDaddy]

I take the ph as soon as I get the tap water and the ph is really off the chart before adding anything.

[dukeOfPrunes]

Specifically. What is the pH?
If you say it's off the chart, then i'd seriously advise RO/distilled water. Basically - anything but what you're using....

[growDaddy]

My ph tester is not specific enough to give you a real number, but it's somewhere around 8.0

[Lookyhere]

Your ph tester might be a piece of shit. With tons on fluctuations also it may be way off in calibration. A reverse osmosis thingy is really cool. I think we spent between $100-$150 for it. If you are going to stay in this hobby for awhile, it may be worth it for you to get one. The water tasted great also. We also used the grocery store water like Lucy said. If your ph tester doesn't give you an exact #, I would venture to say that it is no good. Good luck.

Lucy, I didn't know you knew all out So. FL. I wouldn't be surprised at all if we already knew each other or at least had run into one another. Lol

[lucysd]

damn mr prune jeez zero ec and ph of seven right outta the tap

dont mean to offend but what region of the us is that?

honestly, yeah they said to get a ro machine for a buck or a buck fifty

fuck that

buy a hana ec ph meter two in one instead

THATS WAY MORE IMPORTANTimho

i got a milwuakee,

and my milwaukee tester makes me feel like eve on mothers day...
confused

but before i use it each time i calibrate it just to be safe

i hate it but it works for now

it cost me twenty fuck that

i shoulda not pussed around and got a good one

i wouldnt treat yer water till after it was nuted

about the 6.0 and up fer ph, i dont think thats right fer hydro, i think its a myth

imho

when the home hobbyists began their hydro quest, theyk were only able to get the strips to test pool ph,

and ya know what the funny thing is , those strips didnt got below 6

sooooooo that became the accepted cause it worked

i really dont think its the best

wheres the nute uptake chart anyways ?
didnt someone put them up?

i like 5.8 hehehehehehehehehehe

but i read if you slightly adjust the ph by one or two points at each feeding, you make different nutrients more readily available for uptake by the plant thus promoting further growth spurts

was scientia robbed of his thread by grow daddy? hehehehehehehehe
whats yer medium grodad?

[Lookyhere]

When I first started hydro 15 years ago I had a good ph tester. I got my friend into it and he lived in Texas and he had a good tester. We both read everywhere that 5.8 was the perfect PH. We both did that for a long time. After awhile I raised it little by little with successive grows. I found that I had better results with a higher ph than 5.8. I passed this onto my friend and he came to the same conclusion. I had several friends that also gew in Denver and I passed it onto them as well. They we sceptical because of everything they had read. The people that raised their solutions by a couple of points, did find that they got better results. When I moved down to Texas my friend that I had down there and I started up a joint operation. We both already had come to our conclusions and stuck with a slightly higher ph and it never failed us. JME

[dukeOfPrunes]

Originally Posted by lucysd

damn mr prune jeez zero ec and ph of seven right outta the tap

dont mean to offend but what region of the us is that?

Not in the USA mate...... And the EC is actually 0.06 - but that's not gonna make any difference. For all intents and purposes, it's 0.

Originally Posted by lucysd

about the 6.0 and up fer ph, i dont think thats right fer hydro, i think its a myth

Yeah - keep it between 5.5 and 6.2 for hydro i'd say. 6.5 is pushing it. Best results at 5.8 imo.

[lucysd]

Yeah - keep it between 5.5 and 6.2 for hydro i'd say. 6.5 is pushing it. Best results at 5.8 imo.[/quote]
thanks i love that chart hehehehehehehe

yup five point eight is my choice as well hehehehe

true looky

other factors include your buffering ability of the nutes, yer medium
and how fast yer plants drink the water

or if its an automated system

now since i got my meter , im changing it slightly each water to a good effect

ya know what they say variety is the spice of life

and the

SPICE MUST FLOW

hehee

[Lookyhere]

I just found 6.2 to be better. For me, the less I messed with the adjusting of the PH the better results I got. The more I played around with it trying to adjust it to a 5.8 the more little deficiencies I got. I would get little micronutrient or trace element deficiencies by altering the ph more to a 5.8. I still got pretty good results with 5.8, but a lot more often got the little signs of a micro deficiency than I got with a slightly higher ph.

[dukeOfPrunes]

Originally Posted by Lookyhere

I just found 6.2 to be better. For me, the less I messed with the adjusting of the PH the better results I got. The more I played around with it trying to adjust it to a 5.8 the more little deficiencies I got. I would get little micronutrient or trace element deficiencies by altering the ph more to a 5.8. I still got pretty good results with 5.8, but a lot more often got the little signs of a micro deficiency than I got with a slightly higher ph.

That's a good point too actually - but I noticed this behaviour more in flowering than in veg. For veg, I like to let it drift to 6.2 and pH-down it to 5.8 pretty much straight away.

In flower, i'll let it sit higher for longer.

[lucysd]

Originally Posted by Lookyhere

I just found 6.2 to be better. For me, the less I messed with the adjusting of the PH the better results I got. The more I played around with it trying to adjust it to a 5.8 the more little deficiencies I got. I would get little micronutrient or trace element deficiencies by altering the ph more to a 5.8. I still got pretty good results with 5.8, but a lot more often got the little signs of a micro deficiency than I got with a slightly higher ph.

hehe generally i like to slowly let it drift sometimes

im gonna try half a little higher than 5.8 and the other half five .8 on the next run being that they are all clones from the same mother

we shall see

cause really

the only reason i adjust the ph like that mainly

(even though my log dont look to shabby)

is cause it gives me somthing to do
i aint got no life haha

so when i find something that makes my life easire and saves time
i gotta find something else to complicate so im not sitting arround borred outta my mind

i guess i like to fidget hehe

[growDaddy]

Originally Posted by lucysd

was scientia robbed of his thread by grow daddy? hehehehehehehehe
whats yer medium grodad?

I grow in h2o using envy A and B nutes.

Sorry scientia, if I did something wrong, I'm sorry

[Hash_Man]

If your using any products with Beneficials, they tend to keep raising pH
and I think hydrogaurd has some of those properties doesn't say on the container, trade secret I guess.